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Audeze ignorance:

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Baumli

Audeze ignorance:
« on: 10 Mar 2018, 01:45 am »
Dear folks,

This is the first time I have posted on this headphone circle, although I have posted many times on the main circle.

I have a question to ask, and it seems there is a superfluity of ignorance on this topic, which surprises me. I am considering going with the Audeze headphones, a NOS version (which I can afford), and I have a choice between the LCD-2 and the LCD-X. I've been told that the LCD-X is harder to drive, but I can't get any hard data on this. Does anyone in this circle know the particulars on this matter? I would very much appreciate hard data, or even opinions, if they are empiric.

Thank you very much.

I am,

Francis Baumli
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dB Cooper

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #1 on: 10 Mar 2018, 01:59 am »
My understanding is that the X is easier to drive than the 2, but I could be wrong (it's happened several times). It might be a non-issue if you have a robust amp (planars love current), so the next question is...
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FullRangeMan

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Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #2 on: 10 Mar 2018, 02:03 am »
I would go in a new or factory refurb HifiMan 400 or 560.
400s are easy to drive and inexpensive.
https://hifiman.com/products/detail/178

https://hifiman.com/products/detail/286
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milford3

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #3 on: 10 Mar 2018, 02:05 am »
Baumli, get a good headphone amp and will be fine.
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A_shah

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #4 on: 10 Mar 2018, 02:11 am »

Quote from: Baumli on 10 Mar 2018, 01:45 am
Dear folks,

This is the first time I have posted on this headphone circle, although I have posted many times on the main circle.

I have a question to ask, and it seems there is a superfluity of ignorance on this topic, which surprises me. I am considering going with the Audeze headphones, a NOS version (which I can afford), and I have a choice between the LCD-2 and the LCD-X. I've been told that the LCD-X is harder to drive, but I can't get any hard data on this. Does anyone in this circle know the particulars on this matter? I would very much appreciate hard data, or even opinions, if they are empiric.

Thank you very much.

I am,

Francis Baumli

I have had both ! LCD -2 Fazor Version and I own the new LCD-X with Audeze Deckard HP ( one of the sweetest HP amp I have owned)
You have it opposite ! LCD-X are easier to drive , even with a Iphone , but LCD-2 you need a full HP amp they are harder to drive , LCD-X are very accurate most of them are used by recording studio's Late Arnie Nudell wrote a great review on the LCD-X , LCD -2 are a bit darker in sound quality but both are Great Headphones You can check the specs on both on Audeze Website they clearly state LCD-X are easier to drive , lower impedance

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Baumli

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #5 on: 10 Mar 2018, 05:39 am »
Dear folks,

As for the reference regarding HiFi-Man, no; my ears don't like them and I've seen them break too easily.

I know the Audeze X is said by the factory to be easier to drive than the 2's. But current to drive is one thing. When a big planar membrane is easy to drive, it also needs power from the amp to have control, speed, and damping. All this has to be provided by the amp, which is not being aided by electrical resistance or mechanical resistance. I've seen this happen with speakers. Only 30 watts will drive them, but they sound like mush unless you give them 500 watts.

I may have no choice but to experiment with both the X and the 2 models of Audeze. I did get to hear both together way back when the 2's first came out. That was probably 6 to 7 years ago. Back then, the 2's were clearly the better set.

As for amps, I have two very good amps, so that isn't clearly a problem. Which doesn't mean I don't crave something better. Which brings me to a question: What is absolutely the very best solid-state headphone amp made? Not something with tubes, and definitely not something with a built-in DAC. Just the very best solid-state headphone amp that money can buy? Any opinions? Or ... does anybody not have an opnion?

Thank you for your input!

Very best,

Francis
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JohnR

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #6 on: 10 Mar 2018, 05:45 am »
[Cross-post]

Yes, the X is much more easier to drive. From https://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements, to reach 90 dB, LCD-2 takes .225 Vrms, LCD-X takes 0.070 Vrms.

In other words, the X is about 10 dB more sensitive.

With that said, frequency response may also affect the subjective impression of sensitivity/loudness but I wouldn't think a lot of difference between those two.

The X is a fair bit more expensive. However the X (well I had the XC) has a certain richness in the lows that is very appearing, which neither the LCD-2 nor LCD-2C (that I tried) had. However it costs more and/or there are sometimes reports of driver failures which is a concern if buying used (out of warranty), seems LCDs don't last as long as you might hope (although Audeze will replace drivers for "not that much").

Seems there is plenty of information if you look in the right place ;)
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JohnR

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #7 on: 10 Mar 2018, 05:52 am »
Quote from: Baumli on 10 Mar 2018, 05:39 am
What is absolutely the very best solid-state headphone amp made?

I suppose it depends, as some people consider more colorful amps better, others don't. I haven't had any really high end SS amps but I'm quite liking the Vioelectric HPAV200 I picked up just recently, measures well but still has a slightly warm expansive sound (I think). So I'd suggest looking up that line, I think the V281 with the relay attenuator would be what I'd try if I had money to burn.

It's well engineered too, no click or pops or transformer hum like some other well-known brands I've had  :evil:

But of course, hearing for yourself is the only way to know  :thumb:
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A_shah

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #8 on: 10 Mar 2018, 06:59 am »
Quote from: Baumli on 10 Mar 2018, 05:39 am
Dear folks,

As for the reference regarding HiFi-Man, no; my ears don't like them and I've seen them break too easily.

I know the Audeze X is said by the factory to be easier to drive than the 2's. But current to drive is one thing. When a big planar membrane is easy to drive, it also needs power from the amp to have control, speed, and damping. All this has to be provided by the amp, which is not being aided by electrical resistance or mechanical resistance. I've seen this happen with speakers. Only 30 watts will drive them, but they sound like mush unless you give them 500 watts.

I may have no choice but to experiment with both the X and the 2 models of Audeze. I did get to hear both together way back when the 2's first came out. That was probably 6 to 7 years ago. Back then, the 2's were clearly the better set.

As for amps, I have two very good amps, so that isn't clearly a problem. Which doesn't mean I don't crave something better. Which brings me to a question: What is absolutely the very best solid-state headphone amp made? Not something with tubes, and definitely not something with a built-in DAC. Just the very best solid-state headphone amp that money can buy? Any opinions? Or ... does anybody not have an opnion?

Thank you for your input!

Very best,

Francis

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/dave/


Chord DAVe $ 10,000.00 but it does have a DAC & it is the Best ! Cheers !
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FullRangeMan

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Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #9 on: 10 Mar 2018, 07:02 am »
The HE400 have great SQ w/balanced cable even w/regular CDs.
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dB Cooper

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #10 on: 10 Mar 2018, 02:03 pm »
Error. (Why isn't there a Delete Post option on here BTW?)
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dB Cooper

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #11 on: 10 Mar 2018, 02:20 pm »
Quote from: Baumli on 10 Mar 2018, 05:39 am
Dear folks,

As for the reference regarding HiFi-Man, no; my ears don't like them and I've seen them break too easily.


The OP has pretty clearly indicated that his choice is between the two Audeze models he mentioned at the beginning. He is not interested in HiFiMan (or other planar options as far as I can tell).

BTW, as to the mentioning of damping: Planars actually get at least some damping from the surrounding air due to their extremely low mass, flat surface, and the way these characteristics interact with the acoustic impedance of the surrounding air (I've seen the claim that the membranes are actually lighter than the air they psh, although I don't know how they calculate that).
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FullRangeMan

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Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #12 on: 10 Mar 2018, 06:57 pm »
Quote from: dB Cooper on 10 Mar 2018, 02:03 pm
Error. (Why isn't there a Delete Post option on here BTW?)
We had this buttom years ago but it was removed due abuse.
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dB Cooper

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #13 on: 11 Mar 2018, 11:36 pm »
No, I wanted to delete my own post!
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FullRangeMan

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  • Posts: 20879
  • To whom more was given more will be required.
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Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #14 on: 11 Mar 2018, 11:59 pm »
Quote from: dB Cooper on 11 Mar 2018, 11:36 pm
No, I wanted to delete my own post!
Correct, all members had this option.
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ajzepp

Re: Audeze ignorance:
« Reply #15 on: 21 Mar 2018, 05:43 am »
Quote from: Baumli on 10 Mar 2018, 01:45 am
Dear folks,

This is the first time I have posted on this headphone circle, although I have posted many times on the main circle.

I have a question to ask, and it seems there is a superfluity of ignorance on this topic, which surprises me. I am considering going with the Audeze headphones, a NOS version (which I can afford), and I have a choice between the LCD-2 and the LCD-X. I've been told that the LCD-X is harder to drive, but I can't get any hard data on this. Does anyone in this circle know the particulars on this matter? I would very much appreciate hard data, or even opinions, if they are empiric.

Thank you very much.

I am,

Francis Baumli

As others have clarified, the X is definitely easier to drive. It works plenty fine directly from a source, but will scale up nicely with a better quality amp. My X just had it's four year anniversary this past January. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

You can't go wrong choosing between those headphones, though. Even though I still like to cycle through headphones for variety (just part of what makes this hobby fun), the X is as close to the perfect headphone for me that I've come across.

Good luck
AJ
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