[Bemopti123]

I am pondering, from all the experienced members out here, what is the consensus in the best simple, op amp based amplifier.  

From these, I would like to disassociate the Final Music 6, which I consider a totally different breed, for it is completely battery or tube regulated power supply driven and it puts out about 10-15 watts clipping.

So, we have a number of choices:

47 Labs gaincard, at 25 watts per channel....have heard that it can have some RF interference issues, and it might be the case because I once owned the little sibling to it, the Shigaraki integrated.

Zone Amp 1...made in Canada....more watts, I think it was 40 and different aesthetics....Has been out for about 2 years.

Scott Dixon grey boxes, either stereo....20 watts or mono, at 40 watts, costing a paltry $400-700 for either version.

Channel Islands Audio VB-1?  Monoblocks, at 40 watts, costing $999.00

and any other ones that can be comparable.  

PS:  I did not think about the Rowland Concerta, for it's design and technological construct is so entirely over the top, and with an output rating of 150 watts, not easily compared with any of the usual OP AMP choices I have described....at the price, no questions or comparison can be made.  

Any experiences?

[JLM]

Don't forget the IRD monoblocks.

IMO the 47 and AZ are expensive audio jewelry.

The CIA and SN more practical.  The SN is more hair shirt.

Dan Wright sells and uses the CIA.  He loves it and doesn't know how to mod it to sound better.  (That says something, eh?)  It has a couple of nice features beyond the SN.

[Dmason]

Abit off topic Bemopti, but if you are planning on keeping the 208 Zhorns, you should at least try the ClariT with it. Dynamics are out the window. A real horn weapon, I would think. 6 of the biggest watts on the planet. If I had the room, I would have 208 based horns. And the ClariT. Two people I know are using Uber tube amps in the same league as your new one and swear it supercharges the signal. They really love it. With horns? Right over the top, IMHO!! I couldn't imagine how fun that would sound. I wish I had 208EZ horns and I would be happy. I just don't have the room.

I have heard the Nixon Gainclones, and they sound wonderful. They are the deal. They are all you need in tailor made Op Amps. Very nice and tubey. Not tubby. If you have your heart set on GC amps, talk to Scott.

[JLM]

King of the Op-amps?  My guess is the Audio Zone AMP-2 based on various 6 moon reviews.

But interestingly I just noticed visiting the Audio Oasis site that the new, slightly lower grade stereo integrated recently reviewed by 6 moons (AMP-STi) is listed at only $995 USD (same as the corresponding stereo power amp AMP-ST).  6 moons had the AMP-STi listed at $1395.  A misprint?

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/audiozone2/zone.html

http://www.audiooasis.com/

[Bemopti123]

Saw the amps at the Oasis site.  Interesting.   Here is my take on what is happening in the OP amp manufacturing site.  

1-47 Labs and their Gaincard has taken over the designer or branding image aspect of marketing.  Not withstanding their reported problems with picking up RF like an antenna and other qualms such as bad binding posts, it is the one synonimous with OP amp designs.  With all of this, comes with a price.  I love their design better than the one of the other manufacturers.  The price is the sticking point.

2-CIA, their monoblocks are too new and do not have serious reviews except that Dan Wright of Modwright has given it a GO, especially when these 1K monoblocks have replaced his reference Sim Audio amps, the W-3, smaller sibling to the iron fisted W-5 with retail price at almost 5K.

3-The Scott Dixon design are the cheapest of them all category, which opens up to many tempting possibilities of getting them a go.  Cannot be too bad if you spend about $400 for something of the same wattage that Designer boutique #1 above charges around $3300, with used prices commanding around 1.5K.  The Hair shirt comment?  JLM, can you elaborate in this?

4-The Audio Amp ones, their fit and finish are supposed to surpass 47 Labs, which makes me think that they must be something, but then, having some 47 Labs pieces (Shigaraki gear), the Audio Amp ones must be really well built....BUT, I just do not like their looks.  I prefer plain boxes in all senses....and the 47 Labs are fit finished and also the black is pretty impressively machined.

Having spent obscene amounts of moneyjust recently on some audio gear and drivers out of impulse, I am stuck with wondering what would be the sounding I would get when I stick one of these OP Amps with my F200A drivers, which I am YET to make cabinets for.  Maybe I should get the cabinets before I start wondering about the driving equipment.

The Clari-T-amp sound also interesting.  Nevertheless, why am I not too attracted to the idea of digital amps.  Maybe I should jump into the digital band wagon with something dirty cheap....but the Sonic Impact amp just "feels" too cheap to me.  Do you understand this feeling Dmason?  Maybe I have been used to eating too much Op chip amp and other amp type of "Caviar"....Maybe just invest $80 on his incredible digital amp from Sharp that is on sale at Overstock.com.......There are soooo many possibilities and yet, so little space and time for all of these audio creations.

Well, this is my story.   I sure would like to have my F200As in cabinets before I do anything.  JLM, you drove all the way there to pic up the cabinets?  It would take me 21 hours one way for me to get these cabinets, if I go there.  Maybe I can stop by Atlanta, over the Summer to visit my mother and then, do a detour to Brine's place to get this going.   Or maybe, I can use a freight service....Which is better?  What do you think are the limitations of Fedex, UPS(hate these people) and other delivery services for a pair of assembled cabinets?

[lonewolfny42]

I have heard the Nixon Gainclones, and they sound wonderful. They are the deal. They are all you need in tailor made Op Amps. Very nice and tubey. Not tubby. If you have your heart set on GC amps, talk to Scott.
   

I agree !! I've owned a pair of the 40 watt mono's for over a year....an excellent value, and the size of a small brick......[/list:u]

[/list:u]

Well built, heavy for their size. And they sound good. Last seen at Phil's Xmas Party Rave...... [/list:u]

[JLM]

Bemo,

Good summary.  I had a DIY gainclone in house for a few weeks last fall and it picked up 94.9 FM easily and it also had a bad power supply hum.  Don't know how "new" the C I Audio amps are (maybe two years), the digital amps have only been out a couple of months.  IMO inexpensive digital options (other than the little Clari-T or Boulder battery amps) are cheap.  Fixing them isn't cheap, but as is the one I auditioned was "stupid good" for the price.  But build quality of inexpensive digital receivers are leagues below the F200A drivers.  IMO the 5 wpc battery powered digital amps are just too small for the F200A drivers in most applications.

S/N hair shirt:  no frills, no cosmetics, no features, no tweaks, a DIY inspired design.  It should be the cheapest of the above Op amp options.  Not a slam, just observations.  To each their own.

F200A:  the only extended range driver with deep bass, very musical, good balance between plenty of detail without making "ordinary" recordings unlistenable, beaming of highs over emphasized IMO (I greatly prefer not having a whizzer cone).

Bob Brines cabinets:  good guy, really knows his designs, very good woodworking skills.  I combined a family vacation with picking up the speakers last summer and so was only about 5 hours out of my way.  Another owner of the FTA-2000 from Calif. suffered UPS damage.  As mine were the first pair I wouldn't trust them to any shipper.  Don't know who to recommend for shipping.  Coming up with a bullet proof shipping box would make the total package very big and heavy, making finding a shipper that much harder.

[Dmason]

Bemo, I didn't realize you had the F200A drivers we spoke about. Nice stuff they are indeed. If that is the case, the ClariT is not enough juice for them. Do not rule these things out at all as cheap. Cheap does not equal inexpensive. Having said that, when I find the right amp for my F200A's, it won't be any less than about 30-50 watts, and no tube amps.

If you are going for Bob's FTA2000, why not find a good cabinetmaker in your area? Speaker cabinets are not much of a challenge at all to someone who does custom kitchen installs. Bob sells the plans, which are nicely detailed and the beauty thing about Bob's TL designs is that they are dead simple. The dough you saved on shipping and crating and insurance you could plow into some burled Elm, or some such fantastic veneer, and make these speakers a real long term work of art, worthy of the machines they are intended to house. Like the 208 horns, the FTA2000 is just to large for my place without being imposing.

[mcgsxr]

Dmason - I assume that you have tried the Teac tripath amp with those drivers - not quite what you were looking for?  Good enough to be a stop-gap for this gentleman, while he recovers financially?  $99 for these is just a steal, with every speaker I have tried them with.

I find the stock Teac good, but the modded ones are breaking in wonderfully, and the treble is returning to delightfully smooth again - only about 350 hours more to go...

[Dmason]

I may have to get another Teac T amp. Yes, I had one but I gave it to someone of the starving student class of audiophool. Just that I am hooked on the sound that battery power makes for T amps. Failing a juicier batTery amp, I guess I would try one of Scott's monoblock Gainclones of 40 watts, and an output chooser installed in my "preamp." I remember really liking what I heard, and I love the DACkit and TubeDAC. Scott takes existing excellent designs, makes them better, simpler, and less money. Besides, if LoneWolfy likes it , it must be good.

 I like amplifiers that come in Hammerite boxes from Hammond, and DAC's that come in beautiful blow moulded black plastic. If I owned the Nixon GC's they wouldn't be they only Hammond I owned.. This tells me it is all about the sound, and no thoughts to waste on machined alloy, pretty metal face plates, and audio jewelrey that do nothing for what it is all about. (At least to me, the Anti Label-whore) And last, Scott Nixon has been at this for years and years. The Audio Zone amp is a product of aircraft engineering and design minds, and brought to you by the good folks at Boeing, Downsview, Ontario. Nixon is a minted audio guru.

[lonewolfny42]

if LoneWolfy likes it , it must be good

Well, don't take my word for it..... [/list:u]
Other's that have owned the Nixon's or heard them...Hantra, byteme, Carlman. Now they have some good ear's...... [/list:u]

[gonefishin]

Hi there

   I was just wondering if DIY is an option for you?  The gainclone amps are simple to build and you could tweak components and design as you see fit.  Transformer or battery power is up to you...along with whatever boutique parts you would like to try.
   But, it certainly does cut down on the experimenting with various component brands (caps etc) if you go with an already built design from a competent designer.  then again...the experimentation is not only fun...but it can lead to an obsession all its own  


   Two great DIY chipamp web pages are gaincloneDIY and DIYAudio chip amp forum.


  dan

[Dmason]

Gonefishin' has the right idea. Even if you met DIY half way, you can get the stuffed boards for cheap, a nice jumbo PSU, some phat storage caps, like Black Gates, and have yourself a merry little time with an amp that will take ALOT of the so called "high end" units straight to the woodshed. Scott Nixon sells the assembled boards for a hun'

And with all that  dough left over you can go equally cheap on a pair of those crummy Edgarhorns, with TAD woofers, and sit down and listen to some real music.

[JLM]

The DIY gainclone I home auditioned last fall had lots of 60 Hz hum from the power supply and picked up 94.9 FM (about 50 dB).  So I'm not real convinced about DIY.

BTW the amp sounded very nice beyond these issues and I'll probably buy a chip amp in the next few months.

[Bemopti123]

As owners of the F200A driver based speakers, what was your experience in powering them with high power SS amplifiers?  I do not see myself spending close to 1K, after having been in an audiophile binge spending of several thousand K, and I think I need to get some cabinets first.  So, I wonder what would be the result of pairing it with my already available DNA-225 amp, weighting in at 200 watts at 8 ohms is power.  Do you think it will overdrive the driver or simply I will not crank it as loud, because I will not be able to withstand the sound pressure after a while?  Any comments on this, please let me know.  My other weapon of choice if the Final Music 6 with about 17 watts of glorious OP amp power MAx, before clipping.  

I am currently searching for a cabinet or speaker maker around NY who can do this cabinet jobs for me.  

In snowing, sleeting NY,

Paul

[TomekZ]

I certainly love these chip amps! For a year I listened to the 47 Labs Shigaraki and it allways seemed to win over all challengers, mostly tube amps. This amp, my brother now has. In place of it are three (four) Gainclones. One is a pair of Scott Nixon 20 mono blocks. The other two are by homebrew DIY. The one is the same one that JLM had tried for a while: the humming powersupply has been replaced with a silent dual mono supply; the two different supplies sounded different. The second homebrew has a monster seven inch wide torodial powersupply, and sounds very powerful, but perhaps not as refined. Then there is the Scott Nixon, made by him, amps; these sound the warmest and smoothest, warmer even than the 47 Labs Shigaraki, but perhaps do not have as open a midrange. So this makes a total of five different amps and each do sound different, but each do sound very good, very smooth, very open, very liquid. The speakers that they drive are Jordan JX92s transmission lines and Fostex FE 168 E Sigma backloaded horns, both single driver speakers.

[JLM]

Paul,

The Final Music 6 could work and is reported to be a very fine amp.  Why not just wire it up to the raw driver and see if the output (midrange/highs only of course) is enough for you.

[Bemopti123]

Good recommendation JLM.  I think I will experiment with the F200As free air this weekend.

[Hantra]

If your speakers are a pretty linear load, the Nixon monoblocks are insane!  In fact, my speakers are the hardest load I have ever driven, and I was fine with them for a long time until I heard what more power would do with them.  

They are just dead quiet, and very fast and detailed.  Lots of texture.  I think Scott's layout is really cool too and has a supershort signal path.

HTH,

B

[thayerg]

Everyone forgets the Jolida 301 gainclone integrated. three fifty stock or response audio does a mod for one sixty more. It's small and they've improved the cosmetics. One of the great values in hifi.