How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?

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charmerci

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #20 on: 3 Sep 2018, 04:25 pm »
The theory, as I understand it, is not that solid core sounds better, it's that stranded wire can sound worse.  Multiple strands bound together carrying signal on the surface of the wire interact with each other smearing the time relationship of the signal (proximity effect), something that solid core wiring doesn't have to address.  This can be overcome by using Litz configuration where each strand is insulated individually before being woven together and the advantages of multiple small gauge wire (skin effect) can be fully realized.

IME there is a definite advantage to either solid core wire or true Litz construction (often Litz is misused) in sound quality.  There's an ease or relaxed nature to the sound that's very inviting.  However that's a broad generalization as all things are never equal in audio cables and other factors can swamp construction type.

The guiding factor in all audio cable is that wire can never, ever improve the signal, it can only degrade it.  So you're always looking for what does the least damage to the signal.


I like this answer!  :thumb:

To EZ - here's a thread that I started that will get into more into the science behind speaker wire transmission. Again, though opinions vary.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157556.0

Warning - this is always a touchy subject. Fortunately, AC is probably the best site for discussing speaker wire sound. Go to others at your own peril! (Though looking at some of the responses to you so far, you wouldn't think so. )

GRACE RUBY

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #21 on: 11 Jan 2019, 10:42 am »
that was sarcastic, i just want an answer.


WIRE YOU DOING THIS TO HIM

Hello Mr. Husky

I left this forum do to its lack of "Manic Depression Control" While the mod here has tried some what to return this thread to a semblance of adult maturity, I see no ones listening.
First rule when entering a forum is to recall, many who come here do so with some real dark psychiatric agendas and not music, and would love to see a young sincere fella like you stumble cause they have issues walking up right them selves, first thing i see when i come back to my mail box here is a huge member complaint about the lack of civility here, sadly as well, from one of the most respected and admired audio engineer's here or at 6 MOONS.

 rules of the road are- when someone is not respectful of you, ask them to leave your thread and tell them why, if they don't leave ask the mod to remove them, and have zero regret about it, you do us all a favor.

 
the answer to your question goes a few different ways at once, from the out side of the wire to the inside,
electrons speeding down the surface create a problem, a gravity wave of sorts, that slows electrons moving down the center,  "a sort of gravity resistance down the center of the wire" plus electrons explode the same way a fire cracker does, so most follow the outside of the wire, but some get caught in the gravity wave down the center, they move slower etc. then you have the dielectric wire rubber charging and discharging, but the discharge is not all back to the wire, some is lost to heat, and you can't ever get it back.
this and other factors give the wire different  speeds of electron road to travel on, this creates a whole universe of issues any sensitive person can hear. Cardas and others have addressed this different ways, and the sound change is remarkable, for which people pay $1000's of dollars to own their wire creations, me included.

Now heres the question, can you at home more cheaply duplicate some of these wire wizards efforts, tho not completely........ the answer is still a big YES.

I have been quietly doing it for years.

two sets of eyes are better then one, you get some guardian, your dad, mom, priest but some one with some adult weight and purely supportive of you, to join in with you here, and you PM me if you have not closed your AUDIO CIRCLES ACCOUNT, and pm me, cause i think you have run out of sincerity here. 

GRACE RUBY

ServerAdmin

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #22 on: 11 Jan 2019, 11:49 am »
first thing i see when i come back to my mail box here is a huge member complaint about the lack of civility here, sadly as well, from one of the most respected and admired audio engineer's here or at 6 MOONS.

Who and where is that please?

twitch54

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #23 on: 11 Jan 2019, 02:41 pm »
Suggestion: stop thinking about it, go take a nice long walk. You'll soon realize how ridiculous it is to get stressed out about strands of speaker wire.

LOL, exactly !

twitch54

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #24 on: 11 Jan 2019, 02:44 pm »
that was sarcastic, i just want an answer.

not really, you're the one trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Anyways, 'who' says it sounds better ?

Elizabeth

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #25 on: 11 Jan 2019, 03:11 pm »
I ask this because power flows on the outside of the wire, not inside. So wouldn't more strands mean more power/clarity? Why do people put solid core wire in speaker wire?
I am going to pretend the two pages of 'stuff' between the op question and my response does not exist.
The first point is to cover a slight misconception of "because the power flows on the outside of the wire". That is a partially correct and partially incorrect idea. There is complex math of exactly how the electromagnetic wave move in a wire.. much on the surface, but some depth which is FREQUENCY DEPENDENT, and AMPERAGE DEPENDENT, More power, lower frequency/deeper. Less power, higher frequency/more on surface.. and the deeper, slightly slower. There are also math formulas for how deep the current flows. Basically the higher the frequency, the more it stays on the surface. Why Silver plated copper works great for VIDEO and digital signals... (higher frequencies).
For audio frequencies the whole skin effect is not very important. Other factors such as signal jumping between strands, type of insulation, wire geometry, and wire purity matter more.

I would suggest some folks prefer solid core because the specific bit of wire they tried, sounds better in THEIR setup than the exact other stranded wire they tried. Now maybe if they had tried some other stranded wire, that would be even better. But as it is, they found a solution for them, in their system they like.
Naturally, many folks think they discovered a 'universal fact' and proceed to 'tell the World' the 'truth' as they discovered it. So we get notions that 'Solid is better than stranded' and others wonder WHY??? The fact is, it is all relative, and one solid wire, or another type of stranded wre.. may or may not perform better IN A SPECIFIC SYSTEM than a different wire.
I ihope this hopes in some tiny way.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #26 on: 11 Jan 2019, 03:52 pm »
Spot on Elizabeth!

FullRangeMan

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #27 on: 11 Jan 2019, 03:56 pm »
Maybe the OP will see some visual difference placing an oscilloscope after the solid and the stranded wire running some music from the amp.

ricmon

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #28 on: 11 Jan 2019, 03:57 pm »
I am going to pretend the two pages of 'stuff' between the op question and my response does not exist.
The first point is to cover a slight misconception of "because the power flows on the outside of the wire". That is a partially correct and partially incorrect idea. There is complex math of exactly how the electromagnetic wave move in a wire.. much on the surface, but some depth which is FREQUENCY DEPENDENT, and AMPERAGE DEPENDENT, More power, lower frequency/deeper. Less power, higher frequency/more on surface.. and the deeper, slightly slower. There are also math formulas for how deep the current flows. Basically the higher the frequency, the more it stays on the surface. Why Silver plated copper works great for VIDEO and digital signals... (higher frequencies).
For audio frequencies the whole skin effect is not very important. Other factors such as signal jumping between strands, type of insulation, wire geometry, and wire purity matter more.

I would suggest some folks prefer solid core because the specific bit of wire they tried, sounds better in THEIR setup than the exact other stranded wire they tried. Now maybe if they had tried some other stranded wire, that would be even better. But as it is, they found a solution for them, in their system they like.
Naturally, many folks think they discovered a 'universal fact' and proceed to 'tell the World' the 'truth' as they discovered it. So we get notions that 'Solid is better than stranded' and others wonder WHY??? The fact is, it is all relative, and one solid wire, or another type of stranded wre.. may or may not perform better IN A SPECIFIC SYSTEM than a different wire.
I ihope this hopes in some tiny way.

  :thumb:

Letitroll98

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #29 on: 11 Jan 2019, 04:29 pm »

I left this forum do to its lack of "Manic Depression Control" While the mod here has tried some what to return this thread to a semblance of adult maturity, I see no ones listening.
First rule when entering a forum is to recall, many who come here do so with some real dark psychiatric agendas and not music, and would love to see a young sincere fella like you stumble cause they have issues walking up right them selves,

not really, you're the one trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Anyways, 'who' says it sounds better ?

Upon occasion this circle becomes a problem child and there are discussions behind the scenes as to whether it's wise to continue on with it.  I point out that because of the quality of the membership it's one of the only places on the web where you can have a civil cable debate.  We have a firm and unbending rule that all opinions are welcome, but denigration of those posting opinions is not.  Our illustrious founder of the circle put in an addition rule, no jackass comments.  Basically snarky comments that fall short of a personal attack, but can still generate arguements, are also not allowed.  The quoted text are examples of this.  This requires a heavier hand in moderation than I'm comfortable with in other circles, but one that I feel is critical in maintaining the level of respect and civility we have all come to enjoy here at AC.  Facilitator guidelines suggest that the first step in moderation be a post saying 'cut it out'.  Consider this that post.

twitch54

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #30 on: 11 Jan 2019, 04:47 pm »
Upon occasion this circle becomes a problem child and there are discussions behind the scenes as to whether it's wise to continue on with it.  I point out that because of the quality of the membership it's one of the only places on the web where you can have a civil cable debate.  We have a firm and unbending rule that all opinions are welcome, but denigration of those posting opinions is not.  Our illustrious founder of the circle put in an addition rule, no jackass comments.  Basically snarky comments that fall short of a personal attack, but can still generate arguements, are also not allowed.  The quoted text are examples of this.  This requires a heavier hand in moderation than I'm comfortable with in other circles, but one that I feel is critical in maintaining the level of respect and civility we have all come to enjoy here at AC.  Facilitator guidelines suggest that the first step in moderation be a post saying 'cut it out'.  Consider this that post.

point taken and to that I think Elizabeth did a good job in answering my question, regardless, IMO way too many people worry more about wire than the two most important aspects of good sound ............speakers and room interaction (acoustical environment)

I know, in the end it all matters ..............

swisstrips

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #31 on: 11 Jan 2019, 05:10 pm »
Are solid core used more in say PC than interconnects or equiv?  I'm a bit confused as to what defines solid core, I mean don't most interconnects for example, consist of several wires in some sort of insulation/dielectric with multiple runs?  Solid core to me is one solid wire, no? 

So if a manufacture uses a bunch of really small ga wire that's twisted together and put in a dialectic and that forms one "wire" is that stranded?

Maybe some examples of solid core vs stranded products, be it PC, interconnects, USB etc.. would be helpful (to me)  :thumb:

Elizabeth

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #32 on: 11 Jan 2019, 05:26 pm »
Solid core is ONE wire, not strands, inside one jacket. Stranded is multiple strands .whether they are all the same size or different thicknesses, in one jacket. (Kimber Kable boasts of multi size strands in most of their cables)
A 'variation' is where small wires each are insulated but bundled and act as one wire. That is called litz construction. It particularly removes the intermittent jumping from one strand to another (but is harder to work with when terminating!) Cardas uses Litz construction in cables.
There is some confusion as several marketing blurbs call fatter individual wires IN A MULTI STRAND 'solid'.. But that is marketing the notion that 'solid' is better more than actual reasons.
(though in power cords, it does seem to be better sounding..) ((Though the PS Audio have big solid conductors and they are not state of the art ... anymore))

EZHusky

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #33 on: 11 Jan 2019, 05:55 pm »
I had no idea this was still active, looking at all the answers I got, it's clear that there's a lot that I don't know or can't understand
« Last Edit: 11 Jan 2019, 10:44 pm by EZHusky »

twitch54

Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #34 on: 11 Jan 2019, 09:27 pm »
  I'm a bit confused as to what defines solid core

agreed, there is marketing confusion as Elizabeth stated

Quote
Maybe some examples of solid core vs stranded products, be it PC, interconnects, USB etc.. would be helpful (to me)  :thumb:

here's an example of a sales pitch from 'AA'

https://mailchi.mp/audioadvisor/these-no-frills-audioquest-cables-will-transform-your-sound?e=1edef7ad2c

they talk of solid conductors preventing 'stand interaction' ?

GRACE RUBY

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #35 on: 11 Jan 2019, 10:11 pm »
I had no idea this was still active, looking at all the answers I got, it's clean that there's a lot that I don't know or can't understand

yes, and how charming it is to meet a person who can say in public "I don't understand" I am sure Edison and Einstein did it all the time, till they were the only folks who understood.

Frankly Professor Husky I don't have the brains god gave a monkey wrench, I don't care either, cause i am a nice guy and thats more important, but i do know there are folks who do wonderfully beautiful things to music, that my very nervous system tells me is a elegance and really a form of nurture , let alone my ears -when I hear certain system parts added to a system like inter connects

Often i let my senses tell me what I need to know, and wowie zowie did that work and turn out good when i met my BEAUTIFUL wife.
I also know with no small painful memory that there are folks who can not hear the difference between a wire, or a warmed up system versus a just turned on one, and these folks will slander you into the ground with "numbers, laws of this and that, and the big bang theory to make up for their sensory incompetence and at the cost of your sense of literally- Spiritual Existentialistic Validity- as a human being, boy oh boy oh boy do the hyper sensory dead, resent having their disability pointed out.

Jesus warned you.

I need to compliment a kindness here, my producer friend who left me a wonderful PM taught me the most important word I have ever found to describe a good system---ELEGANT, and elegance comes in a million forms of sound, and trying to measure it by numbers IS A GOD D-------D FOOLS ERRAND, like comparing beautiful women, none are equal, there is no equality, each one is priceless, special and unique unto them selves and you can not profane them by trying to make love to one in a laboratory.   

"Mr. Jeff Rowland, is it true none of these amps produce sound spectrum above 16,000 Hertz, yes that is exactly true." these are horrific words to some folks, don't be one of them Professor Huskey.

Prof. Husky, a good system, no mater what it does in the numbers will stone stop time and hypnotize you, heal you and make you remember you are a human, its a lover's and poets errand to measure this, only the romantic will ever get it, not a ding dong with a multi meter.

Lets please raise our glass to the many folks who have the brains to build a elegant system, but lets refill and raise our glasses to the poets adoration for beauty that gives us the ability to hear it.

(this is private -Thank you R., the birds have returned, you have done so very much good for the world, see it. know it)

I am not very smart, I do not understand the following-

Eddy currents(also called Foucault currents[1]) are loops of electrical current induced within conductors by a changing magnetic field in the conductor, due to Faraday’s law of induction. Eddy currents flow in closed loops within conductors, in planes perpendicular to the magnetic field. They can be induced within nearby stationary conductors by a time-varying magnetic field created by an AC electromagnet or transformer, for example,or by relative motion between a magnet and a nearby conductor. The magnitude of the current in a given loop is proportional to the strength of the magnetic field, the area of the loop, and the rate of change of flux, and inversely proportional to the resistivity of the material.

That the person who wrote that is a kind of beautiful poet too, goes with out saying, but i am stupid so I have to watch the movie, get your popcorn professor 
the ride is about to begin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYqfiOVOVY   


GRACE RUBY
« Last Edit: 11 Jan 2019, 11:16 pm by GRACE RUBY »

GRACE RUBY

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #36 on: 11 Jan 2019, 10:37 pm »
Who and where is that please?

Besides the fact that is a sub-sumed negative declaration of my validity I will forgive, if you are who you say you are,
you should have access  to that back door admin. perimeter.

More important I don't have that persons permission to quote them in public,
remember respect for peoples privacy.

take it easy out there, theres a lot more hurting this forum then some dope like me, even if i had told a lie.

Love the people brother and thanks for all you do

Grace Ruby     

EZHusky

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #37 on: 11 Jan 2019, 11:02 pm »
yes, and how charming it is to meet a person who can say in public "I don't understand" I am sure Edison and Einstein did it all the time, till they were the only folks who understood.

Frankly Professor Husky I don't have the brains god gave a monkey wrench, I don't care either, cause i am a nice guy and thats more important, but i do know there are folks who do wonderfully beautiful things to music, that my very nervous system tells me is a elegance and really a form of nurture , let alone my ears -when I hear certain system parts added to a system like inter connects

Often i let my senses tell me what I need to know, and wowie zowie did that work and turn out good when i met my BEAUTIFUL wife.
I also know with no small painful memory that there are folks who can not hear the difference between a wire, or a warmed up system versus a just turned on one, and these folks will slander you into the ground with "numbers, laws of this and that, and the big bang theory to make up for their sensory incompetence and at the cost of your sense of literally- Spiritual Existentialistic Validity- as a human being, boy oh boy oh boy do the hyper sensory dead, resent having their disability pointed out.

Jesus warned you.

I need to compliment a kindness here, my producer friend who left me a wonderful PM taught me the most important word I have ever found to describe a good system---ELEGANT, and elegance comes in a million forms of sound, and trying to measure it by numbers IS A GOD D-------D FOOLS ERRAND, like comparing beautiful women, none are equal, there is no equality, each one is priceless, special and unique unto them selves and you can not profane them by trying to make love to one in a laboratory.   

"Mr. Jeff Rowland, is it true none of these amps produce sound spectrum above 16,000 Hertz, yes that is exactly true." these are horrific words to some folks, don't be one of them Professor Huskey.

Prof. Husky, a good system, no mater what it does in the numbers will stone stop time and hypnotize you, heal you and make you remember you are a human, its a lover's and poets errand to measure this, only the romantic will ever get it, not a ding dong with a multi meter.

Lets please raise our glass to the many folks who have the brains to build a elegant system, but lets refill and raise our glasses to the poets adoration for beauty that gives us the ability to hear it.

(this is private -Thank you R., the birds have returned, you have done so very much good for the world, see it. know it)

I am not very smart, I do not understand the following-

Eddy currents(also called Foucault currents[1]) are loops of electrical current induced within conductors by a changing magnetic field in the conductor, due to Faraday’s law of induction. Eddy currents flow in closed loops within conductors, in planes perpendicular to the magnetic field. They can be induced within nearby stationary conductors by a time-varying magnetic field created by an AC electromagnet or transformer, for example,or by relative motion between a magnet and a nearby conductor. The magnitude of the current in a given loop is proportional to the strength of the magnetic field, the area of the loop, and the rate of change of flux, and inversely proportional to the resistivity of the material.

That the person who wrote that is a kind pf poet too, goes with out saying, but i am stupid so I have to watch the movie 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYqfiOVOVY   


GRACE RUBY
I have a small reading disability, so i wasnt able to understand that complacently, but what i got from that was that every system sounds good to someone and that its not all numbers and readings, so i thank you for showing me that   

GRACE RUBY

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #38 on: 12 Jan 2019, 12:14 am »
Quote from: MttBsh on  3 Sep 2018, 01:59 am To our new member Mr. Husky, with gifted curiosity.

    Suggestion: stop thinking about it, go take a nice long walk. You'll soon realize how ridiculous it is to get stressed out about strands of speaker wire.

Twitch said---
LOL, exactly !


Twitch, i think you are assuming he or others have the same sensory experience you might have.
Listeners fatigue for some of us, is a dam nasty experience, after dropping a grand on a product  :duh:
if he, or some other person hears or experiences something you don't, why not show your grace
and curiosity by letting them explain their experience in a comfortable setting,

rather then telling them to take a walk,
which is something we tell dogs to do
.
OR, if you can not existentially reconcile someones else's experience,
why not you take a walk, look at the stars, smell the earth and all her Majesty,
I think we all would benefit from taking more walks. 

Love the people Twitch

Grace Ruby   

GRACE RUBY

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Re: How is solid core speaker wire better then stranded?
« Reply #39 on: 12 Jan 2019, 12:17 am »
I have a small reading disability, so i wasnt able to understand that complacently, but what i got from that was that every system sounds good to someone and that its not all numbers and readings, so i thank you for showing me that

Professor Husky
Albert Einstein was not such a great reader as well.
watch the video, its a gas
and yes you are so very right about systems

Grace Ruby