High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex

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Genez

Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #60 on: 14 Sep 2019, 08:13 pm »
Heat treatment and cryo treatment can sort of achieve the same thing in terms of stress relief in a metallic crystal structure. The creation of springs is a high deformation process, leaving a huge amount of residual stresses in the material. This isn't always a bad thing, as that can in theory harden the material. However, hardening also typically means more brittle, so it's a tradeoff that you must weigh. (side note: the popular "quenching" process also does something similar, most notably for steels)

For the purposes of this post, we will assume that the majority of the residual stresses are contained within the grain boundaries. In simplified terms, the crystallographic misalignment between grains is undesired, as if a chasm has opened up between them. The chasm is a mix of empty space and "broken" unaligned material.

Relieving said stress can be done in multiple ways, and this is where the manufacturers tend to play a bit to find the balance between strength and ductility (and cost). I'm grossly simplifying things, but heat treatment is like making the sides of the grains grow and closing the chasm gap. Cryo treatment is like having the unordered stuff in the chasm reform itself into little island that help bridge the gap. Either way, you're reducing the apparent chasm between the grains. There's lots more to it than that, but we'll leave it here for now. I am not offering any comment on how this translates to sound.

That was good.  Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Genez

Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #61 on: 14 Sep 2019, 08:20 pm »
I understand contact resistance vs. wire. I guess I don't see the home environment as necessitating Rhodium-level protection. I guess I'm just a (as close to as possible) bare copper kind of guy.

Copper too quickly oxidizes...  Its the nemesis of the copper advantage.

Elizabeth

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #62 on: 14 Sep 2019, 10:10 pm »
I understand contact resistance vs. wire. I guess I don't see the home environment as necessitating Rhodium-level protection. I guess I'm just a (as close to as possible) bare copper kind of guy.

The use of Rhodium is more sound of the music quality than any other reason to use a rhodium AC duplex or AC plug with Rhodium plating.
The Furutech GTXD Gold and GTX-D Rhodium are identical in every way except the final plating on the blades.
THe gold does sound warmer, and thicker. The rhodium clearer more detail.
I had purchased a total of 17 Furutech duplex, over a few months. I actually replaced a few original Gold to Rhodium once I realized how much better sounding the music was with the Rhodium in the AC path.
For folks who cannot accept power cords making a difference, The Rhodium plating making a major difference claim must be bewildering. 
The addition of the Furutech AC duplex was the best, most important tweaky sort of upgrade I have done. The improvement opened new vistas...

thorman

Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #63 on: 15 Sep 2019, 12:47 am »
 Well said Elizabeth........You took the words right out of my mouth.........

dflee

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #64 on: 15 Sep 2019, 01:17 am »
I'd be more than happy to take the old stuff off your hands Elizabeth.
It's gotta be better than the stuff I got now.
Has your place got ground fault wire? I have an older home w/ just the dual wire
and it is one thick wire for each + and -.
Does it take three wires to hear differences in plugs or does it work just as well
with the old wiring?

Don

Genez

Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #65 on: 15 Sep 2019, 01:29 am »


I only recently became interested in the Furutech AC duplex.    Because I discovered that the typical Audiophile AC outlets can cause damage for your power cords if not careful.

Here is what can happen...   Recently there was many days of thunder storms where I live in Georgia.  That meant I had to unplug my power conditioner from the wall before going to work, or when I was home and it began storming.  Over the last few weeks it was happening quite frequently. Then I noticed.  The Audience powercon power cable that connected to my power conditioner revealed a defect that should not be there!   The tight fitting AC outlet from frequent removals and plugging back in, had scraped off the rhodium plating of the cord's plug. Bare copper was being seen.  I contacted Audience, and they exchanged the cord for a small fee.  The new cord was even a little longer than the first.   Enuf said.  Now I do not unplug and depend upon the special on off switch on the conditioner.   Just the same it made me aware. 

Then I received an ad for a Furutech Rhodium duplex.  Its stated that the plug prong clamping system is engineered not to scrape off the plating like the typical audiophile AC sockets can cause.  Now,  suddenly... I am considering taking the plunge.  Before than, the Furutech appeared to be a gilded Lilly to my thinking.  Here is a blurb of the data from Furutech:


Furutech’s intense engineering scrutiny has resulted in an industry-first, a technique allowing the company to use special Furutech 24k gold- or rhodium-plated a (Alpha) pure copper conductors strengthened and sprung by Furutech's innovative nonmagnetic Stainless Steel Conductor Spring System that keeps a firm grip yet won’t damage male connector blades or their plated surfaces.

 

Big Red Machine

Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #66 on: 15 Sep 2019, 11:48 am »

The use of Rhodium is more sound of the music quality than any other reason to use a rhodium AC duplex or AC plug with Rhodium plating.
The Furutech GTXD Gold and GTX-D Rhodium are identical in every way except the final plating on the blades.
THe gold does sound warmer, and thicker. The rhodium clearer more detail.
I had purchased a total of 17 Furutech duplex, over a few months. I actually replaced a few original Gold to Rhodium once I realized how much better sounding the music was with the Rhodium in the AC path.
For folks who cannot accept power cords making a difference, The Rhodium plating making a major difference claim must be bewildering. 
The addition of the Furutech AC duplex was the best, most important tweaky sort of upgrade I have done. The improvement opened new vistas...

Agree. I tried to have one gold and one rhodium and in the last room, a silver, outlet so I could adjust if needed depending on system synergy.

I'm getting older and prefer the gold these days.

Elizabeth

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #67 on: 15 Sep 2019, 12:34 pm »
About the Furutech design.. One reason I went with Furutech is they designed the duplex 'from scratch' to be a high end outlet. Nearly all the others take a common outlet and 'fix it up' somehow. (the other reason was they happened to be on sale, )
The Furutech as mentioned does not scratch the blades of the plugs!. Which all other pinching type (standard design) do scratch the blades with repeated insertions and removals. there IS a downside.. and that is Furutech duplex do not have a 'grip of death'. they have only moderate grip. on the other hand, Furutech have full across the blade surface contact, where the 'grip of death' type are gripping really hard only on one small contact area of the inserted blade.
(the only better design could be if a company designed a duplex which was lax on insertion,and then when you flip a lever would grip the plug in the vise like grip. Removal, flip lever and plug can fall out easy. hey you guys designing duplex...).

As for 'liking he sound of the gold Furutech.. One other way to add some warmth to the sound is add some form of Rosewood under a few bits of gear. Brazilian Rosewood is illegal to buy, but many other really equal types of the Dalbergia family can be bought from exotic wood turning hobby sites. Just stick some bits of the wood under a few components.

Genez

Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #68 on: 15 Sep 2019, 03:04 pm »
(the only better design could be if a company designed a duplex which was lax on insertion,and then when you flip a lever would grip the plug in the vise like grip. Removal, flip lever and plug can fall out easy. hey you guys designing duplex...).

Agreed!    The ideas I came up with would be too dangerous. ;)

Elizabeth

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #69 on: 15 Sep 2019, 05:02 pm »
I would add the lever for gripping the prongs would also cut or apply the current. So no one could insert a plug, and ignore the lever to tighten it up.

Genez

Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #70 on: 15 Sep 2019, 05:59 pm »
Sounds like a bit too much over kill.  And,  the expense of such a design would probably place it in the rarefied playing field of only millionaires....  Just clamping should suffice.  The clamping would make it near air tight.  Otherwise, it would be like a regular "sloppy" AC inlet for normal use.

I would like to see something for the many hard working serious audiophiles who suffer from budget-tight-is.

DaveC113

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #71 on: 15 Sep 2019, 06:28 pm »
One thing to keep in mind, rhodium sounds very different depending on what the base material is. I don't particularly like it over brass or bronze but it's great over pure copper. You might be better off with gold over brass or bronze. The quality of the plating matters too, not all are equal! Furutech in particular has excellent plating quality and their rhodium plated alpha-copper parts are among the best on the market imo.

I agree with Genez about scratching the plating off, the worst for this is hospital grade receptacles... these are usually built on heavy-duty chassis and have very high clamping force, these will leave deep gauges in your male prongs, and if you just spent $$$ on rhodium plated pure copper plugs it's gonna be a downer when the outlet carves a trench in it.

I've sold hundreds of GTX NCF receptacles and pretty much 100% of folks think it's the best $ they've spent on their system, despite the fact the receptacle it's self is priced insanely high. I burn-in the receptacles for free, imo this is important if you don't want to have a system that sounds randomly different for 4-6 weeks. Even with burn-in you'll gt some of these effects but they are reduced in magnitude and don't last as long.


rollo

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #72 on: 17 Oct 2019, 04:42 pm »
One thing to keep in mind, rhodium sounds very different depending on what the base material is. I don't particularly like it over brass or bronze but it's great over pure copper. You might be better off with gold over brass or bronze. The quality of the plating matters too, not all are equal! Furutech in particular has excellent plating quality and their rhodium plated alpha-copper parts are among the best on the market imo.

I agree with Genez about scratching the plating off, the worst for this is hospital grade receptacles... these are usually built on heavy-duty chassis and have very high clamping force, these will leave deep gauges in your male prongs, and if you just spent $$$ on rhodium plated pure copper plugs it's gonna be a downer when the outlet carves a trench in it.

I've sold hundreds of GTX NCF receptacles and pretty much 100% of folks think it's the best $ they've spent on their system, despite the fact the receptacle it's self is priced insanely high. I burn-in the receptacles for free, imo this is important if you don't want to have a system that sounds randomly different for 4-6 weeks. Even with burn-in you'll gt some of these effects but they are reduced in magnitude and don't last as long.

  Dave if I may ask what do you burn in with ? Thanks.


charles

AngeloVRA

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #73 on: 12 Mar 2020, 05:31 am »
I decided the next thing to upgrade would be receptacles. After some research, I went with all Furutech GTX-D. Some Gold plated, some NCF Rhodium type. MY basis for this was the soon to be prices all going up for any and maybe all imports, plus the Furutech were on sale. (all told I save 31% off retail)
I replaced every Duplex connected to or in my system. Including all in both power conditioners. (in the Furman, moving the duplex piggybacked filters to the Furutech duplex.
Later I replaced two Gold ones with Rhodium, as I discovered just how much better sounding the Rhodium are, particularly from the wall, and for amps and preamps. Sources , for me, generally either sound better with the Gold duplex, or no difference that matters in how they sound.

(All of my powercords are Pangea, with gold plated plug parts, aside from the (now) Furutech '28' Rhodium plugs at the wall for my extension cords. The Rhodium take longer to sound good. But when they are broken in, they are better than the Gold in many areas. (the main not broken in effect is lean sounding with the Rhodium, alternating from normal, then lean, then way too much bass, back and forth, Until the Rhodium settles down, Others did say this roller coaster happens, but I had to experience it to believe it.)

I started with a GTX-D Gold in the 20 amp wall outlet, to my old Wattgate brass plugs. and a few other duplex. I put both a Gold And a Rhodium duplex at the ends of the 32 foot ,and 37 foot extensions. from the 20 amp wall AC to compare them two types at the PC and the amp. Quickly it was obvious the Rhodium GTX NCF was better at the amp, and to the Furman REF20i conditioner. The PS audio P-600 seems better on the Gold. Sources sound better using the Gold GTX. Later i swapped th Gold to a Rhodium, and added Rhodium Furutech Edison plugs Used the Furutech '28 series plugs in place of the Wattgate brass plugs at the wall.

Took awhile to find to the preamps sound better on the Rhodium. The Rhodium is cleaner, 'cleaner' but maybe more lean, more 'aggressive' than the Gold. (since no Gold Furutech has the NCF material added to it, I don't know what part that material plays) The Gold is lush but fuzzy sloppy and less clear sounding (only compared to the Rhodium. compared to bronze or brass duplex, they both are miles ahead.) I also made two power cord using the same wire, (Quad twist 12 gauge Teflon 600V silver plated copper MilSpec wire. The same wire in my long extension cords from the wall) one with Wattgate plugs, Brass, one with Furutech Rhodium. The Furutech plug one was vastly better sounding than the one with the brass parts. So much so the brass plug on I consider (now) useless. (And I used to like them. Not anymore! the jump up is that big).
 I am pleased wit the improvement. I can say the ability to hear Rock lyrics is vastly improved. Way more like using earphones! So the increase in clarity is really the best reason and validates the expenditure. Also the use of a fancy tube buffer I so cherished is no longer needed. It still makes a tiny difference. but no nearly as much as before the Furutech duplex update..

I cannot say anything about Oyaide, or other brands. Since I never went with them. For most of the other  non-Japanese sorts of high end duplex, they all basically use a regular duplex off the shelf and 'fix' them up in some ways. (Oyaide also makes from their own design, from scratch, but I decided to stick to one brand. Furutech.) So I skipped all the 'fixed up' stuff. And skipped Oyaide mainly due to it  not having the Furutech pure copper with a unique clamping system, The Oyaide uses Phosphor Bronze with various plating. the added types of plating I also though would be too confusing to make decisions. So I stuck with just the two, Gold and Rhodium plating over pure copper.

Hi Elizabeth,

Did you use the whole GTX-D NCF R set with the GTX wall plate and the 105 NCF cover?
Were you able to get the opportunity to listen to it with and without the wall plate + NCF cover?

AngeloVRA

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #74 on: 12 Mar 2020, 05:39 am »

The use of Rhodium is more sound of the music quality than any other reason to use a rhodium AC duplex or AC plug with Rhodium plating.
The Furutech GTXD Gold and GTX-D Rhodium are identical in every way except the final plating on the blades.
THe gold does sound warmer, and thicker. The rhodium clearer more detail.
I had purchased a total of 17 Furutech duplex, over a few months. I actually replaced a few original Gold to Rhodium once I realized how much better sounding the music was with the Rhodium in the AC path.
For folks who cannot accept power cords making a difference, The Rhodium plating making a major difference claim must be bewildering. 
The addition of the Furutech AC duplex was the best, most important tweaky sort of upgrade I have done. The improvement opened new vistas...

Elizabeth,

Im curious if you matched the platings at the connection points, e.g. Rhodium outlet with Rhodium AC plug and Gold IEC with Gold IEC inlet.

Also, which components did you end up using the GTX-D gold on?
For a home theatre currently on Rhodium except for the 2 subwoofers which are still on Hubbell, would you try a Gold GTX-D outlet or Rhodium on the active subs? Dont have enough budget to buy both and try so looking for the option that would have the highest probability of "success"  :)

Thanks for any insight you can share



AudioDwebe

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #75 on: 15 Mar 2020, 09:52 pm »


Elizabeth,

The 250 hour recommendation, is that hours with stereo playing or just ten days after being installed?

Were the improvements also heard through the power conditioners?  I've asked about any potential improvements a receptacle makes when using a power conditioner on other forums and even to PS Audio and have not had a response. 

And I second the question about using the receptacle base and cover.  It doesn't make sense to me that those additions would do anything other than make the recepacle pretty to look at.

Thanks.

Elizabeth

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #76 on: 4 May 2020, 12:49 pm »
Sorry to have ignored this thread..
For teh cover etc. NO I have never tried the Furutech plate cover etc. A bit too $$$ for my tastes. (Yeah I went nuts over buying the Furutech Duplex. but not nuts enough to add in the covers, showing I am relatively poor, though not penniless)
The Furutech GTX in the wall and the several free standing distribution boxes all have 100% brass covers with some cheap Blu Tack like material on the undersides.
The plugs vary.. Most are Pangea XL which have a 100% copper blades that are gold plated. these are use with both the Rhodium Furuech duplex and Glod duplex.
I do have a few Furutech plugs. the dual plugs at the 20 Amp origin are both Rhoduim plated with a Rhodium GTX -D NCF duplex. (again the brass cover plate)
and a few Furutech plugs Rhdium with some audiophile AC wire (forgot name but remember $8ft) the name is in some post of mine around here)

If I have more money I would have bought the Furutech covers..I spent that money on all exotic wood I used under stuff....

Photon46

Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #77 on: 4 May 2020, 01:55 pm »


And I second the question about using the receptacle base and cover.  It doesn't make sense to me that those additions would do anything other than make the recepacle pretty to look at.

Thanks.

As to whether or not one choses to believe that the sort of material refinements that Furutech (and others) pursue in search of ultimate performance, let listening be your guide. That said, here is a screen shot of Furutech's product .pdf explaining what goes into their mounting plate and cover. Basically, this is further implementation of the materials that go into their top of the line NCF ac plugs.





genjamon

Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #78 on: 4 May 2020, 03:51 pm »
I have all-NCF outlets in my system.  And I have the wall plate/outlet cover installed on my wall outlet that feeds the power conditioner for the entire system.  I started out with just the NCF wall outlet, then added the wall plate/outlet cover a couple months later.  I too was skeptical it would make much difference, and certainly suspected it would be a subtle difference, smaller than the upgrade to the NCF outlet itself.  So, I didn't think it would be a good price/performance upgrade.

I was wrong.  I heard a bigger difference by adding the wall plate/outlet cover to the NCF outlet than when I went from the standard house outlet to the NCF.  Lots more subtle details.  However, I also recall hearing a bit of a shift in tone as well, which I wasn't as excited about.  Less warm/meat on the bones.  But just attributed that to further getting rid of distortion, and set about trying to find other sources of hash in my system that would bring the warmth back while retaining all the benefits of details the outlet cover/wall plate brought to the table. 

In other words, I didn't assume the wall plate/outlet cover was thinning the sound, but rather it was getting rid of distortions that were masking a thinner system sound than I thought I had.  So a more transparent window into the system's true performance is the point.   

Elizabeth

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Re: High End receptacles Furutech GTX duplex
« Reply #79 on: 4 May 2020, 06:14 pm »
Thanks genjamon. I may try the cover ttc for just the 20 ap wall Duplex. after reading your comment.
It may be awhile before I do so though, as I am just not doing anything to the system right now.