Fal flat engine drivers

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 803 times.

versus rider

Fal flat engine drivers
« on: 11 Nov 2018, 08:47 am »
Posting in the hope someone has heard these, the sell Fal C40, 60 and 90, very expensive and no chance to hear them.

rodge827

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1839
  • Phil 2:9-11
Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #1 on: 11 Nov 2018, 01:00 pm »
Is this the speaker your mentioning?

http://www.soleberry.net/falspeaker.html

mix4fix

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1080
  • Audiophile Minion
Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #2 on: 11 Nov 2018, 04:30 pm »
Are they going the car audio route with "square" speakers?

Folsom

Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #3 on: 11 Nov 2018, 06:17 pm »
Peter Daniels was using some in Canada, but I have no idea if he's still around. It's been a few years since he was active on DIYaudio.

No idea how they really sound.

versus rider

Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #4 on: 2 Jan 2019, 01:11 pm »
I have seen on you tube, people fitting them in cars in Japan. A bit expensive for car audio.

versus rider

Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #5 on: 2 Jan 2019, 01:13 pm »

glynnw

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 716
  • I have tin ears.
Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #6 on: 2 Jan 2019, 05:50 pm »
John Chapman of Bent Audio fame has the Fal speakers on the Bent site:  http://www.bentaudio.com/index2.html

versus rider

Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #7 on: 2 Jan 2019, 06:59 pm »
 I've been in contact with John in the past but couldn't find his website, more recently I heard he had stopped trading. He did say before he could get the drivers for me if there wasn't a dealer in the uk but not having the opportunity to hear them I was reluctant to buy them and pay import duty. I am hoping to get more opinions from those that have heard them.

Rusty Jefferson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 400
Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #8 on: 2 Jan 2019, 10:21 pm »
I don't see any description of what they are.  Are they planer, or dynamic, or something else?

Bendingwave

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 315
Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #9 on: 3 Jan 2019, 01:43 am »
I believe Fal speakers to be very similar to BMR (Balanced Mode Radiators) drivers which is derived from DML technology....These Fal speakers are most likely related to the Sony APM flat/square type of speakers they use to make in the 80-90s which is also similar to BMR's....These types of speakers combine Bendingwave technology and pistonic modes of operation.


Even Technics used this technology with there SB line of speakers like these> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG5rttXh7xE

If you look at the description of the diaphram on that Fal link it says this>
●     The foaming of custom-made "styrene" is evenly done on the full surface of 4mm thick diaphragm structured with "honey comb"diaphragm is strong enough for humidity and deterioration caused by a time elapsed.

Two main materials used in DML/BMR/APM is polystyrene and or some type of honeycomb diaphram

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6j7W8wPZek



targa02

Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #10 on: 4 Jan 2019, 03:06 pm »
I heard them a few years ago at RMAF.  Very open sounding and seemed to have electrostatic type speed and clarity.  I am not a DIY guy, but they are very, very interesting. 

SlushPuppy

Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #11 on: 4 Jan 2019, 03:47 pm »
How do you plan to use them? Salk tried them in an open-baffle design a while back and they had bad results:

There was a mechanical issue with the FAL and despite their best efforts, they were not able to resolve it.  My conclusion was that the driver was just not appropriate for an open baffle design.  Although a little on the "polite" side (not quite as detailed as we would have liked), the driver sounded simply wonderful on 97% of the music played on it.  But it would "buzz" on tones in the 1100Hz region on the other 3%. Sax solos, piano solos and female vocals would excite this fault making the music unlistenable.  FAL worked on the issue for over a year and tried re-designing the driver a couple of times.  They gave it their best effort, but were never able to eliminate the problem.

We still have some FAL drivers and may experiment with a sealed cabinet for them.  The additional damping may eliminate the problem.  But that is a future experiment.  For this project, it simply did not work out.

- Jim

redfuneral

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #12 on: 8 Jan 2019, 12:17 am »
I have owned the C60 based Supreme S model since 2014. Regrettably I can't compare them to anything as my first audiophile speakers. I saw them on Audiogon, recognized how rare they were, and pounced. I've been trying to sell them so that I can try some new toys but it seems I'm more curiosity prone than average.

What I can say is that they really caught my attention as a mostly headphone listener. I was concerned when jumping into speakers about phase/timing issues, I wanted a single driver for familiarity's sake. I listen  to modern music however I focus more on speed than bass.  A 10W SEP amplifier I owned was only good for lower volumes(90db peaks) without hard clipping. Right now I have them with a Schiit Ragnarok and while power is fine they are over damped creating a strong lower octave roll-off & thinness to the sound. I've had bass punch with enough visceral impact that it sounded like someone was knocking on the door but that's where my room & equipment tapped out.

They're real strength is their imaging & off-axis response. They've the speed to keep up with all genres of music without blurring the stage. Consistent across amplifiers is a strong center image, vocalists sound dead in center between the speakers neither in front or behind. With the Ragnarok the imaging is small, with more optimal amplifier matches they approach realistic sizing. Happened both with them setup across the long & short wall in my room so long I kept the audio rack out from in between. The flat driver projects a very wide image which eliminates the sweet spot and throws panned sounds 'way over there' but mandates care in where you place your supporting gear. This blessing is also a curse as my room triples as bedroom & home office. That combined with the speaker's lack of feet/spikes and my bumpy wooden floor make them too much a diva for my modest accommodations. I've heard great sound from them but to meet their needs strips budget from my headphone system & leaves my computer desk shoved into the corner. On the other hand they sound good with company over, walking around, laying in bed, sitting, working out, etc. They may demand of your room but you're free to walk around and multitask as you please, the frequency response stays the same. This should all explain why I have them listed for sale 6 months out of the year, and then decide I'd rather keep them for the other 6. Had I the points to compare against I'd tell you how much of this is exclusive to the FALs, I feel that I may just be describing speakers in general.

[/img]

Bendingwave

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 315
Re: Fal flat engine drivers
« Reply #13 on: 8 Jan 2019, 03:43 am »
QUOTE>They're real strength is their imaging & off-axis response. They've the speed to keep up with all genres of music without blurring the stage. Consistent across amplifiers is a strong center image, vocalists sound dead in center between the speakers neither in front or behind. The flat driver projects a very wide image which eliminates the sweet spot and throws panned sounds 'way over there' but mandates care in where you place your supporting gear.

This describes the sound of DML/BMR/APM technology to a T. and the reason I love the sound of DML panels. Imaging and vocals are amazing for only pennies on the dollar....If one can design there panels right the sound is spectacular.

There was a discussion about Phantom center or using a center channel speaker...with DML technology there is no need for a center channel speaker because of that strong center image vocals are dead center with superb voice intelligibility.