[agdrago]

I am the third owner of a pair of VSA VR-4jr speakers. They are typically powered by a Krell KAV-250A (see bottom of message for the entire equipment selection that has been swapped around to no avail). My issue is that accounting for equipment and room acoustics I can get good but not great low-end bass. I have verified that everything is in phase and I have tried the speakers in many positions in different rooms, but there always seems to be a roll-off starting under 80 - 100Hz. The speakers give every appearance of properly working and are currently on the short wall in a room with these dimensions: 92"H x 15'W x 30'D.

I am not expecting, nor do I want, thundering home theater type low-end. What I am hearing now is only slightly lower and more impactful than my Magnapan MG12QRs (without the usual understated assistance of my REL Strata iii) .

I do not have a calibrated SPL meter to verify what I am hearing, but I have used an app on my phone that attempts to calibrate the phone's mic. While I do not trust the app it does appear to corroborate what I am hearing.

One theory I have is the sub cabinets might have been stuffed by a previous owner. I have not seen another VR-4jr to be able to verify this myself. When I look into the port it appears there is white dacron stuffing that fills the bass cavity right up to the start of the port inside the sub cabinet. Is this how it should be - and not just up against the walls of the speakers?

Equipment:
- Krell KAV-250A
- ‎Rotel RB-991
- ‎Conrad Johnson Premier Fourteen
- ‎B&K PT-3 Series ii
- ‎DAC, Turntable, tuner, different CD players
- ‎Belden PT00UP cable 8' (bi-wired, to sub terminals, and direct to terminals on M/T module. The Data cable is not used and the sub and M/T terminals on the sub units are not connected in any way).
- ‎Magnepan MR12QR
- ‎REL Strata iii

[SundayNiagara]

I worked in a dealer that sold those speakers and don't remember cabinet stuffing being an option? Can you pull it out?

[agdrago]

Once I get a few more confirmations that what I am seeing is not factory I will pull it out.

Again this is not stuffing in the port tube, rather the entire cavity behind the port tube is loosely stuffed.

[Delacroix]

Hi Agdrago

welcome to the AC forum and VSA Circle. We generally ask people to introduce themselves and have their first few posts approved before they appear (am approving this now, but the general protocol is outlined in the sticky thread at top of circle).  Anyway, I have VR5s and always understood that the bass could be adjusted by adding or removing the stuffing via the port. I've done both over the years, though never to point of filling the port visibly, and mine certainly did not come from the factory that way.  Most people add some, which is what the last owner might have done if trying to tame the bass response in their rooms. Regardless, I don't think you can do any damage by gently removing what you see. IF you can locate a manual, I think it explains it there - it's not a very complicated process, I just used my hands.

Best

Patrick

[agdrago]

Hi all,

Pardon the lack of an introduction. I am a long time VSA admirer and Maggie lover. This November I decided to get a set of Thiels or VSAs. I was super pleased to come across a pair of VR-4jr just when I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of Thiel 3.7s. Notice the Maggies politely stepping aside to share the stage with the VR-4jr.



Needless to say I have been very happy with my choice, and I appreciate the assistance in getting my setup completed.

So just to confirm... the white stuffing below is not stock/factory - correct?


Ll

[agdrago]

.

[Delacroix]

Wow...I've never seen stuffing like that....it seems to be a mass of sponge and dalcron...no wonder you are not hearing bass!  I'd take that sponge insert out for a starter and listen.

[agdrago]

The gray sponge is glued to the inside of the tube and appears in every picture I have seen of VR-4jr speakers. It is stock and I do not want to alter the speakers. The documentation also makes reference to them being stuffed.   I was hoping someone who owns  the same speakers could confirm if their cavity is as thoroughly stuffed as mine.

[Delacroix]

Ah, I was imagining the SR not the JR -- time then for a word from the folks at VSA, I don't think I've ever seen the JR model up close. Give Leif a call.

[scp2]

The gray sponge is glued to the inside of the tube and appears in every picture I have seen of VR-4jr speakers. It is stock and I do not want to alter the speakers. The documentation also makes reference to them being stuffed.   I was hoping someone who owns  the same speakers could confirm if their cavity is as thoroughly stuffed as mine.

Just looked at my VR4jr's and they have the same foam.

[agdrago]

Just looked at my VR4jr's and they have the same foam.

Thanks scp2! I was pretty sure the foam is stock. Can you confirm how much white dacron stuffing you can see when you look in the bass port? Mine is loosely packed, but does touch the end of the port tube inside the cabinet. At this point I am assuming that too is stock.

Thanks.

[leif8660]

Hi all,

Pardon the lack of an introduction. I am a long time VSA admirer and Maggie lover. This November I decided to get a set of Thiels or VSAs. I was super pleased to come across a pair of VR-4jr just when I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of Thiel 3.7s. Notice the Maggies politely stepping aside to share the stage with the VR-4jr.



Needless to say I have been very happy with my choice, and I appreciate the assistance in getting my setup completed.

So just to confirm... the white stuffing below is not stock/factory - correct?


Ll

The foam is supposed to be there.  But there is not supposed to be white Dacron blocking the port tube.  That must of been added to reduce bass response.  The port tube is supposed to be unrestricted.  Many things can effect the bass response of speakers such as silver cables as well as the electronics.

Carefully remove the Dacron that is blocking the port so air can move through there and make the port functional again.  You can use a coat hanger and  by bending the end into a a 90 degree short L shape, you can pull the Dacron out.  Just be careful you don't snag the binding post wires.  Or just pull the lower woofer which will give you full access to the inside of the enclosure.  This cabinet is only supposed to have Dacron from the middle of the cabinet back to the back of the enclosure.  If you are looking at the woofer enclosure from the side, the stuffing should start from the middle of the cabinet and continue all the way to the back of the cabinet.  No Dacron directly behind the woofers.  You can always call me as well.

Leif
951-682-0706

[rollo]

   Can you move them out from wall ? Bass will not develop properly in that position. Your worry is not stuffing.

charles

[agdrago]

Lief,

Thanks for the response. See attached photos. I read your description of how the factory stuffing was done. The small piece on he floor was pulled from the port tube cavity.

Concerning the response about the placement of the speakers... Sorry to be confusing, but the pictures show where the speakers were first installed. However, as I explained I have exhausted speaker position option s. This was done in a different room. No matter where the speakers were moved there was not an appreciable difference in output.

[SundayNiagara]

Lief,

Thanks for the response. See attached photos. I read your description of how the factory stuffing was done. The small piece on he floor was pulled from the port tube cavity.

Concerning the response about the placement of the speakers... Sorry to be confusing, but the pictures show where the speakers were first installed. However, as I explained I have exhausted speaker position option s. This was done in a different room. No matter where the speakers were moved there was not an appreciable difference in output.

Now, the further you get them out from the wall behind them, the bigger your soundstage will get. (Pearson's Rule of Thirds."

[scp2]

This is true...I have a similiar setup with a huge entertainment center...except my speakers are pulled out an additional 6-8". I will even pull them out more for a better listening experience.

[len]

My $.02. 

I used these speakers in their original incarnation for about 10 years before doing a factory upgrade about 18 months ago.  Used in a location appropriate to their size, and with an amplifier with sufficient umph (mine is a Sim W-5), they had a remarkable bass response both quality and quantity.  Everyone was amazed to hear what came out of these small bass drivers.  They replaced speakers, each with a 10" and 12" woofer and outshone them in the bass department.  I had originally heard them in a sizeable room at a NY audio show presented by AVS and their excellent bass was apparent to all, though with elevator music.  In the review of these speakers in "The Absolute Sound" (which was more reliable then than it is today): "The VR-4jr deserves an enthusiastic thumbs up as a standout contender in its price range. The VR-4jr has a number of endearing  sonic  attributes,  the  most notable  being  its  bass  performance."  That performance is then described and praised in detail.

All of which is to suggest that if you're not getting that result, something is wrong. Since you're the third owner you don't know what went on inside that speaker over the years.  Besides the stuffing there could have been fooling with the cross-over or the bass drivers  In any event, you might begin by removing all the stuffing, listening and adding it back as you see fit.  On such an old speaker the idea of leaving it in original factory condition seems unnecessary.  In any event, replacing the stuffing is no great issue.  No one need ever know.

Are you using lead shot?  In effect that seemed to "tame" the prodigious bass output.

[musiciseverything]

Hello. I have a pair of these and just saw your old post. I love my pair. I’ve measured the low end output and it starts to drop off at 30 Hz. How did yours work out?

[agdrago]

Years later... I am not sure why I never replied to this thread. I ended up pulling out what was an excessive amount of stuffing and returning them to factory. They do have a significant amount of lead shot in them. I forget the amount, but it was done as noted in the manual.

They sound wonderful, and the bass did improve after the stuffing was removed. I don't believe the bass is at the level some suggest they experience. The crossovers appear to be unmolested.

I am simply enjoying them and done fussing over them.

Thanks for the help.

[magister]

I missed this thread when it was originally posted. I have the same speakers and have kept them for over 20 years. Recently I’ve been thinking about replacing them, but so far haven’t found anything that checks all the boxes and fits within my budget.

I have always been very impressed with the bass performance from the jr’s.  Like @musiciseverything, I get solid performance down to 30 Hz, below which the bass rolls off quickly.  I see that you do have the lead shot in the woofer modules, which is essential to getting the best out of the speakers. It’s amazing how VSA got this level of performance out of 6.5 inch drivers. Even organ music, in which I know that the lowest bass frequencies are not really there, sounds very realistic and satisfying. So, like you, I’m continuing to enjoy these speakers!

One more thing: I recently replaced the factory spikes with a set of IsoAcoustics Gaia II footers. While I wouldn’t call them cheap ($600 for two sets), they aren’t expensive as audiophile toys go – and they made a noticeable improvement in the sound of the speakers. You might want to try these. There are a number of reviews available online.