Speakers that sing with 25 tube watts????

Merle · « **on:** 11 Jan 2005, 11:59 pm »

Say you had $1500 and wanted to pull the old Anthem Integrated One out of the closet, what would you hook up to it?

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 12:12 am »

Either a fullrange Fostex F200As in a BoB Brines or suitable cabinet or
a pair of used Soliloqys 2A3, that are a rare find.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 12:14 am »

Quote from: Merle

Say you had $1500 and wanted to pull the old Anthem Integrated One out of the closet, what would you hook up to it?

Check the closet, still have the Keelin's ? If so....put the $1,500. back in your pocket.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 01:20 am »

I am merrily using 30wpc of Teac tripath power with some dead simple DIY Cable 4.5 inch full rangers - after some dead simple DIY to build a 0.3 foot box, put $1200 back in your pocket...

Jay S · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 01:53 am »

You will be surprised how satisfying it is to listen to the little nOrh 3.0, which uses a single 3" full range driver. Cost is $150/pair (with shipping!) for the drum version. I think the Prism version is $200 shipped. www.norh.com. A friend is happily using the 3.0 with a 9 watt/channel nOrh tube integrated amp. I bought a pair for my mom and was goosing it with a 60 watt/channel Korsun (hmm Red Rose?) solid-state integrated and, believe me, the amp died on me and the speakers never complained even when I was playing them very loudly!

For myself I have a pair of RAD Micro speakers. They also use a 3" full range driver, but in a more conventionally shaped (but well finished) cabinet. Cost is $2xx/pair (can't recall right now, but check Brian's website - he has a forum here on AC). I had them hooked up to an 8 watt/channel tube amp, which was adequate, 25 watts would be more than enough. I know they can handle good power as I have hooked them up to my 250 watt amp (though I have not blasted them).

Best of all, these speakers are small. They play down to the mid bass but of course not deep bass. If you want full range sound, Brian has a nicely veneered active sub that uses an 8" driver.

suits_me · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 04:42 am »

You're a persistent bugger.

Here, try something really different. (I don't like one driver, full range speakers.) Actually, the site doesn't give efficiency that I see, but this design should be workable as long as you don't crank your music.

http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/Pages/Peerless_Pipe.html

maxwalrath · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 05:19 am »

Merle, I'm suprised to hear you looking for a match for the old Anthem after all the stuff you've had in your system lately.

Steve · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Jan 2005, 03:14 am »

Hi Merle,

If you can find a used pair of system audio 1270 speakers (I paid $800, list is $2200), you can get around 101db, if that is loud enough. Depends on the music and volume you want. They will play deep bass, like from the titanic sound track, and with a crossover upgrade sound very very clear and musical. The midrange is right up there with the Scanspeak 7" drivers with the carbon fiber cones.

Hope this helps.

eric the red · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Jan 2005, 09:14 am »

VFR Pilots Paradox 1s that are on Agone for 450.00. Get a used REL Strata lll for @ 800.00 and you'd still have 250.00 for next month's beer money

JLM · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 02:33 am »

Boy, here's the old tube watt versus solid state watt question.

Tubes clip softer and distort in less objectionable ways, so they can effectively be driven harder than solid state watt for watt. Rules of thumb put this as high as double or triple as much.

And a chance to expound on how a watt translates into dB.

Recall that one dB is the smallest incremental increase in sound pressure level (spl) that the average person can detect. Power (wattage) relates to spl's logarithmically, so to double the dBs (to sound twice as loud) you must increase power by a factor of ten. So in the example above 2 or 3 times the power is only about 4 dB louder (a bit more than half again as loud). Watts can be converted into dBs of gain then added to rated speaker efficiencies to calculate how loud any given amp/speaker combination can theoritically get. Speaker efficiencies are stated in terms of xx dB/w/m where "w" is watts, more specifically one watt input.

Here's a table of watts to dB of gain:

1 watt = 0 dB 10 watts = 10 dB 100 watts = 20 dB
2 watts = 3 dB 20 watts = 13 dB 200 watts = 23 dB
4 watts = 6 dB 40 watts = 16 dB 400 watts = 26 dB
5 watts = 7 dB 50 watts = 17 dB 500 watts = 27 dB
8 watts = 9 dB 80 watts = 19 dB 800 watts = 29 dB

Example 1: 85 dB/w/m (low efficiency) speaker and a 100 watt amplifier = 85 + 20 = 105 dB.

Example 2: 90 dB/w/m (medium efficiency) speaker and a 40 watt amplifier = 90 + 16 = 106 dB.

Example 3: 95 dB/w/m (high efficiency) speaker and a 10 watt amplifier = 95 + 10 = 105 dB.

105 dB peak spl is a fairly good target to shoot for in home use as 25 dB is a ballpark amount of headroom to count on for dynamics in most music and 80 dB is quite loud for average playback levels.

So using the example at the beginning of this thread: 105 - 13 = 92 dB/w/m efficiency speakers.

BTW I own the first pair of the FTA-2000 speakers mentioned above that are 90 dB/w/m efficient, so I'm looking for 40 watts per channel (two channels add 3 dB, but losses in distance, plus gains from reflection in a 2000 cu. ft. room that I'm using roughly balance all this out). The FTA-2000 cover 99% of all music, provide a direct amp to driver connection, offer the best possible imaging source, eliminates phasing issues, crossover distortions/losses, transmission line benign load to the amp with clear midrange, and does it without a whizzer cone. It's sound is detailed, but more so it is musical so that well recorded material is rewarded while poor quality material is still enjoyable as they always put the music first.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 02:38 am »

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15981 ...you'll save a few dollars.

Merle · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 02:52 am »

Well, Friday I came home with a new pair of KEF Q5's. A dealer friend gave me a good deal on them, $675, new in the box. Just a couple of quick thoughts about them. You know how older Conrad-Johnson gear gives everything a sort of "golden hue"? Well, these speakers seem to do that. They are reeeaaaaly smooth. Detail is there but very laid back. Bass is fairly deep and tight. Vocals? To die for. These speakers sound like they were made for acoustic/chamber/lounge music. If you like Peggy Lee and Frank Sanatra, these may be the last speakers you ever want. They image like mini-monotors. [Must be the Uni-Q drivers?] Problems? Well, the cabinets sound hollow when you knock them with your knuckles [although I can't hear the cabinets when listening to music]. The vinyl woodgrain is a little cheesy [although all in all, they are pretty nice looking speakers]. And, quite a bit of plastic is used on the speakers. Other than these issues, these sound very nice. Very much different from the Paradigms, PSB's, ect that you find in the same price range. As I get more familur with the sound of these, I'll post more thoughts on them. Last but not least, they work quite well with 25wpc.

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 09:01 pm »

Omega has a full line of some very nice highly efficient speakers. Im lovng the super three narrow baffale myself at only 17WPC

JackD · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Jan 2005, 10:01 pm »

Merle

The best I have heard are either the Reynaud Trentes in the $1500 range used or the Twin MkIII for $650 to $750 used. Worked great with 30 wpc Music Reference RM-10 and 25wpc Quicksilver. Could even be pushed to low 90db level with ASL Wave 8's. Am currently using Green Mountain Europas with the Music Reference, but with subs picking up the bottom end. This is in 15'x 19' x 10' room. The Europas will do mid 40's on their own with the small tube amp. Another really good option is a pair of Boston Accoustics CR-8's used or the new version the CR-85. These are around $400 retail but can be had for less.

Jack

gordf · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Jan 2005, 08:49 pm »

they sounded superb. I have the euterpes which have better base and actually are cheaper, but not quite as good soundstage....still excellent though....check audiogon for used/demo JM reynaud, you can even email mr. reynaud for his views.....

zybar · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Jan 2005, 09:46 pm »

Quote from: JackD

Merle

The best I have heard are either the Reynaud Trentes in the $1500 range used or the Twin MkIII for $650 to $750 used. Worked great with 30 wpc Music Reference RM-10 and 25wpc Quicksilver. Could even be pushed to low 90db level with ASL Wave 8's. Am currently using Green Mountain Europas with the Music Reference, but with subs picking up the bottom end. This is in 15'x 19' x 10' room. The Europas will do mid 40's on their own with the small tube amp. Another really good option is a pair of Bost ...

I have a pair of Twins MK II in a secondary system and they sounded great with 18 watts of triode power.

The Mk III are supposed to be even better.

An absolute steal at their price.

George

RussKon · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 01:16 pm »

i can't believe that no one has mentioned any klipsch speakers

here are a pair of klipsch lascalas on ebay right now - 3 days to go and price is $1000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61378&item=5747009505&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

104 db efficient!!!

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=6&s=specs