Dummy friendly audio PC, at a reasonable price?

ted_b · « **Reply #20 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 06:16 pm »

Aside from not having range issues, the advantages of the girder-like solutions includes the integration of the codes into a universal remote (like my Pronto).

The way I see it, pc-as-media server or pc-hd-as-redbook-transport is a fleeting ever-changing beast, and for someone to build a business case and start a new venture mfg'ing media servers is quite risky. The early adopter users are very pc-literate by nature and comfortable with mostly DIY (even semi-DIY like taking a new Dell and adding/swapping), and if the niche matures the big boys (Dell, etc.) will offer it off the shelf. Not to say there isn't room for VRS (there's always a subset of early adopters that will pay their way in) and the smaller networking companies (Squeezebox, etc). I think dummy-proof will happen, but only when the niche matures to the point where standard interfaces and features lists settle in. Until then, the interfaces will have so many "oh if it could only do that, or incorporate home automation, or burn and rip simultaneously, or...or...". So much for dummy proof.

Ted_B

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #21 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 06:49 pm »

After reading these three pages about pc's as media servers or players , I just can't get into this.

Having moved over the years from lp's, to tape's, to cd's, this will not be a move that I'll be looking forward to. Just my $.02........[/list:u]

nathanm · « **Reply #22 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 08:13 pm »

Quote

After reading these three pages about PCs as media servers or players, I just can't get into this.

Having everything "loaded" into a hard drive, picking songs from a screen....I'd rather have a disc in my hand, and a cover (be it small) to read. Then if the thing "crashes"...

Sure, but then you can't turn into a white or black silhouette and do amazing dance moves with your cool iPod.

Try doing a backflip with a pair of Magnepans strapped on your back.

But seriously, the current problem I see with computer-stored digital sound files is that the interface to play them sucks; it's slow, it's compromised and if you want to "share" music people don't follow ID3 tag standards worth a crap when making their MP3s. iTunes itself sucks, it's slower than molasses even with the latest hardware, iPods might be fast but you can't even read the fucking song title because of the tiny display. If the display, be it a computer monitor or a small LCD, LED display etc. cannot show the WHOLE damn filename in one eyeful what is the point? If scrolling through hundreds of songs is laggy and unresponsive then it just isn't any fun. You might as well start with song #1 and forget it.

I made a CD-R of MP3s which I can play on my Denon 3910. I thought it was pretty cool at first, to be able to eliminate the computer. It sounds good, but the interface screen sucks. Eleven fucking characters is all you get for your filename. Gee, thanks. It's only a little bit easier than if you tried to condense all the names of the bands and song titles onto a car license plate. Who's bright idea was this? Even if they used the whole width of the TV set that still ain't much to work with.

There needs to be some serious consideration given to how people are going to manage having their entire music collection in one device. You need to SEE all the information and be able to sort and browse through it instantly and without delay. It needs to run like hardware, not software. Every function needs to be accessible from a remote or from the hardware itself without having to turn on the damn TV set. Onscreen menus blow, they're just too damn sluggish. Everytime you use one you have to go through the entire tree, you can't go directly to the thing you want to adjust.

USER INTERFACE - that's where the time and money ought to go if companies want to really make any sort of all-in-one whatsamajigger box that's accepted by the general marketplace. Fuck tech support! If I have to get on the horn to some dude who barely speaks english just so I can "troubleshoot" my freaking music player we've made a quantum leap BACKWARDS in the technology arena. You shouldn't NEED a staff of people to answer phones because your product is a piece of shit. If you made it rock to start with, if you TESTED the damn thing, then you won't have that problem!

Jon L · « **Reply #23 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 08:36 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

After reading these three pages about pc's as media servers or players , I just can't get into this.
Having everything "loaded" into a hard drive, picking songs from a screen....I'd rather have a disc in my hand, and a cover (be it small) to read. Then if the thing "crash's".... .[/list:u]
But I guess it's the future..... ...can't stop progress . Now with all the downloads, and mp3 players, it will come naturally....poor sound will rein supreme. And as stated in the above post, the "big ...

Even though I don't like computers in general, the BIGGEST reason I'm sticking it out with Audio PC is simply MORE musical minutes per day. It's not even for superior sound per se (though it may happen eventually).

With conventional CDP with CD's, I would have to think of a CD I want to listne to, get up from my couch, walk over to my CD rack, fumble around awhile to find it, walk back to my CDP, open the jewel case, open the CD drawer, load the CD, then walk back to my couch, then push play.

Since each CD seems to have only a few songs I really like, after about 10-12 minutes, I have to think of another CD, get the old CD out, then walk back to my CD rack.

With my busy work schedule, I have probably 3-4 hours of actual serious listening time a day (if I'm lucky), and the Audio PC lets me use those precious hours to full effect. I just keep seated in my couch, select the songs I want from my seat, and I can even put it in "shuffle" and just close my eyes. I seriously can squeeze in at least 2-3X more songs this way.

It's also much more likely to rediscover songs you would never find otherwise from your CD rack, either by looking throught the list or during shuffle/random play. There's so much music hidden in our CD racks!

BTW, please don't confuse PC music with "inferior" music. I don't have a single MP3 file on my hard drive, nor will I ever. Lossless is here now.

ted_b · « **Reply #24 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 08:50 pm »

I just want to interject....
Hardrives-as-redbook-transports are NOT for MP3 or inferior sound goals. The reason they exist in my world is to get rid of the inherent jitter, rf/emi and on-the-fly error correction that a frickin rotating medium requires. Net...they really really do sound good. If the Big Boys, or anyone else for that matter, create these things just to make mp3's easier to hear, they are not getting it.

Yes, the user interface is the last frontier...and a very important one. A big reason why I love the White Album to this day is that I sat in front of two speakers, with the lyrics poster, the pull out pictures and a great gatefold album cover.....which doubled as a great tool to clean my seeds with..

Ted_B

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #25 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 08:58 pm »

Jon L

Quote

With conventional CDP with CD's, I would have to think of a CD I want to listne to, get up from my couch, walk over to my CD rack, fumble around awhile to find it, walk back to my CDP, open the jewel case, open the CD drawer, load the CD, then walk back to my couch, then push play.

Since each CD seems to have only a few songs I really like, after about 10-12 minutes, I have to think of another CD, get the old CD out, then walk back to my CD rack.

With my busy work schedule, I have probably 3-4 hours of actual serious listening time a day (if I'm lucky), and the Audio PC lets me use those precious hours to full effect. I just keep seated in my couch, select the songs I want from my seat, and I can even put it in "shuffle" and just close my eyes. I seriously can squeeze in at least 2-3X more songs this way.

So ....in other word's....your lazy !!!

Carlman · « **Reply #26 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 09:10 pm »

I thought the same as Lonewolf until I used Hantra's PC. It's the same effort... leaning to easier than cd's overall. I plan to organize my music by genre... instead of the complete disorder they're in now. I have books, binders, racks, and whatnot all full of cd's. I don't want this scenario any longer.

My wife borrows cd's occasionally and I borrow hers. I can easily add here cd's into my collection without disrupting her organization.

I couldnt' agree more with Ted's comments. The other major reason I'm going to the PC route is for the sound quality. It's better than my 1,k analog rig. It's better than multi-thousand dollar cd players, DAC's, etc. It's better in that there's no digital hash. The music from Hantra's PC does not sound digital.

I'm not lazy, I like listening to music. What's cool is that I can immediately read about the album playing on my screen if I so desire. It's pretty quick and easy. My current CD method doesn't allow for much insert-reading because they're all in books with the jewel cases stored in boxes in the attic.

To me, using a PC is a more efficient way to listen to music. I didn't think that was the case until I tried it....

zybar · « **Reply #27 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 09:21 pm »

Quote from: Carlman

I thought the same as Lonewolf until I used Hantra's PC. It's the same effort... leaning to easier than cd's overall. I plan to organize my music by genre... instead of the complete disorder they're in now. I have books, binders, racks, and whatnot all full of cd's. I don't want this scenario any longer.

My wife borrows cd's occasionally and I borrow hers. I can easily add here cd's into my collection without disrupting her organization.

I couldnt' agree more with Ted's comments. The other major ...

Plus if you are using a pc with an Internet connection, yuo have unlimited access to information on that cd and/or the artist.

It is a win-win all around!!

George

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #28 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 09:23 pm »

Ahhhhh, you computer guys !!!!!!!

Hantra · « **Reply #29 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 09:41 pm »

Nathan's argument can be made for PC's in general. It doesn't just apply to using PC's as media devices. For all the amazing technological advances we have made with more gigaflops, etc, we STILL have not improved on the interface. The interface is the same as it was 15 years ago. This will be the next 'Internet'. When people begin focusing on the interface, and improving it, we will see a revolution much like what the Internet was to the 90's.

Until then, we just keep building faster processors, cheaper RAM, and bigger hard drives. The problem with that is the developers get lazy with every single improvement. Is your PC any faster than it was in 1993?

Anyhow, I am using a PC because it sounds better than most digital rigs I have ever heard in my life. I would not hesitate to throw my PC all over any CDP or combo just to see what would happen. The most expensive digital rig I have heard is a new Accuphase combo, and it's damned good. But I do not feel apprehensive about saying my PC is better.

L8z,

B

JoshK · « **Reply #30 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 09:42 pm »

I am teedering with this idea myself and I like the idea of not rummaging through a thousand CDs trying to find the one CD I want. I also wanted to archive all my LPs to the HDs for easy playback and background listening.

The UI will be paramount, which is why I don't plan to put lots of bank into until I futz with it a bit. I also intend to run conventional and PC based sourced in parrallel, not selling one to fund the other. This way if I don't end up liking it I am not bound to it.

I think using Foobar as a playback engine while using a nice UI for searching and selecting seems doable, but I haven't begin to investigate as to which to use. I like the idea of using a two way remote or PDA as a remote. I really never cared for my Pronto remote because of the lack of tactile buttons, but I did like the customizeable display and programmability. If there was a remote that had the standard transport buttons plus a touch screen two way LCD for obtaining/displaying cover art/liner notes and visual searching I think I would abandon all my standard players and LP deck. Something like the SuperNudeList without having to store all the info on the remote, that is what the two way comm would be for.

thayerg · « **Reply #31 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 07:12 am »

Consider the mac mini with usb audio to a dac. All the hardware and software you need right in the box, vga and bvi video out. a lot closer to a plug and play htpc than many other quote unquote solutions. six hundred bucks if you go for the big disk, which i would.

EchiDna · « **Reply #32 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 09:43 am »

http://www.windowsfordevices.com/articles/AT8330067540.html

here is a pre-built system from HP... not in the market yet AFAIK, but should fit the bill of simple to use and hard to stuff up!

JLM · « **Reply #33 on:** 18 Jan 2005, 11:36 am »

EchiDna,

Now thats more of what I thought someone had to come up with someday soon, but apparently its not audiophile material. They've added couch potatoe convenience, but missed the chance to bring VRS quality of sound to the table.

CSMR · « **Reply #34 on:** 21 Jan 2005, 06:10 am »

Here's a nice silent machine if you have a home network (another computer storing the music). 1 PCI slot for a sound card.
http://www.maxspeed.com.au/products/8300.htm
Someone's selling one here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=45&threadid=1492816&enterthread=y

JLM · « **Reply #35 on:** 21 Jan 2005, 11:19 am »

CSMR,

In the case of this thread, please consider me as the dummy.

Well I see it's small, fanless, and comes with Windows XP. So how does this thing work? Where's the software? Did it say network? How exactly does that work? Where the display and user input devices? 256 MB would only hold about 300 CD's, what then? Can a sound board be added? Who's gonna put all this together and make sure it works months/years later? What would it sound like?

Even though I'm a computer dummy, I want very good sound. (The CD players I've been looking at are EEMMCD, Denon 2900/3910 w/ and w/o mods, and dAck v2 w/ modded Sony S7700 transport.)

Thanks for the lead.

CSMR · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 Jan 2005, 03:39 pm »

Quote from: JLM

Well I see it's small, fanless, and comes with Windows XP. So how does this thing work? Where's the software? Did it say network? How exactly does that work? Where the display and user input devices? 256 MB would only hold about 300 CD's, what then? Can a sound board be added? Who's gonna put all this together and make sure it works months/years later? What would it sound like?

Even though I'm a computer dummy, I want very ...

You won't fit much software onto 256Mb. It has WMP, and you can add foobar. It will have an analog port for display and mouse and keyboard ports, I suppose.
256Mb will take less than one CD. You need to store the music on another computer - somewhere where it won't be heard. This computer can then access the music over the network.
The computer doesn't influence sound quality, only the sound card. The only requirement of an audio computer is silence, which is hard to attain. You could consider an EMU sound card. This has good digital and analog output, but I don't know if the analog output would compete with what you are looking at.
A squeezebox is another option, probably a better one if you don't already have a home network.