Super 3XRS vs super Alnico monitor

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PeterKK

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Super 3XRS vs super Alnico monitor
« on: 26 Apr 2018, 08:00 pm »
Hi,

I was drawn into single drivers after having bought a pair of 47 labs 4722 monitors: I really love their sound, especially speed and soundstage but they are small (3" driver and really small cabinet) and I'm looking for a bigger equivalent to fill a bigger room (25 sq meters = 80 sq feet). I'm interested in Omega speakers but unfortunately cannot audition them. I'm really afraid to go to a larger driver (Super 8) as I believe speed & soundstage will suffer so I'm looking into either 3 XRS (4.5") or the Alnico Monitors (6") to come closer to my 47 labs experience. The monitor can probably put out more presence and bottom end but is it a big compromise in terms of speed and soundstage vs the 3 XRS or does it have similar characteristics and on top gives a better bottom end? Any recommendations are welcome, Peter. 

Doody

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Re: Super 3XRS vs super Alnico monitor
« Reply #1 on: 27 Apr 2018, 02:43 am »
i believe louis has an audition/return policy since he's not a retail brand. reach out and ask?

bestest way to tell!

doody

PeterKK

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Re: Super 3XRS vs super Alnico monitor
« Reply #2 on: 27 Apr 2018, 07:36 am »
Hi, I live in Europe so unfortunately cannot take advantage of that!

roscoe65

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Re: Super 3XRS vs super Alnico monitor
« Reply #3 on: 27 Apr 2018, 11:41 am »
I own or have owned a number of Omega speakers and can share my experience.  I'm in a 15' x 22' room (330 sq ft, or 30 sq meters) with high ceilings.  Amplifiers are tube and solid state, ranging from 4 to 25 wpc.

Speakers in rotation:

1.  Original Omega Super 3 (monitor, wide baffle, retrofitted with RS5 driver).
2.  Omega Super 3U (traded in).  This is a monitor that has the same cabinet volume as the Super 3XRS.
3.  Omega Super 3HO.
4.  Super Alnico Monitor.

I also own a pair of Rythmik F8 subwoofers that can cross over as high as 250hz.

I'll cut to the chase:  a single-driver RS5 speaker will run out of steam in a room that size.  I'm currently running my Super 3's in a near-corner location and while they sound great (better in some ways than the dual driver Super 3HO.) they quickly reach their dynamic limitations.  The Super 3HO does not seem to have the same dynamic limitations in the space, nor does the Super Alnico Monitor.

The Super 3U has the same cabinet volume as the Super 3XRS, and I will assume that the speakers can work somewhat interchangeably.

Specific Recommendations:

1.  If you want to use single-driver speakers (as in only one driver per cabinet) in a 25 sq meter room you will face some significant compromises.  You can listen near field, at quieter volumes, or use bass supplementation.

2.  The RS5- based speakers are really something special, but if you are trying to fill a large room you would probably be happier with the Super 3HO (dual driver) model.  I encounter no dynamic limitations with that speaker in my largish space.

3.  The Super 3XRS would really shine in a small space (like a 150 sq ft room).

4.  The Super Alnico Monitor is a really big stand mounted speaker.  It is closer in size to a JBL L100, Harbeth HL5+, or Yamaha NS690 than most modern monitor speakers.  I say this because it is a rather more imposing speaker than the 3 series speakers.  That being said, the larger driver works better in the large room and has a certain alnico magic that the 3 series does not.

If I were starting over I would follow this approach:

Get the Compact Alnico monitor.  It is the same size as the Super 3HO Monitor (just turned sideways) and works in many of the same applications.  I'm of the opinion that you will need bass augmentation in this large space, and using small monitors will allow for greatest flexibility.  I don't think you lose much bass compared with the SAM, but you gain a huge amount of flexibility.

I would also commit to stereo subwoofers.  I'm a big fan of Rhythmik for my needs, but in Europe you may find a better option.  I've settled in on 8" paper cones for the bass modules to better blend with the Omega drivers.  Thus far I have been successful.

EDIT:

I'm currently trying to focus two different systems in two rooms.  The larger space is also my living room and needs to meet different needs, including entertaining and home theater.  While we are not talking about large speakers, they can become overpowering when placed into a typical room.

In the living room/HT room, I am leaning toward the Super 3HO Monitors.  These have really outstanding proportions and were an instant hit with my GF.  They are out of rotation at the moment (hello SAM's!) but when they are they rest on an Isoacoustics stand, placed on a Rhythmik F8 with Herbies leveling feet attached.  This is a really nice looking stack that is not very visually imposing.  Other RS5-based speakers round out the HT array.

In the small room, I need to compare the SAM's with a couple difference Alnico Altec speakers (414/802 combo) as well as a pair of Alnico Goodmans Triaxiom 212's.  If I can eliminate some of these drivers I can start to reclaim some of my space.

seikosha

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Re: Super 3XRS vs super Alnico monitor
« Reply #4 on: 27 Apr 2018, 12:42 pm »
I owned and loved my 3XRS's for a number of years.  Last year I replaced them with the SAM.  First of all, you won't lose any imaging/soundstaging between the 3XRS and the SAM.  Both are very good.  Perhaps the 3 gives you a tiny bit more pinpointing in the soundstage, but the Alnico gives you more depth and dimensionality.

As far as speed goes, yes, the 3xrs sounds faster.  You hear less of the "box" with the 3xrs vs. the SAM, but that said, the SAM is already VERY good in avoiding the box sound you get from so many speakers and it sounds faster than most speakers.

I've had so many single driver speakers in my room over the years, I've lost count and no question, the Omegas always come out on top.  I think the 3XRS would work fine for you.

PeterKK

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Re: Super 3XRS vs super Alnico monitor
« Reply #5 on: 27 Apr 2018, 06:43 pm »
Thank you very much for the very elaborate answer, really appreciated! Lots of good information there and things for me to consider. I will definitely consider the sub idea and I am now clear on the differences, thank you again!

I own or have owned a number of Omega speakers and can share my experience.  I'm in a 15' x 22' room (330 sq ft, or 30 sq meters) with high ceilings.  Amplifiers are tube and solid state, ranging from 4 to 25 wpc.

Speakers in rotation:

1.  Original Omega Super 3 (monitor, wide baffle, retrofitted with RS5 driver).
2.  Omega Super 3U (traded in).  This is a monitor that has the same cabinet volume as the Super 3XRS.
3.  Omega Super 3HO.
4.  Super Alnico Monitor.

I also own a pair of Rythmik F8 subwoofers that can cross over as high as 250hz.

I'll cut to the chase:  a single-driver RS5 speaker will run out of steam in a room that size.  I'm currently running my Super 3's in a near-corner location and while they sound great (better in some ways than the dual driver Super 3HO.) they quickly reach their dynamic limitations.  The Super 3HO does not seem to have the same dynamic limitations in the space, nor does the Super Alnico Monitor.

The Super 3U has the same cabinet volume as the Super 3XRS, and I will assume that the speakers can work somewhat interchangeably.

Specific Recommendations:

1.  If you want to use single-driver speakers (as in only one driver per cabinet) in a 25 sq meter room you will face some significant compromises.  You can listen near field, at quieter volumes, or use bass supplementation.

2.  The RS5- based speakers are really something special, but if you are trying to fill a large room you would probably be happier with the Super 3HO (dual driver) model.  I encounter no dynamic limitations with that speaker in my largish space.

3.  The Super 3XRS would really shine in a small space (like a 150 sq ft room).

4.  The Super Alnico Monitor is a really big stand mounted speaker.  It is closer in size to a JBL L100, Harbeth HL5+, or Yamaha NS690 than most modern monitor speakers.  I say this because it is a rather more imposing speaker than the 3 series speakers.  That being said, the larger driver works better in the large room and has a certain alnico magic that the 3 series does not.

If I were starting over I would follow this approach:

Get the Compact Alnico monitor.  It is the same size as the Super 3HO Monitor (just turned sideways) and works in many of the same applications.  I'm of the opinion that you will need bass augmentation in this large space, and using small monitors will allow for greatest flexibility.  I don't think you lose much bass compared with the SAM, but you gain a huge amount of flexibility.

I would also commit to stereo subwoofers.  I'm a big fan of Rhythmik for my needs, but in Europe you may find a better option.  I've settled in on 8" paper cones for the bass modules to better blend with the Omega drivers.  Thus far I have been successful.

EDIT:

I'm currently trying to focus two different systems in two rooms.  The larger space is also my living room and needs to meet different needs, including entertaining and home theater.  While we are not talking about large speakers, they can become overpowering when placed into a typical room.

In the living room/HT room, I am leaning toward the Super 3HO Monitors.  These have really outstanding proportions and were an instant hit with my GF.  They are out of rotation at the moment (hello SAM's!) but when they are they rest on an Isoacoustics stand, placed on a Rhythmik F8 with Herbies leveling feet attached.  This is a really nice looking stack that is not very visually imposing.  Other RS5-based speakers round out the HT array.

In the small room, I need to compare the SAM's with a couple difference Alnico Altec speakers (414/802 combo) as well as a pair of Alnico Goodmans Triaxiom 212's.  If I can eliminate some of these drivers I can start to reclaim some of my space.

celebrat

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 69
Re: Super 3XRS vs super Alnico monitor
« Reply #6 on: 27 Apr 2018, 07:33 pm »
Hello
Roscoe65's answer/opinion was very well thought and thorough - excellent recommendations. I have little to add but here goes.

I have had both the Alnico Monitor and (now) the Super HO Alnico Monitors. My room is 16' x 20' with the wall behind the listening spot open to the rest of the house (big space). The Super HO Alnico can be driven at significantly higher output levels than the single driver monitor.  Soundstage and speed are 2 of the most apparent strengths of either of these Omegas. I doubt you will find problems there. I also feel dual subs are really a necessity for optimal performance in a room your size. I get full range sound at listening levels as loud as I care to listen at. I use and very highly recommend a set of Open Baffle Subwoofers by GR Research/ Rhythmic. You can order parts and amps from GR Research and Danny can recommend where to purchase DIY subwoofer flatpacks. Not sure about shipping costs.

Just as an FYI, I recently added a set of Audiosmile super tweeters to my system and I am now enjoying the best sound I have ever had in my life. Good Luck!!


PeterKK

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 7
Re: Super 3XRS vs super Alnico monitor
« Reply #7 on: 29 Apr 2018, 12:39 pm »
Thanks a lot for your reply: clear and really appreciated!

Hello
Roscoe65's answer/opinion was very well thought and thorough - excellent recommendations. I have little to add but here goes.

I have had both the Alnico Monitor and (now) the Super HO Alnico Monitors. My room is 16' x 20' with the wall behind the listening spot open to the rest of the house (big space). The Super HO Alnico can be driven at significantly higher output levels than the single driver monitor.  Soundstage and speed are 2 of the most apparent strengths of either of these Omegas. I doubt you will find problems there. I also feel dual subs are really a necessity for optimal performance in a room your size. I get full range sound at listening levels as loud as I care to listen at. I use and very highly recommend a set of Open Baffle Subwoofers by GR Research/ Rhythmic. You can order parts and amps from GR Research and Danny can recommend where to purchase DIY subwoofer flatpacks. Not sure about shipping costs.

Just as an FYI, I recently added a set of Audiosmile super tweeters to my system and I am now enjoying the best sound I have ever had in my life. Good Luck!!