eAR 202 Acoustic Reality with Omega Grande 8

GHM · « **Reply #20 on:** 1 Jan 2005, 12:00 am »

Now that's a lot of driver...45lbs! Hey Dmason whats the cabinet dimensions needed to use those 200As? I'm curious ..I may try building my own cabinets in the future for the experience or just to mess around.

Dmason · « **Reply #21 on:** 1 Jan 2005, 12:14 am »

Fostex suggests a 45L BR cabinet but we know better. PM JLM he has a pair of them in Bob Brines big TQWT design, which sounds pretty tasty, but too large for my smallish seaside luxury pavilion...

JLM · « **Reply #22 on:** 1 Jan 2005, 02:48 pm »

Louis offers his Super 3 with a Fostex F120A driver (the smaller version of the F200A). I'm sure that the F120A is a very nice driver too.

Regarding the break-in of the Fostex F200A drivers:

1. I've been doing a fair amount of equipment swapping, so it's hard to say.

2. Break-in DID occur up to at least the 500 hour mark, but its slower now and would be harder to tell.

Regarding cost of the F200A drivers ($375 each):

1. About middle of the road compared to other extended range drivers (Fostex FE127E is $37 a piece, Lowther/spin offs can run $1000 each).

2. No powered sub needed for music in the right cabinets (that should save hundreds).

3. About the same price as quality two-way/three-way drivers with crossovers.

Regarding the Bob Brines FTA-2000 speakers:

1. Bob does great design and woodworking. He's a gentleman to deal with. His prices are more than fair. He offers his other speaker in various kit forms, so he might do the same with these.

2. They are somewhat large, so shipping and WAF could be considerations.

3. The F200A is a very musical driver with bass performance you'd expect from an 8 inch woofer. Above 4000 Hz it beams, but really isn't much of an issue for me (it can be used to tune by simply aiming). Personally I just don't like whizzer cones from a theoretical basis alone.

4. They're very easy to drive (wouldn't try to clip them with a 12 wpc tube amp I had in last fall as it was already so loud with the controls only half way up), although rated efficiency is only average (89 dB/w/m). To provide a full amount of headroom I'd look for an amp with 20 - 100 wpc.

5. Compared to any other single driver speaker I've heard, these have BASS! I've owned transmission line cabinets for 25 years and love the deep, tight, musical bass they produce. From my in-home auditioning of various amps I'd recommend solid state (high damping factor) to control the bass.

6. BTW Dan, they're mass loaded transmission lines (MLTL), not tuned quarter wave pipes (TWQP). Bob's website goes into great detail to explain the math behind the design.

GHM · « **Reply #23 on:** 1 Jan 2005, 03:10 pm »

Thanks for all the insight JLM. I found his website. I think I'm going to order me a pair of those nifty Bob Brines FTA-2000 speakers. You guys (dmason as well) are making me jealous and broke all at the same time !

JLM what's the height ,width and depth of those cabinets?
Scratch that...I also found the dimensions finally.
How far do these need to be off the rear walls?

After looking at the cost it may be easier /cheaper just to order the speakers complete.
I going to contact him and see how long it will take to get me self a pair >..Hah hahahah

GHM · « **Reply #24 on:** 2 Jan 2005, 07:16 pm »

The Omega Grande 8s are really starting to open up now. WooWeeee!!!
They have come alive! I've been listening to some Drum Talk from Chesky records. I have maybe 75 hours of burn in on them now.The speed is simply amazing on the Omegas. The highs are getting refined now. I put a Bvaudio SR 10 Sound Refiner in between my cd player and break in receiver. Guys this thing really works. The music is definitely more dynamic , the sound stage and the highs are more focused. Eveything has more snap to it in the music. If it sounds this good with a run of the mill receiver..I'm really in for a treat when one of my amplifiers arrive! In key areas these speakers haved shamed my prior speakers!

JLM · « **Reply #25 on:** 3 Jan 2005, 04:02 am »

GHM,

Speaker distance from walls is a "season to taste" sort of thing IMO.

I'd say at least two feet, but four would be better for imaging and bass.

Also depends on the bass output of your amp, how much bass is in recording, and your likes. YMMV.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #26 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 05:29 am »

Do any of you single driver types listen to rock or like your music loud??

I plan on being a city resident for a while, so having a big listening room won't be an option for a while. Will listening at close distances, say 8 feet at most, make up for the fact that I like my music loud?

That said, does anyone have any ideas besides larger Omegas and Bob Brines designs for single driver speakers that go pretty deep in the bass?

JLM · « **Reply #27 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 11:57 am »

Max:

Define loud (not being smart, but until I picked up a spl meter I couldn't tell how loud anything really was).

Public Service Annoucement - extended exposure to 85 dB or higher will result in permanent hearling loss and can also cause permanent pain.

Define rock (the only harder rock I listen to anymore is vintage stuff like Heart or Fleetwood Mac).

IMO the Fostex F200A is the ONLY extended range driver that is a true full range driver (for music).

maxwalrath · « **Reply #28 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 01:13 pm »

I might have to pick up an spl meter at radio shack...(duh, good point)

Rock to me would be Led Zeppelin, Floyd, Cream, Hendrix. Other newer rock like Pearl Jam, Nirvana and Soundgarten. Other tastes range from Buena Vista Social Club and a few other acoustic discs (just started exploring the genres) to rap*, which likes a loud bass but doesn't go below 35-40hz.

I'm using the Vinnie Rossi Clari-T amp, and with the 8' I meant the distance from each speaker to my head in the listening spot.

*Yes I think it sucks today, but some stuff from the 80's-early 90's was creative and politically conscious enough to have even my grandparents appreciate it (if not enjoy it...).

Dmason · « **Reply #29 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 01:32 pm »

Max,

Vinnie's amp has plenty of jam for any of the Fostex drivers except the F200A, which needs at least 40 SS watts to sound its best. So, just about all single drivers out there are rated at over 92db sensitive, with the exceptions of the Fostex F200A and the Jordan JX92S (86db) these should not be considered high efficiency.

With any of the paper cone Omega type speakers, Vinnies' amp will never get out of second gear so to speak, and the combination is truly synergistic, and musical in an almost rarefied way. Give them a little volume and it is impressive, the sort of impact they can serve up. Further, using a fast amp with fast speakers makes percussive sounds a whole lot of fun!! Apparently almost half of the initial ClariT owners are using Fostex FE-E drivers, primarily the Omega Grande 8, and listening intently, to alot of music. Someone needs to try it with some Big Fun Horns

maxwalrath · « **Reply #30 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 01:42 pm »

ah...if only I had a big room to try that out. I think I'm going back to the basics as much as I can. I'm going to try to get the source away from AC power also, find a good single driver, and have nothing to worry about except vibration control and cables for a while.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #31 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 06:04 pm »

One more thread-jacking question: Does no one sell their used single driver speakers, or is there a site besides audiogon to buy them that I don't know about?

JLM · « **Reply #32 on:** 6 Jan 2005, 12:03 pm »

MW,

1. I don't know of any "hidden" site of used single drivers for sale, but why would we want to sell them? They're good stuff and have a devoted following like any cult niche.

2. Numbers of such speakers are still quite small, so the market is uneducated making selling them on an open market tougher. Older designs were typically very large and hard to ship.

3. We're experiencing the up trend of single driver speaker sales following for the most part the move in the past few years towards SETs. SET owners have been moving towards single driver speakers that are generally easier to drive than speakers with multiple driver/crossover designs and like SETs are best in the all important (6 octave, 80 - 5000 Hz) midrange.

4. The relatively high DIY element associated with single driver speakers that allows owners to keep trying different enclosures with the same drivers.

5. Some, like the Fostex FE127E used in all the Omega "3" series speakers, are cheap enough to be disposable.

6. Many extended range drivers, like the grand daddy of extended range drivers - Lowthers, are very expensive. With significant improvements made in the past few years to some of these expensive drivers make the older ones less marketable.

GHM · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 12:49 am »

The CTA is finally here!

Right now I'm burning in this little wonder. From some initial impressions it sounds promising. I will wait a day or so before I really comment. I know it will be 100 hrs or more before this little unit really opens up though.

I will say one thing ..I can't believe how much volume I get out of this little guy. At 10 O'clock it's about as loud as I can listen to music on the Omega Grande 8s!

The CTA sounds like it will be a terrific birthday present! The timing couldn't have been any better. Vinnie got it to me right on B day.

He is a class act !

Dmason · « **Reply #34 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 01:18 am »

GHM, Happy B Day. The prezzie doesnt suck either!! What timing.

Soon you will hear the unusual synergy I and others have reported. this is not confined to Fostex drivers. I find that any higher sensitivity paper cone drivers sound fabulous with the ClariT.

GHM · « **Reply #35 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 09:24 am »

Now we are cooking with oil!!! The first 3 hours there's been a drastic sound change in this unit.

I'm jumping up and down..the CTA is kicking ass !

I watched a movie as I burned it in for a couple of hours.After the movie went off. I played some Rebecca Pidgeon "The Raven" cd.

I sat with my mouth open for 45 minutes. Everything that has been said about the Clari T amp is true. What an amazing amplifier! I've had over $10 grand worth of components and I can honestly say the Clari T Amp with just a RAM Toshiba SC3 paired with the BvAudio SR-10 and the Omega's just blew all of it out of the water!

Hell..my speaker cables in a prior system cost as much as the modded 3960 Tosh and the SR10 alone.
Now I'm using basic monster speaker cable in this little system and it walks the dog on it..Truly amazing. I'm still waiting to wake up...Ouch I just pinched myself. I guess I'm already awake!

My B Day couldn't have been better thanks D !

JLM · « **Reply #36 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 10:47 am »

GHM,

Careful, the chiche cops will bust ya.

You had me going for a bit trying to figure out what a CTA was. All I could think of was Chicago Transit Authority, but it didn't seem like you'd be waiting for the bus.

GHM · « **Reply #37 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 10:55 pm »

JLM you are a comedian.

That's my short version of Clari T Amp of course.

GHM · « **Reply #38 on:** 15 Feb 2005, 02:12 am »

I've been listening to Norah Jone's Feels like home cd for the last hour. I had to move the Omegas back a foot or so. WOW!! I honestly had to tear myself away from the music. If I didn't know any better I would think the ClariT was voiced for these types of speakers purposely. The soundstage is HUGE!! Norahs voice is 8 ft wide.It sounds like it goes to the ceiling. My speakers are roughly 7 feet apart and 9 feet from my ears, these things image like nobodys business !!

PRAT from hell!!! I'm utterly flabbergasted at how this amplifier is opening up. I've ran it nearly straight the last 24 hours only giving it an hour of charge every 5 or 6 hrs. Yes I'm enjoying the hell out of this.. all I can think about is I finally found the sound I've been searching for .

The instruments sound so life like it is scary. Metal sounds like metal.Wood sounds like wood . This is the closes to the real thing I have heard in my home or any where else for that matter. It doesn't sound like two speakers anymore. I feel like I'm sitting in the recording studio with these guys.

I'm finally starting to understand where D Mason is coming from. If I never upgraded any thing again , I could live with this setup for a very long time. This is some of the most nonfatiguing yet vivid, fleshy and engaging music I have experienced.

Bravo!! Louis O, Vinnie at Redwine Audio and Doug over at Reference Audio Mods ,this combination is pure magic. Thanks D for all your help!!