Ceramica Translam

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 7987 times.

rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4520
  • Rollo Audio Where Home demo rules
Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #20 on: 24 Sep 2018, 08:54 pm »
  You are a master speaker designer/builder, period. Have yet to hear your creations however your dedication, craftsmanship and engineering skills are very impressive.
Looks great.


charles

HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #21 on: 25 Sep 2018, 12:02 pm »
Steidl and steve1580,

The failure photo I posted was from a project by Steve Manning who frequents the htguide.com Mission Possible DIY forum.

Here is one of Steve Manning’s builds in partnership with JonMarsh. These are laminated bamboo plywood picture from page 24 of the long detailed build thread. http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?43049-Minerva-Monitor-quot-Patience-my-ass-I-m-going-to-go-build-something-quot



Steve wrote about the failure he suffered in a previous project:

“Hey Ryan ..... after I had mine crack I did a lot of research online into the issue. First, I was rather surprised by how much the BB actually moves over time, I thought it was a lot more stable. That being said, sealing it helps but will not stop it it completely. I think the biggest part is learning to work with it and not constrain the layers from moving. What I found in most cases where these projects crack and what I did myself, is we glue the baffles, backs, sides, what ever, in place across the lamination's. This "try's" to prevent the wood from moving ....... not.

If you look at say what Magico did when they used BB with the aluminum baffles and backs for their cabinets ..... they had o-rings in the baffles and backs and the two were bolted together as a unit. That way they floated independent to the wood portion of the cabinet. That way the BB could breath as needed without cracking.

This is of course all conjecture on my part, but I don't think I'm too far off.

Steve”


So restating what I read Steve saying and the opinion I have is yes “a glued joint is much stronger than the wood plys themselves” and that is exactly the issue. The baffle glued at a right angle to the laminated buildup moves most along its length and when solidly glued to the plywood or MDF stackup that movement can cause a failure. HT cOz gets it and now has in his design an air tight interface between the horizontal laminated sections and vertical baffle.

Here are a couple of pics of my last translam design, the baffle is glued using RTV with ~1/16” ~2mm clearance space all around between horizontal laminated plywood layers and vertical baffle.





Another hint/encouragement to HT cOz is I see in the renders holes I presume are for alignment. Good! Aligning the layers during the glue-up is vital unless you enjoy descending into sanding purgatory where time stands still as innumerable sanding sheets clog and sanders’ motors expire. I have tried the following alignment methods:

  • All-thread metal rods. The idea was to get both alignment and clamping. Big fail, if the alignment holes are large enough to get the plywood down the all-thread the layers do not align with sufficient tolerance. Also a builder on DIYaudio.com who did a six foot tall translam line array and left the metal rods in suffered cracks when the differences in the thermal expansion characteristics of wood vs metal happened.
  • While gluing manually align each layer and pin with brad nails. Better but makes gluing (even more) slow and tedious and is still prone to misalignment.
  • Use wood dowels in holes as in your render. Best solution I have used, my speaker shown above used ¼” dowels in ¼” holes and the layers were very well aligned after glueup. I used the short dowels one can buy precut for making doweled wood joints. I would not use long dowels, they will bind up as you try and slide the layers down them. I had extra alignment holes so when layers 1 & 2 filled a hole I moved over to the adjacent hole for layer 2 & 3. Then the original hole is available again. Or you could custom cut dowels long enough to align but short enough not to fill the hole so it remains available for the next layer. In your renders I see 8 alignment holes. In my experience 4 is plenty so you could alternate which four you use as the layers are added. Final doweling hint is if like me you only drill the alignment holes partly through the top and bottom layers check the dowel length protruding to align that top plate. I almost cracked one when the alignment dowel bottomed in its hole.


Norman,


A huge Thank You for taking the time to post these learnings on stacked laminate designs.  Also thanks for connecting the dots on Steve's build as I had not found the second thread.  Undertaking this for the first time is a huge challenge and risk but I'm willing to learn and even fail.  Thats all part of the fun for me.

Thanks,
Robert


Latest pic

These are the 6 mm dowels that I'm planning to use.  I will alternate 4 per stack with the 8 planned holes. 


Nice cross section!



HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #22 on: 29 Sep 2018, 08:10 am »
This week we've focused on getting the speaker feet ready.  The design will be finalized soon and this rendering gives a good idea of what they will look like. 




I sourced aluminum plate which is ~18mm thick, these two plates weigh 35 pounds  :o  I also found a machine shop with 5 axis machines that can complete the milling. 



Finally, Ivica started to sketch up some ideas for speaker grills.  I think this shape is pretty cool as it completes the circle, so to speak. 







We are getting closer to a complete design.

 :thumb:


jtwrace

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #23 on: 29 Sep 2018, 01:35 pm »
What's the projected cost of this build? 

HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #24 on: 29 Sep 2018, 03:27 pm »
I’m not really sure, less in India than most places. The machine work is 14 hours of estimated work, aluminium ~$100, $300 on wood but will probably need more. Not sure about CNC and paint.  This is my main entertainment so I’m pretty chill on the spend.  I wanted to push my boundaries and explore the possible in Chennai. 8)

Plus working with Ivica is awesome he is so talented and I think Ricks design is sweet.

bassivus

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #25 on: 2 Oct 2018, 12:23 pm »
What's the projected cost of this build?

I'm projecting its gonna cost 10 times less than it would be as commercial product  8)

HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #26 on: 11 Nov 2018, 12:00 pm »
It has been a while since updating the thread and progress is being made.  I've switched wood types to an Indian made Moisture Resistant HDF.  The material is very nice to machine and should make painting very easy.  It is very dense ~33% heavier than Baltic Birch.  I think it will be more stable but can also use this first build as a trial if I don't like the outcome.  This weekend I was able to have two parts test cut and glued together.  The design is complete and will be approved for cutting this week.  I should have all the parts by this weekend.  I'm very happy to have it moving into production as I've wanted to to a project like this for a long time.  I think Rick thought I was a bit nuts in the beginning  :lol:... Here are some photos.
























jtwrace

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #27 on: 11 Nov 2018, 01:27 pm »
Very nice!!  How many pieces will it take to stack and complete the cabinet?  Doweled the whole way up too?  That should make finishing so much easier too. What's your plan for finishing?  Veneer or paint?

HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #28 on: 11 Nov 2018, 01:52 pm »
Each speaker has 56 of 9 different varieties.  The CNC shop also has a spray booth and drying room so I think I will go automotive paint maybe Gun Metal Gray Metallic.  The funny thing is they are very enthusiastic to do the assembly, finish, craft metal base, and speaker grills.  Ivica would go nuts at this place with possibilities.  I don't think they understand that I'm having fun doing some of the work myself.  Although being finished in a week also has its appeal...

Each color represents a different type of part. 










HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #29 on: 11 Nov 2018, 02:00 pm »
oops

jtwrace

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #30 on: 11 Nov 2018, 02:05 pm »
Are you planning on selling these?  If not, mind sharing the cost of the CNC and finishing? 

poseidonsvoice

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3659
  • Science is not a democracy - Earl Geddes
    • 2 channel/7 channel setup
Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #31 on: 11 Nov 2018, 02:59 pm »
I like the cabinets, quite beautiful actually. Didn’t know you were in Chennai, my family’s hometown.

Best,
Anand.

HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #32 on: 11 Nov 2018, 03:07 pm »
Are you planning on selling these?  If not, mind sharing the cost of the CNC and finishing?

My biggest desire is to see if I could build what I think is a world class speaker.  Big shout out to Rick for offering the kits and Ivica for offering help with cabinet design.  Now the rest is up to me...  :popcorn: 

HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #33 on: 11 Nov 2018, 03:11 pm »
I like the cabinets, quite beautiful actually. Didn’t know you were in Chennai, my family’s hometown.

Best,
Anand.

Wow it's a small world.  I'm working here on a three year assignment with about seven months left.  My family stayed two years, so in the last year I've been occupying my time with speakers and amps etc.  Chennai is amazing for building and doing work in general.  Inside and outside of the office I'm very impressed with the people.  It does take a little time to see through hustle and bustle of India.     

A few more renderings...

White speaker matching white drivers


Back panel is machined from aluminium plate


Front baffle cut by CNC to fit drivers


Channels cut into all parts to route wires


Rear side of front baffle, attached by nuts from inside cabinet


Ivica thinks of everything... lol



bassivus

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #34 on: 11 Nov 2018, 09:18 pm »
Wow it's a small world.  I'm working here on a three year assignment with about seven months left.  My family stayed two years, so in the last year I've been occupying my time with speakers and amps etc.  Chennai is amazing for building and doing work in general.  Inside and outside of the office I'm very impressed with the people.  It does take a little time to see through hustle and bustle of India.     

A few more renderings...
\
  \
    \
Ivica thinks of everything... lol

You are welcome! :singing:

Just build them right!  :thumb:

HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #35 on: 1 Dec 2018, 04:53 pm »
Update to Translam build, I've got about half the parts now.  It's time to break out the glue  :thumb:














EdRo

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 641
Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #36 on: 29 Jan 2019, 10:39 pm »
Any more updates? I'm loving this build...

HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #37 on: 31 Jan 2019, 04:21 am »
Hey Ed thanks for the support a lot of inspiration has come from your work.

Mid bass upper cabinet without sand. Notice the CNC work on the top and bottom to creat bevels


Aquarium sand is added to voids and the top is set for glue up. This upper cabinet is stout!


Sanding of the unit is progressing and isn’t hard but takes time

Here is a shot of some of the interior CNC bevels







HT cOz

Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #38 on: 31 Jan 2019, 05:07 am »
Ok this is how I feel at this point in the build, unfinished cabinet now weighs 40kg



Wires are in more sanding needed


Tops on more sanding needed


The build stalled because I needed more dowels - took a few hours driving around the city to find a new supply


These buggers have me really stalled, waiting for the parts to arrive from USA.  India is strangely a mix of metric and imperial measures.  Finding M8 items is way harder than you would think.


You can see a nearly fully sanded cabinet and some of the inner waste parts stacked on top.  I have about 4 feet of these... hum what to do with them?


Baffle fit has been a bit challenging but will be ok, the biggest hurdle is how to drill the port hole. I've been giving it a lot of thought!


A cool shot of some of the unique parts that have gone into the build.



poseidonsvoice

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3659
  • Science is not a democracy - Earl Geddes
    • 2 channel/7 channel setup
Re: Ceramica Translam
« Reply #39 on: 31 Jan 2019, 09:47 am »
Nicely done and great progress! It's too bad I'm not there as Tamil is my native tongue and although the middle and upper class are well versed in English, that's usually not true of the blue collar worker!

Impressive!

So since your stint will be over in 7 or so months, will you be shipping those suckers back stateside?

Best,
Anand.