How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 2643 times.

twitch54

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #40 on: 12 Jan 2019, 12:34 am »
Quote from: MttBsh on  3 Sep 2018, 01:59 am To our new member Mr. Husky, with gifted curiosity.

    Suggestion: stop thinking about it, go take a nice long walk. You'll soon realize how ridiculous it is to get stressed out about strands of speaker wire.

Twitch said---
LOL, exactly !


Twitch, i think you are assuming he or others have the same sensory experience you might have.
Listeners fatigue for some of us, is a dam nasty experience, after dropping a grand on a product  :duh:
if he, or some other person hears or experiences something you don't, why not show your grace
and curiosity by letting them explain their experience in a comfortable setting,

rather then telling them to take a walk,
which is something we tell dogs to do
.
OR, if you can not existentially reconcile someones else's experience,
why not you take a walk, look at the stars, smell the earth and all her Majesty,
I think we all would benefit from taking more walks. 

Love the people Twitch

Grace Ruby

what the hell did you have to drink tonight ??????

GRACE RUBY

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 185
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #41 on: 12 Jan 2019, 12:45 am »
I am going to pretend the two pages of 'stuff' between the op question and my response does not exist.
The first point is to cover a slight misconception of "because the power flows on the outside of the wire". That is a partially correct and partially incorrect idea. There is complex math of exactly how the electromagnetic wave move in a wire.. much on the surface, but some depth which is FREQUENCY DEPENDENT, and AMPERAGE DEPENDENT, More power, lower frequency/deeper. Less power, higher frequency/more on surface.. and the deeper, slightly slower. There are also math formulas for how deep the current flows. Basically the higher the frequency, the more it stays on the surface. Why Silver plated copper works great for VIDEO and digital signals... (higher frequencies).
For audio frequencies the whole skin effect is not very important. Other factors such as signal jumping between strands, type of insulation, wire geometry, and wire purity matter more.

I would suggest some folks prefer solid core because the specific bit of wire they tried, sounds better in THEIR setup than the exact other stranded wire they tried. Now maybe if they had tried some other stranded wire, that would be even better. But as it is, they found a solution for them, in their system they like.
Naturally, many folks think they discovered a 'universal fact' and proceed to 'tell the World' the 'truth' as they discovered it. So we get notions that 'Solid is better than stranded' and others wonder WHY??? The fact is, it is all relative, and one solid wire, or another type of stranded wre.. may or may not perform better IN A SPECIFIC SYSTEM than a different wire.
I ihope this hopes in some tiny way.
[/quote)

ELIZABETH FOR PRESIDENT
its a lot to cover when considering all the effects and out comes, that was a better job then i have seen in a while.

Grace Ruby

bacobits1

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #42 on: 12 Jan 2019, 12:47 am »
I think he's really "Romy the cat"!
Oyyyy!
I need to withdraw my membership here. :thumb:

GRACE RUBY

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 185
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #43 on: 12 Jan 2019, 12:50 am »
what the hell did you have to drink tonight ??????

Twich
I don't remember saying I was drinking,
if its above your head, just ask and I will explain.
just saying be kind to young people.

Actually I just had bryers Cherry Vanilla Ice Cream
Very Nice

Hope its a beautiful evening were you are

Grace Ruby

Samoyed

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 279
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #44 on: 12 Jan 2019, 12:52 am »
Jeez if you love Honkus. 😱

twitch54

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #45 on: 12 Jan 2019, 01:04 am »
oh my, obviously what I've been drinking has not been enough ................ :scratch:

Samoyed

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 279
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #46 on: 12 Jan 2019, 01:06 am »
I just opened a lovely col solare!

S Clark

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 5728
  • measurement? We don't need no stinkin measurement
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #47 on: 12 Jan 2019, 01:24 am »
I just opened a lovely col solare!
Nice wine!  I find that it goes well with solid or multistrand. 

Delta77

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #48 on: 12 Jan 2019, 01:33 am »
Good information,
It’s definitely not easy to understand..
And that demo with the magnet and copper tubes makes it much easier to visualize..

So, a single smaller diameter conductor/wire with as little resistance/dialect (i.e. air or cotton) is the more desirable route ,, With less degrading of the signal, when compared to larger diameter conductor/wire (i.e. 10 awg stranded) with a inexpensive plastic dialect..??

I think I have some sort of grasp on the subject now..
But this is really only lesson #1 for me..

Thanks guys,
Burt..

twitch54

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #49 on: 12 Jan 2019, 01:45 am »
Burt, keep in mind Husky started this thread with regards to speaker wire. I'm kinda thinking your comment is with regards to IC's ?

Delta77

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #50 on: 12 Jan 2019, 01:58 am »
That’s a good point..
I was thinking in reference to my speaker cables..

Russell Dawkins

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #51 on: 12 Jan 2019, 02:36 am »
In the eddy current demo linked to by GRACE RUBY,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYqfiOVOVY   
I find the conclusions confusing. I think Roger Sheker, chief engineer at Audience AV, suggests that the conclusion to be drawn is that low mass conductors are thus demonstrated to be desirable. I also think low mass conductors are the way to go, but what I think is demonstrated here is that proximity of the signal carrying conductor to another conductor is a significant factor. The other conductor (which produces the eddy currents) could be the other  signal wire and/or the metal chassis or case. I know Yves Bernard André of YBA said his amplifiers (which already sounded very good) sounded still better without the metal top in place.

Finally, Audience seem to be claiming to have been the first to go with low mass solid core conductors. If I am not mistaken Denis Morecroft was earlier and took things much further, with all the conductors in his amplifiers and preamps arranged in 3D to be optimally separated and in plastic cases, as well as promoting and selling low mass wires and connectors since 1984, not to mention his innovation—the slit foil capacitor: http://www.dnm.co.uk/about.html

By the way, you might enjoy this thread on a Dutch site where Dennis Morecroft is a guest answering some questions pertinent to this topic:
https://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=91138.0

Elizabeth

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2263
  • So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #52 on: 12 Jan 2019, 03:03 am »
I like Kimber 8TC.
I plump it up and place a 1" cotton rope inside the weave...

GRACE RUBY

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 185
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #53 on: 12 Jan 2019, 04:28 am »
In the eddy current demo linked to by GRACE RUBY,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYqfiOVOVY   
I find the conclusions confusing. I think Roger Sheker, chief engineer at Audience AV, suggests that the conclusion to be drawn is that low mass conductors are thus demonstrated to be desirable. I also think low mass conductors are the way to go, but what I think is demonstrated here is that proximity of the signal carrying conductor to another conductor is a significant factor.

Finally, Audience seem to be claiming to have been the first to go with low mass solid core conductors. If I am not mistaken Denis Morecroft was earlier and took things much further, with all the conductors in his amplifiers and preamps arranged in 3D to be optimally separated and in plastic cases,

By the way, you might enjoy this thread on a Dutch site where Dennis Morecroft is a guest answering some questions pertinent to this topic:
https://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=91138.0

Professor Husky we have not high jacked your thread,,,, you may find this very enlightening.

Mr. Dawkins, most refreshing to see you grace these pages with you wit and observations, adding a Musician, Audio engineer and Music producer to this conversation cannot do anything but help.
I abbreviated your words above for space sake not abridgment of your good thoughts.

Its interesting to me that Mr. Rowland for all his bank Vault air craft alum amp housing efforts,  will or once would, sell you a see through plexiglass lid for his lovely amp creations, after so much trouble to protect them from EMF. The eddy current issues seems to announce it self as needing to breath out of the box when one looks at these design amps, wires Etc. you have mentioned above. Working current proximity to another working current or magnet has always fascinated me even in electronics class years ago. Consider the simple Neon gas light with out even a filament and yet it lights up by a gas arch.  I often dreamed of making a very well spaced apart amp up on a wooden wall board about 4 ft by 6 ft just to see and hear the out come. But i simply don't have the brains to complete such a project.

Keep the faith and Remain in light Mr. Dawkins

To Give Professor Husky who started this thread a visual on these things and their "airy designs"
to reduce eddy currents

see attached below



   

YBA cover less amps




PA4 AMP




KIMBER KABLE as Elizabeth mentions above



DNM Design Stereo Solid Core Resolution Speaker Cable


Grace Ruby

 

GRACE RUBY

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 185
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #54 on: 12 Jan 2019, 04:54 am »
Burt, keep in mind Husky started this thread with regards to speaker wire. I'm kinda thinking your comment is with regards to IC's ?

Speaker Cable
RCA inter connects
amp component parts...
all are effected by "Eddy Currents"
The mag tube video apply's to anything in proximity with metal, opposite flowing current or a magnet

Grace Ruby  :thumb:

swisstrips

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #55 on: 12 Jan 2019, 01:57 pm »
Solid core is ONE wire, not strands, inside one jacket. Stranded is multiple strands .whether they are all the same size or different thicknesses, in one jacket. (Kimber Kable boasts of multi size strands in most of their cables)
A 'variation' is where small wires each are insulated but bundled and act as one wire. That is called litz construction. It particularly removes the intermittent jumping from one strand to another (but is harder to work with when terminating!) Cardas uses Litz construction in cables.
There is some confusion as several marketing blurbs call fatter individual wires IN A MULTI STRAND 'solid'.. But that is marketing the notion that 'solid' is better more than actual reasons.
(though in power cords, it does seem to be better sounding..) ((Though the PS Audio have big solid conductors and they are not state of the art ... anymore))

OK, I think that is what I referenced / was thinking.  So basically its semantics and really, most every cable is stranded in some form it seems

Letitroll98

  • Facilitator
  • Posts: 4067
  • Too loud is just right
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #56 on: 12 Jan 2019, 02:49 pm »
OK, I think that is what I referenced / was thinking.  So basically its semantics and really, most every cable is stranded in some form it seems

Wrong, solid core is one wire.  There may be more than one solid core wire used to make a cable, but it's not in any way a stranded cable.

rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4193
  • Rollo Audio Where Home demo rules
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #57 on: 12 Jan 2019, 08:58 pm »
  The conductor is only one part of the overall design of the cable. The designer chooses a conductor for its LCR then constructs a complete design with connectors, shielding and dielectric. ALL contribute to final spec and sonics of such.
  The main goal unless designed to "Flavor" the signal is to get the heck out of the way imparting nothing to the original signal. Try a solid core 4N copper wire say 10Ga and then try multistranded equivilant to 10Ga using bare wire connections. Then tell us what ya hear easy as pie.


charles

GRACE RUBY

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 185
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #58 on: 12 Jan 2019, 09:22 pm »
So I got a wonderful pair of dyna Audios
and get the big idea of going over to the hardware store and buying a lot of solid core 14 AWG copper romex, which is what you put in a house from plug to plug when renovating,  I got 32ft divided down to 2 x16 ft lines one for each speaker, boy was this easy to hook up with out spades Etc. at first listen it is not real bad, so i decide to go full thru the break period to not feel i wasted my money and see where that leads.
Not Good.
eventually the bass did something hard to describe but i can say it hurt my ears, with some recordings the bass took on this sonic boom, while the mid range got hard and brittle, and the treble became all sibilants,
Sweet Jane by the Cowboy Junkies, really truthfully, on the word "Sweet Jane" the SSSSSSSSSSSt carried so far, the "W" in sweet was erased. the whole picture took on a sort of SSSSSSSSSSt Bang SSSSSSSSSSt Bang.

later i used the wire to install an air conditioner power line.

I put back on my Audio Quest blue speaker cable, this was a bundle as big as your thumb thick, which contained 10 solid core Teflon wrapped wires, 5 going each way, I found if i took out one wire POS and One wire Neg. it was not too too bright, I don't think they even make it any more. later cause it was too dam bright,I sold it to a guy who wanted it for single wire rca board connections


So I make my own wire---- with no jewelry
I do not think there is a thing that can be done about ALL The problems a wire has,  I am using a OFC tight cord wrap over a large teflon core which totals 15 AWG with all most zero outside dialectic except more Teflon and cotton, I use zero (no)  spades or bananas which add bass, smear etc., my treble is too sweet to off set it with spades and connectors, tho I often put them on some ones else s system to smooth/slow the treble forwardness. All on my 8 pound tri path AMP.

 I like very much the tube like sound thru a mesh wire, very smooth, ABSOLUTELY ZERO LISTENING fatigue. huge mid range again zero listening fatigue plenty of detail, but a soft fluff effect on the sound that softens the edges.
I would describe what i made as a speaker wire, to sounding like the best Cardas RCA IC but between speakers tho.

my Cardas power Amp Cord really softens the rough edges as well.
And like all cardas products you can hear that as soon as you put the cord on the amp

I sleep in front of this system all the time, it is a hypnotic enticing, luring  in sound that never hurts the ears, with many colors in the mid range and treble like water, airy but never stinging. it took years to get it 95 percent right.
for me music is tone, as in harmony and tone, music is not, just like loving a woman is not, a anal-lytical experience.


Grace Ruby   
« Last Edit: 12 Jan 2019, 10:59 pm by GRACE RUBY »

EZHusky

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 79
  • Just a Highschooler trying to get by.
Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #59 on: 12 Jan 2019, 10:12 pm »
This is kinda interesting, I'm probably going to need to look into this more myself with what y'all have told me, and I'm gonna get around to watching that video that grace showed me