comparison of evolution one with st-10M

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in1unison

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Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #20 on: 18 Jun 2018, 03:52 pm »
Makes me wonder how many people listen to them that way and form bad opinions based on bad set up.

Thank you Spenav.

Lesson to take home, always test your system after changing or adding gear!

RafaPolit

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Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #21 on: 18 Jun 2018, 03:55 pm »
Is there anywhere else this is documented?  I find it most interesting. Lets say that, for just 2 speaker setups, absolute phase does not matter (some argue it does, some say it doesn't... I don't want to go into that right now!).  As soon as you incorporate another amp to drive secondary speakers, or zone A-B, a subwoofer, any addition to it... even if absolute phase is not distinguishable (which is arguable), coherent phase between all components is A MUST! so, in the sake of keeping everything nice and tight, this should really be something important to know.

Thanks for the heads up!  I'll look into reverting mine and see if coherence of phase is improved. Thanks.

Best regards,
Rafa.

Wind Chaser

Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #22 on: 18 Jun 2018, 04:02 pm »
Is there anywhere else this is documented?

That's what I'd like to see because that claim strikes me as absolute nonsense.  :duh:

Spenav

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Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #23 on: 18 Jun 2018, 04:40 pm »
I couldn't find any documentation on that myself but I am lucky enough that my pre-pro (Marantz AV-8802) will tell me when my speaker phase is inverted.  The difference is audible and the amp tends to clip sooner when it is inverted.  The sound is less harsh and smoother also when you correct it.  I used it like that for a couple of days before finding out and straightening it out.  I remember one song in particular from Fourplay Heartfelt CD that sounded horrible until I rectified the problem and everything fell into place.  I could sense something was amiss but couldn't put my finger on it.  Now that I have lived with the amp for a couple of years I can tell right away. 

rustydoglim

Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #24 on: 18 Jun 2018, 06:25 pm »
You mean deliberately wiring the amp so negative output terminal is actually positive, and the positive output terminal is negative? If so, I have never heard of this practice - which quite frankly doesn't make any sense.

You guys should stick to factory setting.

seikosha

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Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #25 on: 18 Jun 2018, 06:53 pm »
The other issue with absolute phase is that not all recordings are recorded in absolute phase (they are all over the place) so unless you know how a particular recording was made, you really have no idea whether or not you are in fact listening to it in the correct phase.  All of us are listening to recordings out of absolute phase frequently and we don't even realize it.  Like rustydoglim says, just hook it up regularly.

Wind Chaser

Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #26 on: 18 Jun 2018, 07:17 pm »
The other issue with absolute phase is that not all recordings are recorded in absolute phase...

That is why some DACs have a switch to invert on the fly. Doing it at the amp is a real PITA.

Wind Chaser

Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #27 on: 18 Jun 2018, 07:19 pm »
You guys should stick to factory setting.

Positive to positive and negative to negative. Does anyone deliberately do otherwise?

Spenav

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Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #28 on: 18 Jun 2018, 07:33 pm »
Some pre-amps will let you know at setup.  That has nothing to do with recordings.  Like everything else, if you are happy with the sound as is, leave it alone by all means.  There are smart phone apps that can detect this.  I am fortunate that my pre-pro can point to it at setup.  I definitely can hear the difference, but if you are OK with it, it's all good.  Happy that the Evo One does not suffer from that.
BTW, Wind Chaser, you only have to do it once at the amp.  How much of a PITA can that be?

Wind Chaser

Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #29 on: 18 Jun 2018, 07:42 pm »
Well, if it depends on the recording and you listen to a lot of recordings...

RafaPolit

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Re: comparison of evolution one with st-10M
« Reply #30 on: 18 Jun 2018, 07:57 pm »
As I mentioned, absolute phase can be debated to infinity, and we are not going to come to an agreement.  Obviously if the recording's phase is inverted there is an issue, bla, bla bla.  Yes, we know!

BUT!  A coherent phase within a single system is a must, and is not a matter of debate.  So, here are some scenarios where you would definitely want to know that the absolute phase of the entire rig is kept from the source onwards.
- In order to connect line-level outputs from a RECEIVER into the ST-10 for main speakers and to a cheaper one for surrounds.
- If you are using a DAC-10 balanced outputs into the ST-10 and the RCA outputs into another AMP to gain another zone, or sub-woofer capabilities
- When using, for example, the ST-10 to drive the tweeters of a pair of speakers and another amp for the woofers

We know these are setups a lot of people use.  I am doing the second one.  So... it's very important to know the correct absolute phase position, not because of some inexplicable audio magic going on... but because if more than one AMP comes into play, you want positive current to drive all the speakers in the correct direction.  This is physics and math, its not obscurantism or magic electrons.