Dummy friendly audio PC, at a reasonable price?

JLM · « **on:** 4 Jan 2005, 12:11 pm »

Does such a thing exist?

I'm sitting on a Sony S7700 that I could mod and add a DAC, but the total cost could easily run $2000. Our new house (with dedicated listening room) will be finished this summer, so I'm looking to build a new system for it (already have the speakers).

I've read (tried to comprehend) about the Revelation audio PC and DIY audio PC options and am greatly intrigued, but can't get a handle on what its all about, how exactly it all works, and would be helpless the first time it burped.

Why can't someone come up with a friendly audio PC with comparible sound quality for the same price or less? I'm surprised that there isn't more interest in this type of product from a consumer and enterprising knowledgable bunch of guys like you. Shouldn't there be a demand for something like this?

shokunin · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Jan 2005, 05:17 pm »

Quote from: JLM

I've read (tried to comprehend) about the Revelation audio PC and DIY audio PC options and am greatly intrigued, but can't get a handle on what its all about, how exactly it all works, and would be helpless the first time it burped.

It's about marketing and selling a profitable product. The first time it burps, who do you call... tech support. This is where it gets expensive for the company who made/sold the audio pc. If an audio pc that has say $1200 in parts, sold for less than $2000, in my opinion, there's not much room there for profit. You have to take into account for returns, warranty, tech support, inventory, labor, packaging, manuals, and taxes to uncle sam.

I know the VRS seems expensive, but in reality, it kind of needs to be that expensive to support the user base properly. On the other end of the spectrum is the DIY crowd where cost of parts is the price that they are willing to pay for such a product and not much more.

Personally, I'm more of DIY kind of guy and it really isn't too difficult to put one together. Easiest way might be to buy a laptop and Steve's EA Offramp/ freeway / + your DAC of your choice. This way you won't need to configure a remote control and can have the laptop right next to you to queue up your next song. You would need to configure iTunes or Foobar, however.

If you need more space, then a home wifi network and another PC in another room with larger disks can hold your entire CD collection.

Jon L · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Jan 2005, 08:49 pm »

PC Audio is definitely not "plug and play." Getting the right hardware together with right software in a quiet PC, then somehow getting everything to like each and actually play high-quality music is a LOT of work.

I really wouldn't recommend it for a PC-Audio novice, as it will eat up a lot of time and cause endless frustration. I got into PC audio as a relative newbie b/c I didn't know better, and I'm going through a lot of pains right now.

If you are already a expert user of EAC/Foobar/ASIO/FLAC, then it makes sense to build a nice system, but I strongly recommend you try to audition a PC with a high quality internal sound card (such as Lynx) and PC with USB outboard DAC to decide if you even want to go this route and which you prefer.

P.S. Shokunin, how's your new system coming along? If you are good with Foobar/ASIO/FLAC, I coudl use some help here locally in OC...

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 11:41 am »

Thanks guys,

Seems like audio PC technology has a ways to go before becoming mass marketed.

M. Barnes has mentioned his fanless PC and audio software many times in his newsletter, but doesn't seem close to retailing a nicely packaged playback system.

Wonder how long until such a product becomes viable?

Carlman · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 01:38 pm »

I think an Audio PC that doesn't look or act like a PC would be the answer... something like an 'Xbox' would be the way to go for what you're asking. It'll be a while before you see one, though.

WerTicus · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 02:17 pm »

haha i was about to come in here and reply that there is no such thing and a dummy's pc at a reasonable price

your going to get ripped off no doubt!

having said that here is some advice... dont buy a dell.

your going to want a good sound card and a good power supply in what ever your getting however... at least a sound blaster audigy two which can play DVDA btw .. if you have at least a 1gighz processor.

jermmd · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 02:37 pm »

I disagree with the above. First of all, Dell makes a great PC that you couldn't build yourself for cheaper. You do need to upgrade the video card and sound card but otherwise the Dell is reliable, quiet, well built and has support. Everything you need for a superior HTPC can easily be bought for less than $1000. The only problem is the dummy part. You have to be willing to open the computer and add hardware, load drivers and software, and configure things (this is the only really difficult part). We are definitely at a point in technology where the PC has a place in everyones home theater and I bet a PC will be a part of everyones entertainment center in the next 5 years. It just has to be made dummy proof.

Joe M.

ted_b · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 02:48 pm »

Quote from: WerTicus

haha i was about to come in here and reply that there is no such thing and a dummy's pc at a reasonable price

your going to get ripped off no doubt!

having said that here is some advice... dont buy a dell.

your going to want a good sound card and a good power supply in what ever your getting however... at least a sound blaster audigy two which can play DVDA btw .. if you have at least a 1gighz processor.

I beg to differ that the Audigy2 family are good sound cards (however, they are great game cards). I own one, and yes it plays DVD-A, but as an audio pc foundation it is, IMO, the wrong way to go. It does not produce a bit perfect playback, and forces a 48k upsample to its poor upsampler. Spend a few minutes over at the head-fi compuer-as-source forum. For serious pc audio start with a Lynx or RME card, but heck, a $25 Chaintech (my current standard card) sounds wayyy better than the Audigys when properly cofigured (for example, Foobar, 24/96, Asio or Kernel Streaming).

Ted_B

csero · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 02:50 pm »

I built one for myself for a very specific application. I'm not in the dummy category with computers

and even the config could do what I wanted, I decomissioned it soon and returned to hi-fi boxes. I just could not stand the pain of PC in everyday listening.
The biggest problem is to make an easy to use, convenient setup with just the features I need, no more no less. There are always much more options and headache that I need/want. Just like the windows word processors...

brj · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 02:59 pm »

Dell makes a good product for a good price, but they do have some disadvantages. For example, they tend to use custom parts. I've had several Dell owning associates replace an entire computer because the power supply died and they couldn't buy an off-the-shelf replacement due to Dell's use of custom connectors. (The computers were a few years old and Dell didn't sell replacement power supplies.)

Another bit of advice that applies to a Dell computer or any other... if you can at all afford it, get a computer high enough up the product line that it no longer uses components (video, audio, ethernet, etc.) integrated into the motherboard. Computers of this class tend not to have much room for expansion, and if one of the integrated components dies, the whole motherboard is a write-off. (Note that many computers further up the price line have connections for every component known to man - video, sound, ethernet, firewire, etc. - AND integrated components. This is usually not a problem, becuase you can disable the integrated components in the BIOS.)

Marbles · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 03:09 pm »

I want to use the PC as a transport, that is load the music on the HD, play it back with a USB to SPDIF (see Empirical Audio) converter to my DAC.

What I want is a remote control for the unit, like a RC for any other source though.

Is that possible?

I will copy to HD with EAC and play back with Foobar 2K.

My PC is only about 20 feet from my listening position and in eye sight, so a normal remote would not normally be a problem.

I don't really want to go the laptop wireless control route, nor do I want to go the Viewsonic Airpanel route, just a plain old remote.....

ted_b · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 03:14 pm »

You could use Girder and a diy/bought remote.

Girder will let you control/program almost anything on your pc and you can also download other peoples configs if you dont want to do your own.

www.girder.nl

Ted_B

jermmd · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 04:11 pm »

How about simply using a wireless keyboard/mouse combo? That's what I do.

Joe M.

Marbles · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 04:14 pm »

Thanks for those replies guys.

Looks like either might work.

Joe, how far do you sit from your PC?

Can you see the screen or do you remember the code to pause etc...?

mcgsxr · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 04:16 pm »

I have read that some of you here are not Dell fans.

That aside, I bought one of their PC's last January, and popped for the remote and Dell Media s/w. Should I ever have this unit near my HT, it can easily be connected, and the remote looks and feels just like a regular one - it conects via usb, so it should be relatively common.

I presently do not have connectivity between PC and HT/2 channel systems, due to distance, and lack of interest on my part - mostly the distance - there are 2 full floors between them, and I would need not only a wireless router, but also an extender, and for now, that is $$ I would rather not spend.

When my daughter graduates from crib to real bed, I will lose my office, so the PC will suddenly be in the same room as my HT/2 channel system. THEN I will buy a better sound card, and output digital signal to my Monarchy DIP, then onto the Mensa, and into the system.

Carlman · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 04:26 pm »

I use extension cables for my keyboard, mouse and monitor. Currently, I'm using a 17" Sony standard monitor but I hope to get a small flat screen before too long. I've tested this setup with a friend's PC and it'll work well for me. I forget where I got these long cables but they are well made and are easy to hide... PM me if you want to go that route.

I should be getting my new PC in a few days. I"ll take photos of the setup.

-C

jermmd · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 04:45 pm »

My HTPC is connected to my 56" RPTV via component and to my Outlaw pre/pro via digital and 6 channel analog. I sit about 10 feet from the TV and use the TV screen as a monitor. The screen is perfectly clear and readable and as easy to navigate with the wireless mouse/keyboard as any computer. I will post a picture of my setup if I can figure out how to.

Joe M.

zybar · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 04:47 pm »

Quote from: jermmd

How about simply using a wireless keyboard/mouse combo? That's what I do.

Joe M.

I thought the limit is generally 6-8' for wireless keyboard/mouse.

George

Hantra · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 04:55 pm »

Quote from: shokunin

I know the VRS seems expensive, but in reality, it kind of needs to be that expensive to support the user base properly.

I agree with that. Even talking to Vince a while back, I told him the same thing. You gotta admire him for taking the risk, but I think he's insane.

Knowing that most audiophiles in that income bracket are freaks, and knowing the hell they put friend's of mine through who are in the audio industry, the last thing I want to do is sell them a PC. But someone has to do it I suppose. . .

Quote from: shokunin

Easiest way might be to buy a laptop and Steve's EA Offramp/ freeway / + your DAC of your choice. This way you won't need to configure a remote control and can have the laptop right next to you to queue up your next song. You would need to configure iTunes or Foobar, however.

Easy is good, but that whole Offramp thing is amazingly overpriced. I cannot imagine how that could actually cost $50. For less than the price of just the Offramp, one can buy a Lynx L22, and be way ahead of the game, and in front of about anything I have heard.

If you still want to use an outboard DAC, then just get a mobo or PC with a SPDIF out. Even the new Latitudes have that.

shokunin · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 05:27 pm »

Quote from: zybar

I thought the limit is generally 6-8' for wireless keyboard/mouse.

George

For IR and Bluetooth, the range is pretty short. There are RF based wireless kb/mouse that have ranges up to 100ft. I use a gyration RF model (I think up to 50ft) in my HT, and works alright, but it doesn't get a lot of use anyways.