Art D/IO question...

Rob Babcock · « **on:** 30 Dec 2002, 04:12 am »

Will the art accept a 24 bit signal? Just curious.

Does everyone here consider the Art to be the best deal going at the price? Seems like a versatile product and you can usually find a modded unit at a pretty good price. I'm definately looking into picking one up down the road.

CastAwayWilson · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Dec 2002, 04:17 am »

Check their site perhaps on the specifications

http://www.artproaudio.com/main.html

AS I understand its extreamly upgradable so you don't have to purchase all at once, I'd say buy it, send it to Wayne, have him mod it, then later buy the Baybee power supply from Bolder as well, then you've got a top notch DIO

but then again its up to you, thats the reason I see it, some thing I can afford and make better and better

mgalusha · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Dec 2002, 04:39 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Will the art accept a 24 bit signal? Just curious.

Does everyone here consider the Art to be the best deal going at the price? Seems like a versatile product and you can usually find a modded unit at a pretty good price. I'm definately looking into picking one up down the road.

Yes, it will accept up to 24/96. I have fed it a 24/96 signal from a DAD and it worked very nicely.

Bang for the buck, a modded DI/O works very well. I havn't heard a better DAC for anywhere near the price. Of course that is just my opinion.

Mike

Juan R · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Dec 2002, 03:31 pm »

Any opinion on CI audio, I understand that is even better than the art, and you can buy the optional power supply.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Dec 2002, 04:03 pm »

Get the Art! Just have it shipped directly to Wayne for upgrades because once you install it into your system you will not want to remove it. Even the unmodded is great. As soon as the Circle has a review section, I'm going to do a comparison between it and my Jolida JD100, which is excellent in its own right. They can compliment each other very nicely.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Dec 2002, 04:18 pm »

Get the Art! Just have it shipped directly to Wayne for upgrades because once you install it into your system you will not want to remove it. Even the unmodded is great. As soon as the Circle has a review section, I'm going to do a comparison between it and my Jolida JD100, which is excellent in its own right. They can compliment each other very nicely.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Dec 2002, 04:43 pm »

If you care to do a search on HD, you will find at least two comparisons between a modded ART and the CI Audio DAC.

Here is a link to one of them:

http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7822

In both cases the modded ART was thought to sound MUCH better.

The DI/O can handle just about any signal from a CD. It will not handle SACD, DVD, DVD-A, or DTS encoded discs.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 Dec 2002, 06:10 pm »

Thanks, all. Sounds like a good buy @ the price. Not too concerned with DTS, just PCM for this piece. I have a couple links to order one, maybe in '03 (alright, '03 is like 12 hrs away!

).

I do plan to make some system changes next year, probably expanding my 2nd system and engaging in a comprehensive room makeover ( acoustic treatments more than gear change). Most of what I change gear wise will probably be tweaks more than big changes, at least for the first part of the year.

Once football is over with I'll need something to occupy my time!

Wayne1 · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 Dec 2002, 06:35 pm »

Hello Rob,

The place that I do the most business with is Full Compass.

You do have to call to place an order.

1-800-356-5844

ext. 1193 is Erik Anderson.

I have worked with him for over a year now. He can ship the DI/O direct to me for the mods, if you so desire

Danny Richie · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Dec 2002, 10:29 pm »

Hey Wayne,

I have a Art DIO that I tried out when they first came out.

I did all the no brainer mods. Used the bigger Wal-wart power supply, pulled out the tube, made some silver interconnect with the 1/4" plugs and RCA's on the other end.

I thought the units sounded pretty good, but did not like the high gain output.

Do your mods do anything about the high gain output?

Wayne1 · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 12:34 am »

Danny,

The mods consist of:

Replace the power supply diodes with Schottky type

Replace the stock IC with a LT1362CN in a gold plated socket.

Bias the op-amp into Class A operation

Bypass the op-amp's power supplies with film capacitors to prevent oscillation

Remove the A/D IC

Remove the tube filament and high voltage power supply regulators

Replace the digital in jack with a Canare RCA

Replace the analog output jacks with Cardas Rhodium RCA's

Replace the digital input resistor with a 75 ohm Dale/Vishay "Audiophile" grade resistor.

Terminate the digital output with a 75 ohm Dale/Vishay "Audiophile" grade resistor.

Replace power supply capacitors in the D/A and digital section with higher value/higher quality Panasonic caps.

Replace the analog output resistors with Dale/Vishay "Audiophile" grade resistors

Remove and jumper the analog output capacitors.

Replace the IC resistors with Dale/Vishay "Audiophile" grade to adjust the gain to 1.5x rather than the stock 4x. This lowers the output voltage from 7 V to roughly 2.3 V

Replace the 5 volt regulator with an upgraded one

Danny Richie · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 12:39 am »

That just about covers everything I needed to know.

I'll be sending you mine day after tomorrow when UPS starts running again.

Thanks Wayne.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 09:37 am »

Thanks, Wayne. I'll probably look into the Art, but not til after the Sound Anchors center channel stand. Hopefully I'll be caught up enough when my tax refund comes to hit the upgrade path again.

thetruth · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 01:26 pm »

Rob

As they say 'consider the source' when getting fed info about the how 'good' a dio sounds.

I've heard several (including stock and 'famous maker' units in various stages of modification). All created a fat bloated surreal/hyperreal soundstage when used in true high-end system (this means gear in a different league from nOrh, VMPS etc.)

This 'in your face' soundstage presentation is appealing to the neophyte listener/ audiophile want-to-be. So they write glowing online reviews and unfortunately their word tends to be taken as 'gospel'.

One can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear regardless how much money in tweaks is poured into it. The dio starts out as a $100 item and can end up costing many times that. I'd suggest auditioning DACs that are in the same price range as the fully modded dio. With them you stand a chance of recovering some of your investment should you decide to sell it. So......

As they say caveat emptor.......

Marbles · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 03:00 pm »

Quote from: thetruth

Rob

As they say 'consider the source' when getting fed info about the how 'good' a dio sounds.

I've heard several (including stock and 'famous maker' units in various stages of modification). All created a fat bloated surreal/hyperreal soundstage when used in true high-end system (this means gear in a different league from nOrh, VMPS etc.)

This 'in your face' soundstage presentation is appealing to the neophyte listener/ audiophile want-to-be. So they write glowing online reviews and unfortunately their word tends to be taken as 'gospel'.

I don't think that I would say my cryo'd smART DIO sounds "fat bloated surreal/hyperreal soundstage" on my nOrh speakers with a Bent pre and Kraft 400 mono amps. But I guess I don't have a good enough system to bring out the worst in it.

So Truth, what is a high end system that is good enough to make the smART DIO sound bad???

Since most don't have these ubber sound systems, then maybe the smART isn't so bad with the mediocre systems that we all have.

FWIW, DueN and Kishore did a comparo of a Camelot DAC (forget which one, but IIRC it was around $2k) and a smART DIO. The Camelot barely edged out the DIO as their preference. So there are better DACs then the smART DIO, of course a MENSA might beat the Camelot.

markC · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 03:48 pm »

I know that this is off topic, but could someone tell me about terminating the digital output on my qds15 cdp. How to go about it, and what benefits should result. Thanks.

Marbles · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 04:00 pm »

If you go to radio shack they have two peices that you need to screw together to create the cap, also I think Cardas makes the caps as well for $5. You can get these at www.audioadvisor.com

Do a search on HD for the exact parts needed and the benifits. It's been too long for me to remember.

markC · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 04:07 pm »

Thanks for the info Marbles and Happy New Year. If I remember correctly, the cardas caps were more like covers for the unused outputs, where as what I am thinking of is a resistor type thingy.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 04:43 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

FWIW, DueN and Kishore did a comparo of a Camelot DAC (forget which one, but IIRC it was around $2k) and a smART DIO. The Camelot barely edged out the DIO as their preference. So there are better DACs then the smART DIO, of course a MENSA might beat the Camelot.

The DI/O that Kishore was using was one of my early mods that was not using Holco or Dale/Vishay resistors in the signal path. In one of the many reviews the DAM did on the smART DI/O we found the the "Audiophile" resistors sounded much better than the 1 % metal films I had been using. The Riken-Ohm resistors sounded even better but they did cost a lot more.

I have updated Kishore's DI/O and sent it back to him. I personally think a rematch would have different results. In all of the comparisons that have been done, the smART DI/O is easily the equal to any DAC it has been compared against that sells for under $1,000.00. Is some cases it may be equal to DACs that sell for more. I am sure there are better sounding DACs being made today. BUT, I do not think there is a better sounding DAC produced FOR THE MONEY

thetruth,

Please let me know when you heard these DI/Os and who modded them. The mods I do have progressed quite a bit from when I first started them. The most current mods and the Mensa unit is quite a bit different from stock.

Frank Alles, a reviewer from Stereo Times, liked my early version of the modded DI/O so much he placed it on his "Most Wanted" list for 2002.
http://www.stereotimes.com/MWL_2002Alles.shtm

I would not place him into the class of "neophyte listener/ audiophile want-to-be"

I have updated his DI/O to the latest version and sent him a power supply with Bybee in it as well as some NITRO interconnects and a digital cable to review.

Also, I would be intterested in finding out what components are used in your "true high-end system"

Thank you,
Wayne Waananen
The BOLDER Cable Company

Captain Humble · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Jan 2003, 05:04 pm »

I keep seeing the terms ART DIO and smARt DIO bantered around but I can't find the term smART DIO at The BOLDER Cable Company's website. Is the smART DIO the term used after Wayne mods an ART DIO?
Thanks.