The RESISTOR thread. The one ohm resistor on Magnepan high or midrange

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LesterSleepsIn

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I’m enjoying reading this thread and looking forward to your final conclusions.  :popcorn:

But I too am in the no resistor camp. They always seem to hold great promise of happy listening days to come but eventually they always disappoint. IMO, all resistors should be gathered by the truckload then fired out of canon towards Buffalo ... such was my great disapointment. Like Rollo, I had better luck with a new preamp and cables.

josh358

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Heh, Wendell Diller at Magenpan would disagree. The way he puts it is that running the speakers with no resistor is like running a speaker with a tweeter level control turned all the way up.

It's really going to depend on the acoustics of your room, of course -- if you have a dead room, you'll want to run without a resistor. The smaller resistor would be for an average room and the larger one for a live one. The only "right" here is what sounds right in your room.

Elizabeth

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I’m enjoying reading this thread and looking forward to your final conclusions.  :popcorn:

But I too am in the no resistor camp. They always seem to hold great promise of happy listening days to come but eventually they always disappoint. IMO, all resistors should be gathered by the truckload then fired out of canon towards Buffalo ... such was my great disapointment. Like Rollo, I had better luck with a new preamp and cables.

Did you try other resistors than the ones provided? and other than one ohm? When the Magnepan resistor is too big, it really does make the speakers dull and heavy sounding. The just right resistance number will bring out the lower midrange to fit perfectly with the bass IMO.
I bought a pile from Madisound of the Mundorf MOX 0.22 / 0.33 / 0.5 / 0.68 / 8? / 1.0 / 1.3 / 1.5 / 2.0 / 2.2 / 3.0 so would have a wide range to experiment with. total cost was like $40 (which in the after market wire Universe is less than chickenfeed.  The Mundorf in particular really really need the wire sticking out cleaned!)
When I used the Mundorf MOX the just right midrange seemed to be 0.5 ohms. With the Duelund it was at 0.75 ohm. (I actually bought the 0.75 because the 0.5 were sold out at the time) Until I replaced all the powercords.. Then the speakers seemed a tad brighter. Going up to the (what I had on hand) 1.3 ohm Duelund was way too much. adjusting it by adding 4.3 ohms in parallel with other Mundorfs (a 3.3 and a 1.0 in series) brought it dialed right in at one ohm.
The Duelund I just bought are in transit.
I confess I jumped the gun on buying the Duelund, so I am re-buying different values after I had changed other stuff. Lucky the Duelund Cast are still on sale.

As I wrote in another post, another big positive sound change is bypassing the multiple connections under the plate, (even leaving the fuse in use).. (which are mostly there for ease of comstruction, and NOT sound quality. Way more than some aftermarket fuse.

Elizabeth

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I am beginning to understand the real value of the resistors.
To balance the midrange to the bass panels!
Seems the best method I have found is to narrow the range of resistance by finding the 'just too much resistance. (the definitely too much right now is 1.3 ohms.) And then go as little below that as I can. So the midrange has a lot of bloom, and no dullness!

I just got some 10 ohm Duelund Cast, and adding a 10 to a 1.3 gives 1.15 ohms.
Playing Bach Six Unaccompanied Cello Suites. Sounds closer to real than with the previous 1 ohm. Just put the resistors in, (so the tens are new ,brand new) I will see how it sounds in a day or two.
Right now good.
Lucky for me the Duelund have been, and are still at 1/2 price.
I wish I could find a combo of Duelund resistors to give me 1.2 with what I now have on hand. No such luck. But playing piano also sounds pretty good. Have to play some vocals..
It is odd how changing something ELSE. like a few source powercords.. Changes which resistor value sounds the best...
A few months ago i would never have believed it if some said that. LOL

Added: well as soon as I started a Depeche Mode CD, I could tell nope too much.. The vocals are depressed 'muffled' a little. So 1.15 ohms is too much.
Replaced with a pair of 2.0 plus 2.2 ohm to give 1.05 ohm.
Voices now stand in better relation the the rest of the music.
I did not give the 1.15 enough time to break in... But I am going to use the 1.05 and keep in mind the 1.15 ohm. Still have to listen to a pile of CDs to decide.

After I use what I hope is the best setup, I may install wires inside to allow the  bypassing of the multiple connectors. Still waffling on bypassing the mid fuse. maybe, maybe not.
« Last Edit: 14 Jan 2019, 08:18 pm by Elizabeth »

Elizabeth

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Today I permanently put the handmade choke for the tweeter and the 0.75 ohm 5 watt Duelund inside the plate. Choke from fuse to near side 'out. with the resistor also solder to that end, and the resistor other end soldered to the other side of the 'out', to the wire clipped there. So the outside openings can be shorted, so zero resistance. but the choke is always in. I loved the choke on my previous 3.6 and can safely say it is a permanent fit.
Way better on the outside of the plate now. Only the midrange 10 watt resistors and the speaker wires.
Currently I am at 1.05 ohms using a 10 watt 2.0 and a ten watt 2.2 parallel to make 1.05 ohms.
The sound is very well balanced right now. Clarity, solid bass not too much!, good frequency range balance.. not too tilted to the treble (which is always my issue, and the reason for the resistors in the first place)
I may buy two more 2.2 to be able to try 1.1 ohms.??
Still trying to decide how exactly to have the wires to improve the midrange. Either just wires soldered. Which means I REALLY need to find the just right resistor setting. Or use a switch. A switch would add at least one more resistor hanging there, and add in the switch contacts.. (Bummer) or another thought is using just the plugs from XLR. the three pins would be perfect. and I could have a few set premade to change the resistance. and just plug them in.
Also, then the plugs exiting could be connected for zero resistance added.
It would be very easy to bypass the midrange fuse..... Still waffling about that idea. The speakers are now from March 23, 2018, about 10 months old. If I wait a full year...?? And by the end of two more months, I may actually be secure on which exact resistance I like best.
 
Also went back to the Pangea XL power cord on the Furman conditioner, as the home made with Furutech 28 Rhodium plugs and DH Labs wire was giving me too much bass.. (I really have to keep the bass under control, apt dweller..)
I am only writing this stuff because a few people said they like to read about what I am doing to the system.

LesterSleepsIn

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.... Or use a switch. A switch would add at least one more resistor hanging there, and add in the switch contacts..


Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhh hhhhhhh!!!!






Elizabeth

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One bad rabbit.  :thumb:

LesterSleepsIn

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One bad rabbit.  :thumb:

Aren’t they all ...

LesterSleepsIn

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I am only writing this stuff because a few people said they like to read about what I am doing to the system.

 :popcorn:

 :whip:

Elizabeth

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Took off the pair of Duelund with the choke from the 20.7 Magnepan midrange today.
I have been fooling around with refrigerator dry erase magnetic pads, under various electronics. (they seem to add to clarity, with some problems..)
Anyway, after adding another magnetic pad under the Bryston BP-26 power supply. I noticed kind of a hole in the midrange. Which I knew was caused by my added choke on the midrange of the Magnepans. Plus rather tilted to treble a bit.Also I think the choke altered the phase angle?
So using what I have on hand, I used a pair of Mundorf 10 watt 2.2ohm and 2.7ohm to get 1.21 ohms cleaned the leads, and stuck them on, mainly to alleviate the issues. Since I like most of what the magnetic pad is doing. And know I can fix the hole and tilt other ways.
I may buy some more Mundorf to play with. I did like the Duelund, the downside of the Duelund are the incredibly fragile leads, the price, .. And the long length. I may yet find the perfect resistors.. and impedence values. Notice I did go up again. as I get more clarity, which seems to also tilt to treble, I seem to need a little larger value resistance in the 20.7 midrange to compensate. Going up another tenth of an ohm...
I may also try three resistors, (two 3.3 and a 3.9 ) to see if more spare capacity helps. Easier to do at $1.89 than $55 a pop for Duleund.

Added.. Well after thinking about it, Spending zero is better than any amount. So I took apart the previous effort with a stick wrapped with multiple turns wire,(27 plus 27 yes a lot)  and redid them with just six turns times two, and changed the 2.0 plus 2.2 Duelund, to two 2.2 Duelund for a 1.1 resistance in the midrange. (previous was 1.05) Right off treble back to a bit sparkly, but now the mids are clearly more there. Broken in wire, about half as much of it, one Duelund broken in. other one new each side. Also did a better job at 'strain relief' for the Duelund resistor leads this time.
Each new fiddle, getting closer, and understanding what makes the sound 'tick'.
« Last Edit: 9 Mar 2019, 10:37 pm by Elizabeth »

Elizabeth

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Update...
Last week I went to using a pair of 2.2 ohm/2.7 ohm (giving a total impedance of 1.208 ohms)
It is odd each time I put in new resistors, they seem a bit darker. then... as they break in over a week or so, they seem to get tonally more natural)
I am now planning to go as high as 1.3 ohms next with Duelund trio of resistors.
(I remembered I have a pair of 1.3 ten watt. I may do those first?)
Up to now the most has been pairs. But I want to try a triplet set. See if any improvement in attack dynamics, etc..
I can also adjust the 1.3 ohms with a 4th parallel large impedance resistor.. 22 ohm (to give 1.227 ohms) 33ohm( to give 1.25 ohms) 47 ohm(to give 1.265 ohm) and 56 ohm(to give 1.271  two Mundorf in series 47 plus 56 to give 1.284) Mundorf (temporary) to find the sweet spot.
I think the difference using a cheaper Mundorf as a 4th added resistor will be a very minor insult to the sound. (if I do the single ten watt 1.3, the added Mundorf might be a lot more noticeable? But might give me more to experience in the way they interact sound wise.)
From the first post of this series, when I was wanting a 0.5 ohm... and gradually moving upward to one, then 1.1 then 1.2 and planning on 1.3 has been an adventure.
Some of the info probably will not be suitable for other 20.7 owners. Since I have been working on the AC power and 'leaning out' the final sound from that end. Others may find a lower value of resistor is better for their pile of equipment. As I mentioned before. the better way would be to experiment with cheaper sets of resistors, like the MOX Mundorf even in twice the resistance parallel sets... to get a good idea and some experience of just what the resistors DO... Then go for some upscale like the Duelund. (plus the Mundorf can be plugged right in, since the leads are robust, where the Duelund you really must figure out a way to 'carry' the weight, so the Duelund is NOT hanging by the leads from the back of the 20.7 or 3.7i speakers...)
Anyway, this is the update for now.

Endo2112

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It maybe a bit late for your particular quest, but when I was flipping resistors, I ended up with the Path Audio over the Duelands so you may want to give them a go as well once you decide on a resistance level.

Cheers,

Elizabeth

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It maybe a bit late for your particular quest, but when I was flipping resistors, I ended up with the Path Audio over the Duelands so you may want to give them a go as well once you decide on a resistance level.

Cheers,
Thanks!  :thumb: Never too late... I may give them a try... After I finish puttering around with the Duelund

Added well I took a  previous set and disconnected one of the two resistors and got back to a single resistor 1.3 ohm. Stuck that on, Easy since it was already on the carrier, and at least partially broken in!
No comment until I have listened for a few days...

ADDED: Ok the 1.3 ohm seems a bit too much. (the bass is hearable vibrating in the bathroom ..bad sign)
The number one new thing I learned is the difference between using a single resistor, the 1.3 Duelund Cast, and a pair of double value resistors. The previous 2.7 plus 2.2 (1.208 ohms) The big improvement I have not noticed until the immediate swap in (To the 1.208 pair from the 1.3 single) of a broken in pair.. Nicer vocals warmer. just more body to Joni Mitchell's voice. listening to the same CD...
My internal guess/'theory' sez' to me it is the resistor leads.. Thin and fragile having two just offers a better transfer of power. But that is a guess, not a certainty.

Clearly the 1.3 was a little bit too high a value for MY system and speakers. So the experiment was worth that to know too.
I can make a 3 resistor set of either 1.251 ohm or 1.275 ohm. or do a triple resistor 1.3 and add another adjusting resistor to make it switchable (more easily) from 1.251 to 1.275
I am getting closer to Nirvana...
« Last Edit: 12 Apr 2019, 01:15 am by Elizabeth »

Elizabeth

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Today used the frame from the previous 1.3 taking off the 10 ohm/1.3 ohm pair. Put on three resistors sets 3.9 + 3.9 +3.5 for a total of 1.252 ohms But Wait I also added a Mundorf 56 ohm trimmer. So the current impedance is 1.225 ohms...
(as much to see what it sound like with an extra Mundorf....)
Well I am surprised. a bit tilted to the treble first listen. But I have not been listening to any all new resistors for a long time. This new group is all new.
The stuff hanging off the wire is getting kind of heavy...
I also did NOT solder anything. I have too many possible variable to solder it up. So all it has are those screw on wire nuts. (blue size)
I may switch to (3) 3.9 resistors and use a smaller value trim resistor. I may change the trim. I may go to a Path audio resistor for the trim...

added: listening the 'attack' is better. better low level detail. (like the vibrato played on a violin is clearer than before in same performance..)
So already it seems 3 (well actually 4) are better than two.

Added I cannot resist (pun) removing the extra trim resistor. So now at 1.251 ohms.. For Classical great.. Too early in the day to play some Rock... Which is where any too heavy bass will show itself. (I already cannot play stuff like Madonna any time.. The bass is headphone only...)
Most classic Rock is pretty bass shy compared to later Rock. So playing Cream, Led Zep, Doors.. never a problem. My self imposed limit is 'can I hear it thrumming in the bathroom?' If so, too much bass. ('cuz if I can hear it there, so can my neighbors...) The 1.3 ohm resistors were just there. not terrible bad, but too much for me to feel happy. Aside from the usual balancing act, I have this self imposed bass limit.
So if you LIKE all the bass you can get, my resistor levels are not going to make you happy.. Adding a few more tenths of a ohm would probably be better for more upper and midbass...
« Last Edit: 14 Apr 2019, 03:31 pm by Elizabeth »

Elizabeth

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Had the 1.25 Duelund in for awhile.
Received a pile of the Path Audio resistors. and could not resist sticking some in.
Easier to do, since the Path do not seem to require a carrier, and can just hang. So I quicky stuck a pair of 2.5 ohm together (giving the same 1.25 ohms and the previous Duelund) for each side with those screw on nuts. adding a short lead (the leads on the Path Audio are rather short, and NOT long enough to just go in the 20.7 back plate as is)...Also carelessly placing the resistor ground to the negative speaker wires.** And this way of doing it this leaves OFF the small coils I made added to the Duelund carriers.

Not a review yet. just to  say immediate sound: no bad stuff. I HAD READ the Path take over 100 hours to break in. This 'could' have been a terrible 100 hours, or not. NOT bad, I can happily say. The sound is pretty good. (Some tweak and cables sound horrible to start) The only thing I can say is noticed one moment on a climax, a very slightly steely sound to upper range piano notes in the first ten minutes of use... Otherwise decent liquid sound. Piano is not my choice for checking detail... So maybe in a few days I can report more. Just wanted to say sounds OK, acceptably natural right off. If it gets a lot better. woo hoo!
(are they better than Duelund? way to early to say.  They ARE easier to use.)
Added; Few hours. listening to Stop Making Sense Talking Heads. Obvious there is a veil in front of vocals (compared to broken in Duelund.) this probably will go away as the Path Audio resistors get broken in... (I just wanted to report it, as a known artifact of not broken in vs broken in... Just sayin'. this same effect makes the Path sound 'smoother' than the Duelund, at this time.)

** I found in my piles of junk some terminals which are a perfect slip fit over the banana ends of the speaker cables. So I can crimp the shield wires from the Path Audio resistors to those, and just slip them on the ground side banana at the speaker.

Added several hours later same day:
Well I decided I would build up the actual set I really am going for, Which is triple resistors with an additional 'trim resistor. Three 3.9 ohm Path Audio resistors, and the trim is a 39ohm. to UP the impedance to 1.258 ohm .. 
The total of four of them is heavy.. I am slightly concerned about all the weight on 19 gauge Kimber wire. But as longs as the weight does not self cut the wire off where it goes into and is screwed down, Eh.. no problem (I can always go to a larger gauge wire, as again I an NOT soldering just using screw on 'wiring nuts' The first bunches of Duelund I was soldering and soon realized maybe solder after I am really really solidly set on the values.. but not now!).
First impression, again, a little better attack. Seems three is a magic number. With a slightly higher resistance, slightly darker tone, but very small difference. not a problem. 
Until they are broken in, no point speculating.
I swapped them out since these are the ones I really want. So why not just put them in right off.
(I may put the other set of Path Audio I just took out into the treble, though i DID solder the treble Duelund one in.. Soldering is a PITA when in a big hurry to finish BEFORE I am finished. LOL
I had wanted to break in that pair on the midrange a little before trying them on the treble. But they sound decent not broken in much anyway... So I went right for the triple set today.

Added next day. Still a bit of edginess in upper mids, particularly massed violin strings. both some lack of individual detail and steely edginess. But as mentioned, 100 hour break in before I make any declarations. Just mentioning it as a history of breaking in. Otherwise sound is decent.

Aded another day: Sound is a bit forward. a little etched. If it was going to be this way forever, not good enough. But only a few days in. I also made up some of the little coils as separate so I can add them and the Path Audio will be install exactly the same way as the Duelund were. Just to be sure. Will put them on tomorrow. (I like the sunlight coming in better than doing stuff at night)
« Last Edit: 29 Apr 2019, 11:49 pm by Elizabeth »

Elizabeth

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I added the small coils. Made up just used a 1/4" dowel this time instead of 3/8" with the carrier for the Duelund.
Just cut off 3/4" and drilled holes to 'captive the wire, 6 or 7 turns of Kimber wire. Wrapped with Teflon tape for a bit of vibration control. pigtails each end.
Swapped them for the wires on the Path Audio groups.
Well sure enough, that little tiny annoying hard edge on upper midrange notes has vanished.
So... By being lazy, actual fact discovered. Now the notes are just notes..
The little choke coils added to the midrange resistor DO some good. How they are removing or blocking the small problem is???
I have no idea what they are actually causing/b;locking?. If it is something from the amp? or noise carried on the wire? Or if the are better with half on each side (as I have them) or one coil (instead of two) is enough... is just as good. (Sorry I am not going to do that experiment).

As far as the Path Audio vs Duelund. So far, the Path win the detail battle by a small margin.

Elizabeth

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I removed the post that was here, to reflect on the question posted just below about "Do I get the same results with digital as LP.
Since I own two Turntables (Kuzma Stabi StogiS Dynavector 17D3 via ARC SP-15/Rega P5 benz Glider via Threshold FET TEN phono) etc. vs Marantz S-10... Seems like a good question.
But I have not been using the turntables much of late.
However I would say the LP playback sound pretty much like the digital. Though I would add in I probably have as many CDs with spectacular sonics as LPs.
As for differences mattering in the Magnepan midrange adjustments? no. There is just as much difference between two of the SAME MEDIA as between one LP and one CD.
I do tend to play the same group of CDs when I swap something...
The differences I am focusing on are small, and even though I write about them large, they are very small, and a non audiophile would hear no differences if they were not pointed out. (At least I think so)

As for the Path Resistors. I am still breaking them in. I think to really be fair I am giving them 200 hours of playing time. which adds another week from today.
« Last Edit: 10 May 2019, 08:02 pm by Elizabeth »

rollo

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   Elizabeth do you get the same sonic result using digital source as opposed to an LP with the resistor changes ? I'm beginning to think you my be looking up the wrong tree.


charles
« Last Edit: 10 May 2019, 06:35 pm by rollo »

Elizabeth

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After 'breaking in a few more days... I have realized the PATH are better than the Duelund 'overall'.
THe Duelund are superior in the upper registers, in every way, However they also tend to accentuate the upper registers a tiny bit too much. (even for me. and I LIKE the treble a LOT) sort of accentuate the treble and leave the lower mids behind sort of thing.
Where the PATH Audio resistors are more balanced. and allmost as transparent. (and they may get MORE SO as time goes on.
Funny thing was I was about to 'damn with faint praise' the PATH Audio resistors just before rollo decided to post. His post annoyed me a bit, and after reflection on the Universe giving me a slap in the face sort of thing to 'stop daydreaming and wake up', realized it was a message "You are not finished". SO I let more time go by, realizing the PATH resistors, and the way I am using them in a group of FOUR. ((3) 3.9 ohm and a trim of (1) 39 ohm) may need more time to break in, since so many dividing up the power... And yes.. after a few more days the sound is becoming clearer.. more detail. and well balanced spectrum. And may continue to so so.. So for my experience. leaving he equipment on 24.7 and playing music at least 10 hours a day, every day.. taking so far 21 days .. that is 210 hours PLAYING.. and still I think improving daily..

So I would say the testing is almost complete. I may yet try a combo if one Duelund 3.9 and two PATH 3.9 together.. just to listen.. OR the reverse, and the trim either Duelund or PATH...
See if I can get the best of both? But in general the sound is pretty good. and miles ahead of the OEM Magnepan resistor!

In general I am satisfied.. And my actual work on the midrange resistors is done IMO.
(I am NOT going to give some sort of 'review' of the sound differences beyond what I have written so far)


I have already started planning on my next tweak project.. of wood platform supports, and roller ball etc.. All those in transit..
Splurged on 2" and 3" thick Walnut and Maple platforms .. cheapened out on the rollers. Glass lenses.. furniture feet (aka suggestion via Stereophile) glass marbles, wood balls, (The steel bearings in the Amazon suggestion to buy with the furniture feet spot on and low priced)

LesterSleepsIn

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After 'breaking in a few more days... I have realized the PATH are better than the Duelund 'overall'.
THe Duelund are superior in the upper registers, in every way, However they also tend to accentuate the upper registers a tiny bit too much. (even for me. and I LIKE the treble a LOT) sort of accentuate the treble and leave the lower mids behind sort of thing.
Where the PATH Audio resistors are more balanced. and allmost as transparent. (and they may get MORE SO as time goes on.


In general I am satisfied.. And my actual work on the midrange resistors is done IMO.
(I am NOT going to give some sort of 'review' of the sound differences beyond what I have written so far)


I have already started planning on my next tweak project.. of wood platform supports, and roller ball etc.. All those in transit.

Wow, that was some extensive research. Sounds like you’re on the right Path now. Not surprised that the Dueland tend to accentuate the upper registers a tiny bit too much, accentuate the treble and leave the lower mids behind. (I have found that most add-on resistors lean in that direction.) Happy,and a bit surprised, to hear the Path are far better than the OEM Maggie transistors.

Good on ya and looking forward to the platform and roller ball experiment.  :popcorn:

Best,
Lester