New JVC Receivers

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 05:37 pm »

MonkeyK,

1. Yep, sure did forget to paste it in....ACI, here on AudioCircle sells what looks to be a good Y-splitter. I'd first ask if it is teflon lined, not inferior delrin lined, inside.

http://audioc.com/accessories1/misc/adapters.htm

Monster Cable also sells a pair of solid brass splitters, teflon lined, for $19.99. They are good - I have no beef with Monster Cable as seems to be de rigeur these days on the internet.

2. One splitter only needed. You are only splitting off one channel (mono) to the sub. If you have two subs, you'd need two splitters - on each channel. Doesn't and shouldn't matter any of you split the left or right for your sub. I think most sub makers suggest the left input when given a choice..it really shouldn't matter any tho in sound quality.

3. I haven't tried it that way, I use a splitter as I don't really rely on the sub for much more than low end fill. It doesn't bother me that the levels aren't matched...in my system the sub just fills out the landscape for me. If you are using your sub, and JVC, in an integrated audio and video (mine is dedicated audio) you may care a lot more to have bass management that I do. In know that in my video system, I tend to twiddle with the bass levels a lot more than in my audio set-up....it's just the nature of that listening medium, I think.

Hey, just 'cause I have experience with the JVC for 8 months now, doesn't mean I've experienced everything there is to know about it. Titter about yourself with the 'Little Wonder' and report back your findings...there's lots of folks that may want to know what you find out.

Ciao

MonkeyK · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 06:09 pm »

Sorry to perpetuate this threadjack, but I need to finish this train of thought.

2) Regarding the splitter. If you only take sub out from one channel, isn't it possible that you are losing something. On live stuff I'm sure this would not matter, but on studio recorded stuff I would think it is entirely possible to record left and right channels seperate from each other. If I recall, an example would be "When I'm 64" on the "Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band" album by The Beatles. I'm going on a limb here since I am at work and can't check my music library, but as I recall if you shift the balance all the way left or all the way right, you will hear that some of the sounds only come out of one channel.

3)Is there a reason that you use DVD-Multi instead of just the regular DVD source? You obviously went through some effort to use DVD-Multi with your sub, so I was just wondering what made that compelling to you?

mcgsxr · « **Reply #22 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 06:19 pm »

I have played around with the ES-1, and found that the DVD Multi inputs were the best sounding - all other inputs are subject to an Analog to Digital to Analog conversion, and often this is audible.

that is why people are jumping through hoops to use the DVD Multi input - if you try it, and don't hear any difference, then use the most convenient inputs for your needs!

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #23 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 06:37 pm »

It's not quite a threadjack, as we are talking JVC receiver issues, albeit not the new ones coming out in a couple months. But, those probably have the same issues, too.

I'm not sure if 'you're missing anything' if you use a single mono splitter. You could buy a pair and certainly see. If you listen to stereo music, or choose 2 channel mix when playing a DVD on your audio setup options at the beginning of a video, it's going to sum everything for you beforehand (if not, your player will do so automatically anyhow based on the connection...I'm pretty sure my Pioneer DVD does). If you are listening to DVD, DVD-audio, or SACD Multichannel, it may be meaningful to have separate splitters as you are them listening to dedicated 2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 audio with specific information fed to the subwoofer.

But, we are talking about the little Toshiba...a model that only has discrete left and right channel outputs.

Gary of Panda Audio, then the rest of us, found that the DVD Multi input is superior than DVD (digital) input. Another (redundant) digital to analog coversion is bypassed, and it sounds purer. P.8 of the JVC Owners Manual spells out and agrees to the superiority of this connection, too.

Take a stab at your hunch and report your findings...inquiring minds wanna' know

MonkeyK · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 07:28 pm »

I will try it when I get home tonight. Not that I can be really sure since I don't even have a sub yet (which means that I have been loosing quite a bit all along). I should be able to come close if I can find something with different audio in each channel and then comparing the channel at LRG and SML settings.

As a disclaimer, I think that I am coming from a very different perspective from you. I am using my MP3 client as the source tied to my DVD inputs. This may or may not be closer to the discrete 2 channel output described earlier. Also, I am using analog in for the regular DVD source.

Charles Charowsky · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 10:08 pm »

I exchanged the Toshiba and got a Sony DVY-NS775V DVD Player, has the correct output jacks for DVD- Multi. I set it up and and does sound better. Everything needs to be burnt-in. I will be reading the manuals . and posting in the starting blocks. I really appreciate the time you all spent helping me. I will be posting on how things are going. Right now I just hooked up the DVD and turned it on and put it in multi. I have to read on in the manuals for setting up system. again thanks so much.

Charles C.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #26 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 10:33 pm »

If you want the jvc to manage your bass and you don't have discrete inputs, you will need to use the dvd mode. If you have discrete inputs, you can use dvd/multi to manage your bass. Otherwise, you can use dvd/multi with splitters off the loudspeaker outputs and manage the bass externally.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #27 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 11:16 pm »

Allright Charles, I think you're on your way now.

I just read the DVP-NS775V manual online at Sony.com and it has analog 5.1 output jacks. So, you should be able to manage the bass (subwoofer) levels thru the JVC.

As it states again on P. 8 of the JVC manual, you may need to select analog discrete output mode on the Sony to do so, first.

None of this is hard, just confusing. Perservere and tinker and you'll find an acceptable solution to most or all...now that you ditched the Toshiba. Sound quality wise the Toshiba was a good one I've heard, it just didn't have the analog outputs you needed for your particular needs.

Chime in with your reaction to things when you have 300 hours on the JVC. Power conditioning is a must to get the best out of the new digi and hybrid receivers...make sure you are feeding it EMI (electromagnetic interfernece) and RFI (radio frequency interference) as possible to get the absolute best in sound quality from your system.

When you do, you will be abundantly treated well beyond it's modest purchase price

MonkeyK · « **Reply #28 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 11:17 pm »

I'm still not getting this. There are three possible inputs for DVD:
-DVD with digital in
-DVD with analog in to the front channels only
-DVD Multi with analog in to all channels (including the sub)

I can understand that analog could be better than digital. The reasoning is that the JVC does a digital to analog to digital conversion before processing, where the first digital to analog is not so great.

What I don't get is why DVD Multi would be any better than DVD for two channel sound? And why would you want your DVD player to determine the cutoff for front channels vs sub?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #29 on:** 17 Jan 2005, 11:30 pm »

MonkeyK,

Read p.8 of the JVC manual...it's the best input to use with this particular receiver. All of us that have compared have found it so, too.

When you use the standard 'DVR/DVD' setting, you incorporate the DSP/Surround Sound circuitry within the JVC. All that extra going on in the background pollutes the purity of things. Using DVD Multi defeats the ability to use DSP and Surround Sound function of the JVC - what is passed to the JVC is amplifed with minimal processing. The third option, of the three you've listed, is the purest and the way most of us have configured our JVC.

And, boy with some attention to RF and EM rejection, it sure is nicer than $250 would ever have previously suggested.

Charles Charowsky · « **Reply #30 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 03:28 am »

Hello again, I"ve looked through the Sony manual and I don't see mention of analog discrete input setting. On page 31 of the Sony manual item #8, selecting the type of jack used to connect your receiver appears. I 'm confused about this info. My intuition would say to select Digital and 5.1 CH output. Item 10. and pg. 32 is confusing.

This says digital out.

Charlie Charowsky

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #31 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 03:58 am »

You may not need to do anything in setting the Sony to analog discrete output (not input as you wrote). Using the 5.1 output area of your Sony and hooking it up to the corresponding 'DVR/DVD In' area on the back of the JVC with 3 analog cables (1 each for each front speaker and one for the sub).

With most DVD players, using these outputs and it's an automatic thing to the player. Only on some would you need to specifically set it to 'analog', rather than digital outputs.

Not being a recent vintage Sony owner, I'm not sure why you'd think setting 'digital' and 5.1 output is intuitively correct? I would choose whatever the opposite of digital is on the Sony (if there is any) and use the 5.1 outputs to the JVC DVR/DVD In audio section and the DVD Multi setting on your remote (or front panel).

But, most likely you don't need to set a thing on your Sony. Just hook up those analog cables to the right spots on the JVC, set your bass management...and enjoy it like hell.

Of course I could be wrong as I am just using a bit o' reasoning here. Nothing like having the equipment itself, or at least manual, in front of me to be sure

MonkeyK · « **Reply #32 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 04:04 pm »

OK, I tried comparing left and right channels on a few songs. I could not find a way to easily adjust left-rigth balance on the RX-F10, so I used a set of headphones and moved one ear away. Since my goal was just to see if very different information was sent to different channels, using headphones in this way was not very bad.

It was harder to evaluate the presence of lower sounds than I thought. While there were differences, I'm not sure how low is really sub level. It is also hard to distingush instruments at really low frequencies.

What I found:
"When I'm 64" by the Beatles. Although voices were in one channel and instrumentation in the other, lower frequencies were played from both channels. Since the sub should be really low frequencies, using one channel should not be a problem.

"Don't Eat The Yellow Snow" by Frank Zappa. I thought that I heard some lower notes in one channel that were not in the other, but I can't really be sure in this case.

Maybe, if I find the time, I'll try some spectrum analysis on the Zappa song this weekend.

MonkeyK · « **Reply #33 on:** 25 Jan 2005, 04:47 am »

I forgot to post that I did try out a very rough spectrum analysis. I ussed my MP3 players visualization workshop to display the spectrum analyzer with the right channel being a fat green bar and the left being a thin red bar. I have no idea exactly what frequencies corresponded to each bar, but it was plain to see that the lowest frequecies being represented had different peaks for left and right.

This would suggest to me that it is definitely possible that a sub only attached to one channel could be missing some of the original recording.