NEW Eddie LE Near Completion

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Evoke

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NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« on: 23 Mar 2018, 11:18 pm »
The Ruby has been a hit both in performance and in looks. The new tweeter is amazing with the hybrid crossover. And the aluminum faceplate plays a real role in imaging.


You can see below the aluminum plate for the EDDIE LE. It will also feature the black gloss cabinet like Ruby. What else is new are some tweaks to the woofer, hybrid crossover and mid-tweeter panel. The new tweeter is a planar. It sounds really good.


So I have the drivers and faceplates just need polished and grained. The cabinets are on order. Did I mention on order? I really dislike cabinet guys - they can be so flaky!


Stay tuned. We're hopefully showing at the LA show - if the cabinet maker yada yada! :-)


 

cementhead

Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #1 on: 24 Mar 2018, 08:34 pm »
Looking forward to the finished product and reviews. We will be talking soon! :drool:

Evoke

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #2 on: 25 Mar 2018, 01:12 am »
Looking forward to the finished product and reviews. We will be talking soon! :drool:


Thanks :-)  The proto tests met all expectations. I'm hopeful that adding gloss black will make all the difference LOL. But seriously, having a technologically matched tweeter without the transformer of a ribbon is amazing. The Ruby was the first to show that off. The original Eddie sounded really great and I liked the sonic signature - just like the last 2 crossovers I designed before producing it.


One XO was VERY analytical. The other was a bit on the warm side of neutral. Loved both but everyone on the blind panel chose the analytical.


The planar vs. ribbon is the same. The ribbon is awesome - but the new planar matches the sonic signature of the mid. In that sense it's more analytical.

mresseguie

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #3 on: 25 Mar 2018, 04:37 am »
I'm looking forward to pictures of the new Eddie. Are the cabinet dimensions the same as the first Eddie?

Evoke

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #4 on: 25 Mar 2018, 05:17 pm »
I'm looking forward to pictures of the new Eddie. Are the cabinet dimensions the same as the first Eddie?


The dimensions are actually a bit smaller. 22″ Tall x 9″ Wide x 15″ Deep. The cabinet directly resembles Ruby in appearance. They will weigh in at about 40 pounds each. The woofer has been slightly modified to match the smaller enclosure. It's within 3 Hz of the other.


The original Eddie had an F3 of 32 Hz. That said, F6 and F10 are equally important - they tell more about "in room response". The original Eddie made it will into the 20's. The new Eddie will do the same - BUT - the driver tweak and new cabinet make for better damping show it should be more defined throughout its range. Ruby taught us a lot.


The picture below makes me so happy. These faceplates are REALLY expensive. Anyone who has worked with CNC and metal and finishing knows that. This is 1/2" American aluminum. You are seeing it before the finish is completed.


I don't charge markup on this faceplate. It's included with Eddie at cost. A pair of them would increase the retail price of the speakers by over $1000/pr. The performance is so improved I'd rather take a hit than compromise the sound...


 





srb

Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #5 on: 25 Mar 2018, 05:27 pm »
Is a countersunk rebate to flush mount the drivers yet to be machined, or are the drivers going to be surface mounted?

Evoke

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #6 on: 25 Mar 2018, 05:57 pm »
Is a countersunk rebate to flush mount the drivers yet to be machined, or are the drivers going to be surface mounted?





That's a great question. They will be surface mounted. If we avoid the debate on the differences between flush and surface for now - let me explain several things we looked at.


When we tested various prototypes there were pluses and minuses to both approaches. Currently we machine the faceplate on one side. To do flush, the rear machining is actually about twice as hard as the front. First, the F118 needs to be broken down into naked drivers - no problem. Then they get mounted from behind. They have to be torqued down to bond them to the frame. As the aluminum is soft for that kind of application that means welding a nut for all mounting points. ARGH. Then there is chamfering the face etc.


The current benefit of the surface mount is that when the drivers are bolted to the aluminum the structure becomes rigid and resonance free. It's seriously solid.


One of my goals for Evoke is to offer high performance at a reasonable price. Trust me, I considered this. I also thought a matching aluminum back plate would be awesome. But when you add all this up you are talking a retail price in the $7,000's plus. The math of business is isn't fair.






mresseguie

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #7 on: 18 Jun 2018, 05:50 pm »
Can you offer an update?

Regards,

Michael

Evoke

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #8 on: 18 Jun 2018, 08:57 pm »
Can you offer an update?

Regards,

Michael


Thanks for asking, Michael -


So here's a really uncensored update. I may be crazy but hope people find my honesty refreshing.


The final crossover is done - totally awesome. I couldn't be happier. The test version, of course, was designed from a pile of Solen and other parts. The FINAL will feature Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil caps, hand wound inductors and Vishay resistors. I got them in, had a drink after writing that check and am building the first two boards now. Very pricey - but I think the right choice for a speaker like this.


The first pair of cabinets are here to. They look great. Now I'm waiting for a due date and minimum order requirement. That is probably the worst problem in speaker production - cabinets. EVOKE speakers are not mass production so I can't buy 500 a time. That can slow production down.


The aluminum faceplates have been the death of me. I refinished them 3 times before I was satisfied with the graining and finish. They look great. I have a pair in my hands for production, and the balance are arriving on a pallet by truck. They are HEAVY and will be off loaded by a forklift.


The actual faceplate on the F118 planar (mid and tweeter) was initially rejected by me. They are being redone too.


So this has been a labor of love. I'm charging off all the reworks to development to avoid increasing the price of the speakers. If I didn't the MSRP would most likely go up a grand a pair. I won't do that.


I should have 0001 and 0002 completed in a few weeks. Interest is high and two of my distributors are ordering based on the original Eddie performance.


I hope this answers your question - and maybe then some :-)  Drop me a note if anything else comes to mind.


Thanks,
Mark








Wind Chaser

Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #9 on: 18 Jun 2018, 09:11 pm »
What is the expected price to be for a pair?

Evoke

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #10 on: 18 Jun 2018, 10:22 pm »
The original Eddie (Eddie Classic) retailed at an introductory price of $2,995 a pair with Solen caps. With upgraded damping and Mundorf Supreme caps it retailed of $3,495 to $3,995. Initially I sold it pretty low to introduce the product to the audio community. I made virtually nothing on the product.


The new Eddie LE is in a black gloss cabinet, has the new voiced and time-aligned tweeter (custom baffle and proximity etc.), silver wire, WBT terminals, high end hybrid damping and the Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil caps. I would offer a lower priced version - but no one ever ordered it that way. So I'm targeting $4,495 BUT won't know for sure until the final bill of materials is calculated from building 001 and 002.


That may seem high - but compared with a fully loaded Eddie Classic it's not much more and is A LOT MORE speaker. And I'll admit - there's some profit there for me.


If I marked it up like most companies it would most likely push $7,000. And when I developed it - I targeted a speaker that sells for about three times the price. So far, Eddie LE offers superior engineering and quality. Sonically, there's no comparison.


Sorry for rambling. You can imagine what it's like talking to me on the phone LOL


Tx,
Mark

charmerci

Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #11 on: 18 Jun 2018, 10:48 pm »

Sorry for rambling. You can imagine what it's like talking to me on the phone LOL



 :scratch:  Huh? Whaaa? This is audio site filled with obsessives. Long? Hardly. Found it rather brief actually.


We're all wishing you much success!

Evoke

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #12 on: 18 Jun 2018, 10:55 pm »

 :scratch:  Huh? Whaaa? This is audio site filled with obsessives. Long? Hardly. Found it rather brief actually.


We're all wishing you much success!


Thanks Charmerci! We learned a lot from RUBY. The tweeter was in so many ways better than Eddie's original true ribbon. We also did a hybrid crossover in Ruby. The imaging is stupid-good!  So that's what started the new tweeter and narrower baffle for Eddie LE. And I'm nuts but the silver/oil caps raise the bar a LOT.


Eddie Classic is totally sold out except my personal pair. There are a few pair available at one of our international dealers. We've bought them back to satisfy some audiophiles that have/(still) really wanted them.


M




simon wagstaff

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #13 on: 19 Jun 2018, 01:49 am »
What is the crossover point between the midrange and woofer?
Thanks!

Evoke

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #14 on: 19 Jun 2018, 02:02 am »
What is the crossover point between the midrange and woofer?
Thanks!


Great question. And I've never answered it. There are a lot of preconceptions about that point. A reviewer from one of the top magazines whispered to me privately - 'that's an incredible hybrid - I can't identify the crossover point'. And that's the idea.


There are several factors - voicing the mid planar to the mid bass, how the woofer is tuned, topology of the crossover (separate from the specific number) and MMS - that's a very big component. The MMS of the Eddie LE woofer is half that of comparable drivers. It's very fast, has wide bandwidth and exhibits no bad habits in the band used.


About the only planar that went low was the Infinity EMIM. Arnie loved messing with the laws of physics. To get it low, the diaphragm was loose to make the excursion. That created all sorts of problems. Even with an array - they don't move a lot of air. His speakers were always reviewed as being lean in the mid bass. This is almost a good thing as 100 - 400 hz is typically a nightmare in like 90% of the rooms. That said, it's important to move the right amount of air at any given speaker.


I can go on about that. It's not really complicated but it seems to me that a lot of designers overlook some basic realities. What do they say - to avoid drowing swim with the current? That holds true in a lot of things. If you obey the over-riding laws of physics and do some smart things it ends up better than cheating somewhere. No matter what you do - you have to pay the price somewhere - usually in unraveling the recording and releasing music back into the room.


M

simon wagstaff

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #15 on: 2 Jul 2018, 01:39 pm »
OK, I guess you won't answer, fair enough.

The reason that I asked is that I had a pair of Radio C1.2 for a little while. The crossover point to the ribbon was around 1.8khz? NO matter what you do I don't think you will get detail out of a cone the way you will with a ribbon or other planar driver.

In the past month I picked up a pair of VMP"S RM2 and 626 ribbons. The neo panels are crossed over at 280hz and one of the things that made/makes VMPS special is this low crossover point and the detail the neopanel deliver.

I will be checking these out once they are available for demo here in the D.C. area.

Evoke

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Re: NEW Eddie LE Near Completion
« Reply #16 on: 2 Jul 2018, 05:25 pm »



Morning, Simon -


I can't comment to the speaker you referenced. But in a two-way crossing over a tweeter at a lower rate there should be improved resolution. You will see crossovers anywhere from 1,800 to 3,500 Hz as common in such applications.


I find your comment "No matter what..." interesting. I am sure there are things that can be done, if not by me, but by someone else to convince you differently or modify your way of thinking on a variety of issues.


Now this isn’t just you - it’s me too. There are many times I am rigid and set in stone about my thoughts. That changes really fast when an expert shares something that makes (my) jaw drop and then say, “Oh, crap”.


It’s helpful to look at facts that bypass our collective egos and opinions. That is very hard to do for anyone.


As for VMPS… Brian was a good friend. So I say none of what follows to show any disrespect or to piss off every VMPS lover in the universe - which includes ME by the way!


There has been an enormous conversation/controversy over the stated crossover frequency of 280 Hz on his speakers. I would only suggest that you remove a woofer and disconnect the terminals. Then run a sine wave sweep from 200 - 2,500 Hz at 89 db. Measure the SPL at 1 and 3 meters. (If you have 2 iPhones you can download both as apps for experimentation - in case you don’t have lab equipment.)


Let me know what the graphs look like. It should be flat from about 500 Hz and up. The -3 dB down point should be 280 Hz with a fast roll off below. (These numbers are based on his 6 dB/octave designs.) If you do not see that, you may see a higher frequency where the mid actually rolls off. That would suggest that either the electrical, acoustic or both crossover points are not 280 Hz.


That said, who cares? If you measure the crap out of the 626 it will not look perfect - few speakers do. BUT in the end the 626 sounds like music. It was a revelation when it was designed. Brian cooked up some good soup and big brands couldn’t compete due to their price structures, or because of the lack of willingness to sell lower volumes to that target audience.


The D.C. store has a pair of Eddie Classics in house. Go give them a listen. Close your eyes and see if you hear music. It should sound like music. Then listen harder. Try to hear the crossover points. Hopefully, the music reproduction should be so good you say to yourself “Oh, just listen to the music”.


Now I make this request because what if I told you my crossover point was 380 Hz? Would you think that the VMPS was better? Or what if I told you mine was 180 Hz. Would that make mine better than VMPS?


Interesting theoretical conversation - If all things are equal and they aren’t. In reality there are so many factors that come into play. Huge conversation - a lot of what goes into my product design.


That’s all for now. Thanks always for your open and candid thoughts.


Best, Mark