Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?

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I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #100 on: 5 Nov 2018, 09:22 pm »
[quote author

However, true timbre, touch, and texture, apparent soundstage (even in silence), and micro dynamic swings are so obvious when listening to music with, for example, Metrum, Holo, or Yggdrasil that I don't work at all to hear it. And when those characteristics are significantly reduced, it's just as obvious.
[/quote]

I could not agree more!  Even comparing low end DAC's like the Dragonfly 1.2, Emotiva Big Ego, IFI and Grant Fidelity differences were immediately noticeable.

I use Bug Head music player and HQ Player.  And they play a role in bringing out differences in DAC's. These a very detailed music players.  I also have JRiver and it is low fi in comparison and homogenizes the sound a little but differences are still readily noticeable among DAC's.


Tyson

Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #101 on: 5 Nov 2018, 09:27 pm »
I find it pretty easy to hear differences among lower end DACs, but harder and harder to hear big differences as one goes up the quality scale.

ricmon

Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #102 on: 8 Nov 2018, 05:07 pm »
To way in on this at this point is kind of redundant but when I switched in the new digital  boards (DSD capable) in my DAC it took a step forward in pleasure (that is it sounded more warm and ......analog like).  Obvious different is sound.

Ric

Captainhemo

Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #103 on: 8 Nov 2018, 06:11 pm »
To way in on this at this point is kind of redundant but when I switched in the new digital  boards (DSD capable) in my DAC it took a step forward in pleasure (that is it sounded more warm and ......analog like).  Obvious different is sound.

Ric

I recommend  subscribing to Native DSD.com,  they've  got a decent  library that is  growing  all the time. They give  tech specs / equipment used  when conversions  from  an analog master are required. Starting to get  more  DSD direct recordings as well,  can't  wait for the upcoming  Yuko Mabuchi Trio  tribute to  Miles Davis,  256 direct recording  :) Have picked up  a lbums from other  sources as well but they seem to be hit  &  miss. everything  I've purchased from these  guys has been   great.

The  Mivera Audio DACs we run are designed in DSD bybass mode... it's designed specifically for one  sample rate , DSD256 64bit/(11.2MHz). All upsampling (everything but DSD256 recordings are upsampledA)  is done pre-DACon a dedicated server connected to  the audio  LAN From there the signal is passed via  fiber to a   streamer.
very, very  easy to  tailor sound w/o  tube rolling, something  I used to really enjoy but  wasn't ovelry  impressed with the expense.

Will never  go  back

jay

Freo-1

Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #104 on: 8 Nov 2018, 09:07 pm »
Here is another potential issue with discerning deltas from one DAC to another:  The source:


Case in point:  Recently acquired a McIntosh MCT 80 to work with the McIntosh D150.  There was an immediate and noticeable improvement across the board with both CD and SACD playback.  The difference was not subtle.  It's as if the D150 was upgraded to a new improved model.  I was surprised at the improvement with regular CD playback with this combination.  SACD's really shine with this setup.


So, the lesson learned for me was that the source/transport CAN and does make a difference to the sound/performance from a DAC setup.  I used to think that the source didn't make all that much difference, but this setup has proven that to not be entirely accurate. 


For SACD, the McIntosh is passing the SACD bitstream via a special interface that connects the transport to the DAC.  It's easy to hear the difference. 

ricmon

Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #105 on: 9 Nov 2018, 04:46 pm »
I recommend  subscribing to Native DSD.com,  they've  got a decent  library that is  growing  all the time. They give  tech specs / equipment used  when conversions  from  an analog master are required. Starting to get  more  DSD direct recordings as well,  can't  wait for the upcoming  Yuko Mabuchi Trio  tribute to  Miles Davis,  256 direct recording  :) Have picked up  a lbums from other  sources as well but they seem to be hit  &  miss. everything  I've purchased from these  guys has been   great.

The  Mivera Audio DACs we run are designed in DSD bybass mode... it's designed specifically for one  sample rate , DSD256 64bit/(11.2MHz). All upsampling (everything but DSD256 recordings are upsampledA)  is done pre-DACon a dedicated server connected to  the audio  LAN From there the signal is passed via  fiber to a   streamer.
very, very  easy to  tailor sound w/o  tube rolling, something  I used to really enjoy but  wasn't ovelry  impressed with the expense.

Will never  go  back

jay

Jay I've been visiting that site since the upgrade....bought a copy Of Ben Webster's Summer Serenade and Herb Tones by Freddie Hubbard.   :thumb:

Ric

Captainhemo

Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #106 on: 9 Nov 2018, 05:09 pm »
Jay I've been visiting that site since the upgrade....bought a copy Of Ben Webster's Summer Serenade and Herb Tones by Freddie Hubbard.   :thumb:

Ric

Haven't   grabbed  those yet, didi pick up   Ben Webster's  "Gentle Ben"  a while back,  will have to  have a look  at those  as well,  thanks  :beer:

jay

mlundy57

Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #107 on: 9 Nov 2018, 05:11 pm »
A couple other sites with high quality downloads aer Blue Coast Records and AIX Records.

These two are recording companies that record in Hi-Res instead of upsampling from CD

Mike

Captainhemo

Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #108 on: 9 Nov 2018, 06:36 pm »
Never seen any upsampling  from CD at Native DSD.
And  yeah  another   thumbs up  for  Blue  Coast

rollo

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Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #109 on: 9 Nov 2018, 06:55 pm »
Here is another potential issue with discerning deltas from one DAC to another:  The source:


Case in point:  Recently acquired a McIntosh MCT 80 to work with the McIntosh D150.  There was an immediate and noticeable improvement across the board with both CD and SACD playback.  The difference was not subtle.  It's as if the D150 was upgraded to a new improved model.  I was surprised at the improvement with regular CD playback with this combination.  SACD's really shine with this setup.


So, the lesson learned for me was that the source/transport CAN and does make a difference to the sound/performance from a DAC setup.  I used to think that the source didn't make all that much difference, but this setup has proven that to not be entirely accurate. 


For SACD, the McIntosh is passing the SACD bitstream via a special interface that connects the transport to the DAC.  It's easy to hear the difference.

  The ole saying garbage IN garbage OUT holds true to ANY source. Listening to 44.1 no upsampling from a dedicated transport to DAC via Ethernet cable. The difference between SPDIF and Ethernet is huge. Same for streaming, a server [ the right one] will IMO beat ANY laptop.

charles

nc42acc

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Re: Why cant I hear a worthwhile difference with DAC's?
« Reply #110 on: 9 Nov 2018, 07:39 pm »
When you mention ethernet vs SPDIF are you talking about using a renderer at the end of an ethernet cable.

  The ole saying garbage IN garbage OUT holds true to ANY source. Listening to 44.1 no upsampling from a dedicated transport to DAC via Ethernet cable. The difference between SPDIF and Ethernet is huge. Same for streaming, a server [ the right one] will IMO beat ANY laptop.

charles