OB Speakers

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Zitric

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OB Speakers
« on: 9 Aug 2018, 04:25 pm »
Greeting guys,

I am currently looking at upgrading speakers. Checking out DIY options and with the many options available today, the OB speakers GR Research seem to fill all the goals.
Slim, not intruding, well designed, respected and highly regarded with the designer having very high reputation.

To be honed Danny has also been one of the most accommodating to me on emails and unlike other designers Danny didn't dropped the ball on me after telling that I will be shipping his design to Asia. Others that I have talked to just suddenly stop replying after hearing it, with Danny he didn't and instead continued to accommodate me. So respect to Danny!

Salute to you Danny.

So here is my question and hope to have better understanding.

1. Danny ref. the OB7 better than OB5 due to seal enclosure having better midbass definition.

Q: why is it not as much loved as the OB5? Most of the time, the OB5 is more discussed, has more reviews?
After the OB5, alot refers to the next upgrade would be is the Super V. Not to mention sometime I even see the X-static line also being suggested as an alternative with a little less definition or resolution but having capabilities of best of both worlds - ( use of HT and Audio ) and is cheaper...
There was even a thread regarding the RS8 over the OB7......

Am I missing something about the OB7?

Thank you for any inputs.
Hope I'm welcome here as well.

Zitric

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #1 on: 9 Aug 2018, 04:42 pm »
BTW guys, I'm not looking for any concrete answers as I know this will be subjective.

Just opinions, experiences that might lead to it.

corndog71

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #2 on: 9 Aug 2018, 05:03 pm »
For the money, X-Statiks are really tough to beat.  Add a sealed servo sub and you have a full range 2.1 system that will sound amazing.  The OB series uses the better Neo tweeters which bring a little better resolution.  You really can't go wrong either way. 

Zitric

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #3 on: 9 Aug 2018, 05:15 pm »
Thanks Conrdog, and I perfectly agree with you on the X-Static... though Im really leaning on the OB.
I just cant complete the puzzle regarding the 5 vs 7?

I was also introduced to the X-Otica, got really interested, but since its limited to the pre cut baffles, I cant. Shipping it is going to cost me much. If estimates are correct, I might save close to $1000 shipping the OB vs the Otica.

glynnw

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #4 on: 9 Aug 2018, 05:52 pm »
Allow me to semi-sidetrack this discussion.  I currently have a pair of Danny's wonderful 12" dual speaker servo-subs used with a pair of Spatial Audio M3 Triode Master speakers.  Since Spatial has said they use the same subs in their $20k speaker, I like to lie to myself and say I have a similar set-up.  But while I love this combo, I always remain open to new ideas.  Which brings me to:  Which of the various top ends that Danny has designed for these subs sounds the best AND is available in a flat pack?  If not too spendy I may try it just to satisfy my curiosity.   Sensitivity is not an issue - I have a couple of strong amps I can throw at 'em.

Captainhemo

Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #5 on: 9 Aug 2018, 07:34 pm »
The  NX  Series is a  great line
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153434.msg1640026#msg1640026

We have  stock of some stuff, some  stuff we need to get  more  cutting / milling  done.

Will soon have  some limited quantities of the  revised  wedgies and new   single Neo10/Neo3 as well

for more  info on these, see  Danny's post  form  yesterday (#203)
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152039.200

jay

corndog71

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #6 on: 9 Aug 2018, 09:20 pm »
Thanks Conrdog, and I perfectly agree with you on the X-Static... though Im really leaning on the OB.
I just cant complete the puzzle regarding the 5 vs 7?

I was also introduced to the X-Otica, got really interested, but since its limited to the pre cut baffles, I cant. Shipping it is going to cost me much. If estimates are correct, I might save close to $1000 shipping the OB vs the Otica.

Just so you know The OB-5 and X-Statiks are essentially the same except the OB-5 uses the Neo3 tweeter and smaller mid's and midwoofers.  The mids are OB on both designs. 

If you want ALL OB look at the NX series.

Danny Richie

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #7 on: 9 Aug 2018, 09:31 pm »
Think of the OB-5 and OB-7 as basically the same speaker. Just the lower end is configured a little differently.

The OB-5 uses a pair of the 16 ohm drivers in parallel with a ported box so that they can be used as a stand alone pair. The -3db is in the low 40's range.

The OB-7 uses four of the 8 ohm drivers in series/parallel. So with twice the drivers handling the lower end they are a little faster and tighter. However, the box is sealed and the -3db is typically in the low to mid 50's. So a separate sub is usually desired to complete the system.

The X-Statik kit is priced below the cost of the parts in the kit. It is the bang for the buck king. It uses the larger M-165/16 drivers and has a little more body and warmth to the sound. It is not quite as detailed as the OB-5 or OB-7 but with cap upgrades it gets pretty close. It has a smooth sound that is musical and easy to listen to. It was also designed to be used with subs.

Stepping up to NX-Otica's or NX-Tremes are a completely different performance level, by a lot. Those kits easily compete with anything at any price, and have qualities about them that are unmatched by anything. And yes, CNC cut flat packs are part of the kit and necessary for the design. The tweeter wave guide alone is beyond the wood working capabilities of even the more experienced wood workers. And shipping them overseas certainly would be more costly.   

Danny Richie

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #8 on: 9 Aug 2018, 09:40 pm »
Allow me to semi-sidetrack this discussion.  I currently have a pair of Danny's wonderful 12" dual speaker servo-subs used with a pair of Spatial Audio M3 Triode Master speakers.  Since Spatial has said they use the same subs in their $20k speaker, I like to lie to myself and say I have a similar set-up.  But while I love this combo, I always remain open to new ideas.  Which brings me to:  Which of the various top ends that Danny has designed for these subs sounds the best AND is available in a flat pack?  If not too spendy I may try it just to satisfy my curiosity.   Sensitivity is not an issue - I have a couple of strong amps I can throw at 'em.

Clayton hit a home run with those speakers. They offer really good performance in an easy to produce form factor. So bank for the buck is pretty high.

Obviously we target a different market with our DIY designs. We can take you to higher levels, but they are not turn key completed speakers. But if you want to give it a shot have a good look at the NX-Otica or even the MTM only version.

Original design thread: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138009.0

Testing complete and shipping kits: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141654.0

A build thread: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143221.0

NX-Treme testing: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=145270.0

NX-Otica MTM section only: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144907.0

And the sensitivity on those are still pretty high in the 93 to 95db range. So you can drive them with anything.

And they all come with CNC cut flat packs.

Zitric

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #9 on: 10 Aug 2018, 02:51 pm »
Think of the OB-5 and OB-7 as basically the same speaker. Just the lower end is configured a little differently.

The OB-5 uses a pair of the 16 ohm drivers in parallel with a ported box so that they can be used as a stand alone pair. The -3db is in the low 40's range.

The OB-7 uses four of the 8 ohm drivers in series/parallel. So with twice the drivers handling the lower end they are a little faster and tighter. However, the box is sealed and the -3db is typically in the low to mid 50's. So a separate sub is usually desired to complete the system.

The X-Statik kit is priced below the cost of the parts in the kit. It is the bang for the buck king. It uses the larger M-165/16 drivers and has a little more body and warmth to the sound. It is not quite as detailed as the OB-5 or OB-7 but with cap upgrades it gets pretty close. It has a smooth sound that is musical and easy to listen to. It was also designed to be used with subs.

Stepping up to NX-Otica's or NX-Tremes are a completely different performance level, by a lot. Those kits easily compete with anything at any price, and have qualities about them that are unmatched by anything. And yes, CNC cut flat packs are part of the kit and necessary for the design. The tweeter wave guide alone is beyond the wood working capabilities of even the more experienced wood workers. And shipping them overseas certainly would be more costly.


Thank you so much Danny, maybe its the capability of the OB5 to go down lower that makes it discussed more.

In lined with this, whats the exact net volume of the OB5 box? from calculations the gross is around 1.4 cubic feet?
And whats the tuning frequency of the port making it "-3db is in the low 40's range"?

Thanks.

Danny Richie

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #10 on: 10 Aug 2018, 09:12 pm »

Thank you so much Danny, maybe its the capability of the OB5 to go down lower that makes it discussed more.

In lined with this, whats the exact net volume of the OB5 box? from calculations the gross is around 1.4 cubic feet?
And whats the tuning frequency of the port making it "-3db is in the low 40's range"?

Thanks.

The internal volume comes out in the 1.1 range.

Tuned to 45Hz (two 4" ports that are 1.8" in diameter) gives a -3db of 48Hz. That typically yields a mid to low 40's in room response.

Zitric

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #11 on: 10 Aug 2018, 10:38 pm »
Thanks Danny.

glynnw

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #12 on: 11 Aug 2018, 05:36 am »
I'm back, still considering adding something atop my dual 12" servo subs (Danny, get some easy name for these).  From what I see there are now 2 choices:
NX-Otica MTM    or   Wedge.  If I am correct that both these are available as flat pack, which is the better speaker when paired with the subs?

Danny Richie

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #13 on: 11 Aug 2018, 05:10 pm »
I'm back, still considering adding something atop my dual 12" servo subs (Danny, get some easy name for these).  From what I see there are now 2 choices:
NX-Otica MTM    or   Wedge.  If I am correct that both these are available as flat pack, which is the better speaker when paired with the subs?

Both are great, but slightly different. Mike Lundy built both of them. He could probably give you the best feedback.

mlundy57

Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #14 on: 11 Aug 2018, 06:46 pm »
This is my perspective on the two designs. At least one or two others have both so maybe they'll add their viewpoints also.

The Wedgies are physically smaller. I think they image a little better, have been described as scary clean, and have something I can't really put words to.

The NX-Otica monitors are physically larger and have a fuller midrange.

Room size is a factor. In the smallish (11'x13'x8' and 12'x14'x8') rooms in my house the NX-Oticas can be too much without decent room treatment. They can have a cave-like sound. With absorption in the corners behind them, dispersion at the first reflection points and absorption behind the listening position (it is only 1' off the rear wall) this is tamed and they no longer sound cave-like.

One reason this echo effect is more pronounced with the Oticas than with the Wedgies is the Oticas need more power to have the music move forward and open up than the Wedgies do. This means the Wedgies sound full and open at lower volumes, which may be part of what I can't put my finger on with them.

In a larger room, with more space around them and the listening position farther away (12' instead of 8') the Oticas come into their own. Now they are full, open, have great midrange, and are not overpowering. They still need the extra power for the music to move forward and open up but since you are no longer sitting on top of them it is not too loud.

The differences between the two come down to preferences. I have had one person who has heard both prefer the Wedgie regardless of room size and others who would choose the Oticas due to the better midrange.

I guess for me, in a smaller room, especially without much acoustical treatment, I would prefer the Wedgies while in a larger room I would opt for the NX-Oticas. So which one am I actually listening too? I am now using the 12'x14'x8' room, with room treatment and the NX-Oticas. I can only get about 9' away from the speakers so I give up a little of the OB magic, especially at lower volume, for the fuller midrange.

All that said, there are two other OB monitors being developed, the single Neo10/Neo 3 and the Super 7. Once those are ready for prime time, which sounds like it may not be too much longer, the options are going to be much greater.

Mike

ebag4

Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #15 on: 11 Aug 2018, 07:10 pm »
My experience mimics Mike’s.   In my 12.5’x10.5’ room (with a reasonable amount of sound treatment) I preferred the Wedgies.  The Otticas did not sound as good in that room, the Wedgies really shine there, and as Mike mentioned, they have something special that is difficult to put you finger on, a prescence in their presentation, great speakers.  I should note that I only set up the Oticas in that space for a short period, and they were only placed in the same location the Wedgies sounded best, so the placement wasn’t optimized for the Oticas.

Shortly after the Oticas were built, she who must be obeyed granted approval to put the Oticas in a much larger room, 16’x28’ with cathedral ceilings.  I have also played the Wedgies in this room.  The only room treatment I have in this space are a pair of 2’x4’ Pi Audio diffusers.  In this space the differences in presentation between the speakers was less pronounced, the primary difference being the frequency the H Frames were crossed.  In this room I prefer the Oticas and the lower crossover to the H Frames over the Wedgies, but  they are more similar than different.

In each case the same H frame was used.

Best,
Ed

glynnw

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #16 on: 12 Aug 2018, 03:40 pm »
Thanks - sounds like the Oticas make more sense for me.  But I am in no hurry, so I will wait until these 2 new designs are done before stepping in.

Danny Richie

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #17 on: 12 Aug 2018, 04:19 pm »
The Wedgies were designed to bring a high level of open baffle performance to smaller room sizes. So it's not surprising to hear our customers claiming that they really excel in that application. All of the drivers are really fast and the front baffle area is next to nothing. So they are really transparent and three dimensional. They create a really incredible 3D sound stage that does everything really well. Plus they work great with really small amps.

For bigger rooms the NX-Otica models take over for me. They have a bit more body and fullness. And I think these are my personal favorite speakers in the vocal region. I love the vocal range.

jseipp

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Re: OB Speakers
« Reply #18 on: 12 Aug 2018, 05:52 pm »
I just finished placing a set of NX-Tremes in a large room and moved a set of Wedgies to a smaller one.  Though these speakers aren’t exactly what is being discussed, my experiences agree with everything people here have been saying. 

Both sets of speakers are scary good!  The Wedgie magic really appeared in the new location.  The NX-Tremes fill the larger space with consummate ease.  The “topper” designs for placement on the dual OBs is an ingenious way of customizing the family sound to the setting.