New Digital Amp Available

Ernest · « **on:** 15 Jan 2005, 07:36 pm »

My good buddy Pat DiGiacomo, who I've mentioned in posts now and then, has developed a digital amplifier using the ICE Power technology. I've auditioned various development models and they were easily as good sounding as the eAR One monoblocks that I had from Acoustic Reality. I don't know any technical details or prices, but if you are interested, please email Pat at [email protected].

Pat bascially IS Analog Research. He hand builds every product. He's not a salesman, though, just a brilliant audio designer, so I don't know if he'll ever have slick brochures or website. He's been out of the audio business for a number of years, and this is his first product since his return to the business. But he is a trustworthy fellow and stands behind his products (fixing and upgrading my DAC years after it was first released for instance).

I'm not at all involved in his business and am just posting this as a friend. Please send all inquiries to Pat.

Thanks,

Ernest

Ernest · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Jan 2005, 03:37 am »

Sorry, I meant to post this in the 2 channel forum. Can someone move it for me?

Thanks,

Ernest

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Jan 2005, 03:41 am »

Done.

I've left a copy in the digital forum as it fits well there, too.

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Jan 2005, 12:08 pm »

Ernest,

Please have Pat post details of the amp as the most effective way of sharing the word. So far this thread is little more than a tease and a lead.

Ernest · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Jan 2005, 10:45 pm »

Yeah, I see what you mean. I'll ask him to post details.

art · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 03:24 pm »

A tease? I have been called a lot of things, but that isn't one of them.

OK, I'm here. Ask away.

Pat

8thnerve · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 03:27 pm »

Quote from: art

A tease? I have been called a lot of things, but that isn't one of them.

OK, I'm here. Ask away.

Pat

Any specs, preliminary or otherwise? Power, Price, Size, etc.?

art · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 09:49 pm »

There are 2 models, one based on the 250 module, the other on the 500 module. The power ratings into 4 ohms are roughly that number, with the 8 ohm value slightly over 1/2 of that.

I put together a small text file that may answer most of your questions. Rather than clog up your forum with shameless self-promotion, I feel it would be best to send it to interested parties. I have several outside view pictures, but none of the interior yet. (I used up some favors getting the exterior ones, so I am taking it slow on interior ones. Unless you will settle for ones that are not done professionally.)

I would rather not get into direct comparisons of competing products based on the same technology. I do not play "keeping up with the Jones", so I would like that my products be judged on their merits as they stand, and not in relation to someone else's version of what I offer. I do not know what the competitors do, and I do not wish to come up with "well, mine is better because he does blah-blah, and I do yeah-yeah" nonsense in order to gain attention.

I have been building high-end products for over 20 years, and I do not enjoy the "dog eat dog" atmosphere, and extreme hyperbole that permeates high-end audio. So, yes, it is a Class D amp, it does use parts that are in other brands, and in theory, you could spend all day trying to draw comparisons to similar amps. If it is necessary for you to do that in order to evaluate it, then that is fine. I understand. But please, do not ask my opinion in such matters, as I truly do not have an opinion.

One thing that I forgot to mention in the text is that the input stage is JFET buffered. This stage comes after the input coupling transformer. While it is JFET input, and could be high impedance, the input impedance is 10K, as this is the optimal loading for the input transformer.

Thanks for your consideration.

Pat

Andrikos · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 09:55 pm »

Ok Pat, call me VERY interested.
What price range are we talking about?
Also, what's the efficiency of your amps?
Are there any appreciable real estate of heatsinks, fans etc?
Thanks,

gonefishin · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 12:57 am »

Quote from: art

I would rather not get into direct comparisons of competing products based on the same technology. I do not play "keeping up with the Jones", so I would like that my products be judged on their merits as they stand, and not in relation to someone else's version of what I offer. I do not know what the competitors do, and I do not wish to come up with "well, mine is better because he does blah-blah, and I do yeah-yeah" nonsense in order to gain attention.

How refreshing

Hopefully we'll see more of you around here...you'd fit in well

thanks,
dan

art · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 01:21 am »

You really think that I would fit in? I dunno. I'm old, irritable, short tempered, and sick of the wonderful world of telecom.

And anything made by MicroShaft.

OK, gain......a bit on the low side: 25 dB.

No heat sinks, fans, or too big to fit anywhere. The amp is 10" deep, not counting the front panel. Height is 5-3/4", including front panel, add a little more for the rubber feet. It is 17" across, 19" with the front panel.

Is there a way that you can put pictures here? Even though I have been making high-end products for a long time, this is the first product that doesn't look like an EE designed the enclosure. Because I didn't. (I am just responsible for the screw holes being in the wrong place.)

Prices.........would you guys rather that I discuss that in public, or private?? I am not familiar with your forum and its rules, so I do not want to abuse the priviledge of being able to meet you guys here.

Pat

Marbles · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 01:44 am »

To post pics, if they are not already on the net, is to upload them to the gallery section. You can start your own gallery and link the URL of the pics into a post. Use the "img" button and we will be able to see the pics in your post, if not we can click on the URL and it will take us to the pics.

This thread should really be in the Market Square section of our website.

You should probably start a new thread there if you want to post prices.

Marbles · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 01:51 am »

Quote from: art

You really think that I would fit in? I dunno. I'm old, irritable, short tempered, and sick of the wonderful world of telecom.

And anything made by MicroShaft.

...

Sounds like you not only would fit in, but that you BELONG here

mac · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 02:03 am »

Sounds like you are using the B&O Ice modules. Are you using the 'ASP' or 'A' series modules? These are class-D switching amps (not digital as the thread title indicates). Did you happen to evaluate the UcD modules? I wonder if the Ice modules justify their $1,900 premium over the UcD equivalents (based on H2O vs UcD pricing).

Hypex UcD
B&O Ice

art · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 03:34 am »

This amp uses the A series. There will be a 5 channel version using ASP series eventually.

Not sure that I understand your question about "premium".

I don't think that a UcD based amplifier from me would be much different, pricewise. The cost of the modules is just a small part of the overall price. Transformer, filter caps,and other power supply components, along with enclosures make up the bulk of the cost.

Back in '92 or so, I looked at the Overture series by National. It sounded ok, but I did not see how it would lower costs enough to bring out a very affordable amp. I did not think that there was a market for a $2500 amp based on a single IC/channel.

If I only had the foresight to put 6 or more in parallel, and put it in a really expensive enclosure.

Pat

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 04:07 am »

Ooooh! A 5-Channel version?

Now you're talking. Please do keep us posted as to availibility, etc. I'll be curious as to pricing, etc.

art · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 06:22 am »

Several guys have asked if I do any "mods" to the modules. This is one of those comparison things that I would like to avoid. Try to see this from my standpoint.

I am sure that there are companies out there using the same modules, claiming that they do all sorts of wonderful, magical, secretive things to theirs. I bet that in most cases that they do little, if anything. It is all hype, just designed to generate buzz, in order to get their product noticed. I am not into generating BS. Marketing is not my background, it is RF and microwaves. I am honest, and tend to be very blunt. I am not going to come here, or anywhere, and try to blow smoke in your faces. I would rather say "nope, totally stock", than to lead you on.

In the event that I did something tweaky to them, I darn sure would not want some guy (probably called Lars or similar) from getting ideas from me. I know that other manufacturers read these pages. The ones that I share info with, I will them personally, so that they do not have to guess. The others......I am not going to do their R&D.

So, if I do modify them somehow, consider it a little something extra thrown in as part of the package.

One thing that I will tell you, since I am an RF kind of guy......

I keep 4 different sizes/types of ferrite beads around to work on these. I have worked to keep not only radiated EMI down, but susceptibility, also. The module is placed in a shielded enclosure. (Keeps "Lars" from snooping, too!) All leads in/out of the module enclosure have some form of ferrite treatment.

As for other brands of modules, let me say this:

Yes, I have heard and worked with most of them. I believe that when I work on them, that they all sound darn near about the same. Some manufacturers that I know have tried ICEpower modules, and they hate them. They also claim that Brand X sounds much, much better.

My reply:

"Maybe my ICEpower implementation is better than yours. Did you try..............?"

Of course, they didn't.

Is it possible that I will introduce an amp using one of those other brands?

Yes, it is possible. If I do, I assure you that it will not happen unless I am satisfied that it will work as well as this one. One idea rattling around would be to use Brand X for the above mentioned 5 channel version. I would only do this if it sounded right, and there were cost considerations that made it more practical to use it in a 5 channel version. When you go from 2 to 5, the costs add up very quickly.

One other item........

I offer optional wood front panels. The first wood to be available is something called wenge. I have a picture of some scrap. I will try to include that with the other pictures that I have.

Pat

art · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 06:36 am »

They can be seen on page 36.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=492

I believe that I copied the link location properly. I'm sure someone will tell me if I screwed up.

Pat

mcgsxr · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 11:52 am »

You did copy that just fine.

Nice straightforward information that you provide, as others have suggested, I think you will like it around here.

For those not wanting to click the link, here is the scrap of wood in question...

mdconnelly · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 06:42 pm »

Pat,

I was on the verge of getting my hands on an iceH2o amp to try in my system when I realized that it's 10k input impedance requirement is at odds with my AR SP9 preamp that wants to see a far higher impedance. I understand that this low input impedance is integral to the ice amp modules.

Is that also true in your design? Can you provide more info about your amps?