Phase switch (Polarity/Invert toggle switch) on BP25-26

ord.avg.guy · « **on:** 1 Feb 2018, 10:54 pm »

Just wondering how other Bryston preamp owners feel about this feature. I have owned a BP25 for 6 years and always toggle the phase switch to find the best sound when using.

This post about the BP17 cubed not having a Phase switch got me curious about how many other users are hearing difference between the settings.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155389.0

I agree with Elizabeth that the vocals sound better and to me the midrange seems to open up. I use this site for reference when I can.http://www.audiogeorge.com/the-polarity-list/

Myself, I can't see me purchasing (not that I'm looking) another preamp that does not have a phase switch.

redbook · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Feb 2018, 12:03 am »

Quote from: ord.avg.guy on 1 Feb 2018, 10:54 pm

Just wondering how other Bryston preamp owners feel about this feature. I have owned a BP25 for 6 years and always toggle the phase switch to find the best sound when using.

This post about the BP17 cubed not having a Phase switch got me curious about how many other users are hearing difference between the settings.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155389.0

I agree with Elizabeth that the vocals sound better and to me the midrange seems to open up. I use this site for reference when I can.http://www.audiogeorge.com/the-polarity-list/

Myself, I can't see me purchasing (not that I'm looking) another preamp that does not have a phase switch.

.....Yes , this is what I have done as well over the years with my BP25 and many times have heard better detail and speration.. I too will have to consider the missing feature on the bp17 before deciding on purchasing...

Tympani · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Feb 2018, 03:07 pm »

I'm a firm believer in the value of a polarity invert switch, ideally accessible by remote. It's the one thing missing in the Bryston DAC's. I was led to believe it would be available on the BDA-3 when being developed, but no such luck. Fortunately Cary was able to implement a switch on my SLP-05 preamp (though I still think it's better accomplished in the digital domain)

schmidtmike76 · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Feb 2018, 05:58 pm »

What does the invert actually do ive never used mine. Can you flip it when music is playing or will it short something out.

James Tanner · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Feb 2018, 07:17 pm »

Quote from: schmidtmike76 on 2 Feb 2018, 05:58 pm

What does the invert actually do ive never used mine. Can you flip it when music is playing or will it short something out.

Hi

You can flip it any time.

james

Elizabeth · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Feb 2018, 09:34 pm »

I just flipped my BP-26 phase switch back and forth a dozen times and no noticeable sound gap in playback. I can hear the click of the switch (?Or some relay?) clearly when I flip the switch coming from the BP-26, but nothing in the music as a gap or notch sound.

James: I hope IF an upgrade to the BP-26 is in progress... That they KNOW folks want the phase switch.
I really would have to think hard on buying such an upgrade if they deleted the phase switch in any future BP-26 replacement. It is that important.

James Tanner · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Feb 2018, 11:49 pm »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 2 Feb 2018, 09:34 pm

I just flipped my BP-26 phase switch back and forth a dozen times and no noticeable sound gap in playback. I can hear the click of the switch (?Or some relay?) clearly when I flip the switch coming from the BP-26, but nothing in the music as a gap or notch sound.

James: I hope IF an upgrade to the BP-26 is in progress... That they KNOW folks want the phase switch.
I really would have to think hard on buying such an upgrade if they deleted the phase switch in any future BP-26 replacement. It is that important.

Yes I realize that some customers still value it but I do not see it on the horizon any time soon. The BP17 is software driven so there may be a way to allow it in software but not sure.

james

PierreB · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Feb 2018, 12:55 am »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 2 Feb 2018, 09:34 pm

I just flipped my BP-26 phase switch back and forth a dozen times and no noticeable sound gap in playback. I can hear the click of the switch (?Or some relay?) clearly when I flip the switch coming from the BP-26, but nothing in the music as a gap or notch

Same thing for me with my BP-25. I try it a couple of times but since i can’t hear a difference i don’t use it.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Feb 2018, 02:57 am »

Quote from: PierreB on 3 Feb 2018, 12:55 am

Same thing for me with my BP-25. I try it a couple of times but since i can’t hear a difference i don’t use it.

The main reason I can hear it IMO is I own planars. (Magnepan 3.6) With the way the music moves with the switch*, that is the main reason it is easy for me to hear the polarity. When I owned box speakers, it was a lot harder to hear polarity.

*As I mentioned prior, with normal phase the music appears to be between the speakers and somewhat forward.
With reverse polarity the soundstage moves much behind the speakers as if from the back walls.. to up between.
(On large orchestral music I like it to seem bigger and behind..)

tipatina · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Feb 2018, 03:29 am »

Went from a BP 20 to a DeHavilland Ultraverve-Great sound on the Ultraverve but I do miss the polarity switch, occasionally made the sound better

redbook · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Feb 2018, 03:44 am »

Quote from: PierreB on 3 Feb 2018, 12:55 am

Same thing for me with my BP-25. I try it a couple of times but since i can’t hear a difference i don’t use it.

Now in my case I have perceived significant changes in sound stage ....keep the darn thing please , it has it's purpose

ord.avg.guy · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Feb 2018, 03:09 pm »

Quote from: schmidtmike76 on 2 Feb 2018, 05:58 pm

What does the invert actually do ive never used mine. Can you flip it when music is playing or will it short something out.

This is link has some good info on polarity in recorded music. http://www.audiogeorge.com/the-polarity-list/

CanadianMaestro · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Feb 2018, 03:25 pm »

Quote from: PierreB on 3 Feb 2018, 12:55 am

Same thing for me with my BP-25. I try it a couple of times but since i can’t hear a difference i don’t use it.

Yes, me neither, with my LS27. No diff.
Life is good.

redbook · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Feb 2018, 10:24 pm »

Quote from: ord.avg.guy on 3 Feb 2018, 03:09 pm

This is link has some good info on polarity in recorded music. http://www.audiogeorge.com/the-polarity-list/

...That's quite a comprehensive article...thanks.

jtinto · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Feb 2018, 10:00 pm »

I just tried the phase switch. I never gave it much thought before either. I also didn't realize that the BR-2 remote lets you switch it from your listening position doh!

I'm listening to Cannonball Adderley Quintet and Nat is playing a trumpet mid-stage. Normal phase puts him behind the speakers, where you'd expect. Reverse phase makes him jump forward to the speaker plane. A huge difference.

James Tanner · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Feb 2018, 10:52 pm »

Quote from: jtinto on 6 Feb 2018, 10:00 pm

I just tried the phase switch. I never gave it much thought before either. I also didn't realize that the BR-2 remote lets you switch it from your listening position doh!

I'm listening to Cannonball Adderley Quintet and Nat is playing a trumpet mid-stage. Normal phase puts him behind the speakers, where you'd expect. Reverse phase makes him jump forward to the speaker plane. A huge difference.

Hi

Yes and a different master or recording that trumpet would be reversed - that's why is a 50/50 situation. Also the horn may be correct but the other 6 instruments in the mix may now be wrong as well.

james

jtinto · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Feb 2018, 11:06 pm »

Thanks James. I remember reading an article where Paul McGowan was stating that he kept a note of the best volume to play each recording. Now we can also keep track of the phase

RichPark · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Feb 2018, 03:58 pm »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 3 Feb 2018, 02:57 am

The main reason I can hear it IMO is I own planars. (Magnepan 3.6) With the way the music moves with the switch*, that is the main reason it is easy for me to hear the polarity. When I owned box speakers, it was a lot harder to hear polarity.

*As I mentioned prior, with normal phase the music appears to be between the speakers and somewhat forward.
With reverse polarity the soundstage moves much behind the speakers as if from the back walls.. to up between.
(On large orchestral music I like it to seem bigger and behind..)

I have some older MTM Nova speakers which also make out of phase recordings readily apparent. I don't own Bryston and never have, but, when I see a phase discussion I just have to comment.

If my ear and musical focus are drawn to the speaker I invert the phase and in many instances the speakers "disappear" again. My Dac has a phase button. Unfortunately, I have to a long stick to operate it. I would kill for a remote.

rollo · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Feb 2018, 05:01 pm »

If a DAC has no phase switch supplied I just look elsewhere. That simple.

charles

bunkertoy · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Feb 2021, 10:38 pm »

I know this is an old thread, but didn't want to start a new thread for a quick question.
So is Polarity the default position on the BP25 ? I understand it might not make a difference between Polarity/Invert, but just want to get some confirmation.