Is a Sugden amp a possibly good fit with SAMs?

moremoremore · « **on:** 22 Nov 2017, 08:41 pm »

I'm thinking about getting either the single driver SAMs or the HO version, and after casting about for different amplifier ideas, I realized that a Sugden class A integrated might work fine. Anybody ever tried that? I know everyone recommends tubes with Omegas, especially SET amps, but I'm kind of contrary that way. I have considered Bottlehead and AN kits, along with other possibilities like Decware. But I've always loved the Sugden aesthetic, and I think the plain vanilla A21 at 20 watts/channel would obviously have plenty of horsepower.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Nov 2017, 08:47 pm »

By the characteristics you mention it will be a nice match IMO, without the retube expense with a wide bandwidth. How much it cost?

moremoremore · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Nov 2017, 09:04 pm »

They are about US$2200 here.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Nov 2017, 09:25 pm »

Hm, there is many SE tube amps that cost less that this, inclusive made to order amps.

Louis O · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Nov 2017, 10:15 pm »

Hi moremoremore,

I also think it will be a very good match. I like Class A solid state a lot. It's got more than enough power and should be a great fit for SAM's or SAM HO's.

Thanks,
Louis

guf · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Nov 2017, 10:58 pm »

i'm using a First watt Sit2 for a SAMs. Its all class A 10 watts. I love it.

pstrisik · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Nov 2017, 11:17 pm »

And I'm using a 25 watt, Class A, First Watt J2 (when running SS). Top notch.

moremoremore · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Nov 2017, 01:59 pm »

Okay, forget the Sugden! Unless I change my mind . . .

Thanks for the feedback on your First Watt amps. And of course I respect the speaker builder's opinion, Louis! I built Nelson's ACA kit, which didn't have the final word in resolution, but was enjoyable to listen to--smooth and sweet. I've also heard the F5 at a friend's place on Altec 605's and that was a treat.

Maybe I'll get off my ass and build that F4 I've considered for too long. One holdup is choosing a suitable tube preamp with the required voltage swing. I'm no expert on the subject, so it can be confusing determining what will work best since supposedly the F4 is so transparent the flavor of the upstream electronics colors the experience. I'm a fan of the romantic Audible Illusions sound, though I could live with a preamp that is a bit more neutral.

Did you guys buy your amps from Nelson directly or from Reno Hifi?

Louis, I'm moving to my "new" house in December, and I'll be calling you soon afterwards.

roscoe65 · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Nov 2017, 02:41 pm »

I would think an F4 to be ideal for a SAM, perhaps More so than a Super Alnico HO model. The F4 is a current amp, which with the SAM will increase in output power into higher impedance. This should improve the midbass response of the single driver.

I would consider two options for a “preamp” to drive the F4: a Don Sachs version of the Tube4HiFi Aikido preamp; or a Chord DAC/Headphone amp. The Chords have a fully-functioning output stage that can drive 5 volts.

pstrisik · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Nov 2017, 05:16 pm »

Quote from: moremoremore on 23 Nov 2017, 01:59 pm

Okay, forget the Sugden! Unless I change my mind . . .

Thanks for the feedback on your First Watt amps. And of course I respect the speaker builder's opinion, Louis! I built Nelson's ACA kit, which didn't have the final word in resolution, but was enjoyable to listen to--smooth and sweet. I've also heard the F5 at a friend's place on Altec 605's and that was a treat.

Maybe I'll get off my ass and build that F4 I've considered for too long. One holdup is choosing a suitable tube preamp with the required voltage swing. I'm no expert on the subject, so it can be confusing determining what will work best since supposedly the F4 is so transparent the flavor of the upstream electronics colors the experience. I'm a fan of the romantic Audible Illusions sound, though I could live with a preamp that is a bit more neutral.

Did you guys buy your amps from Nelson directly or from Reno Hifi?

Louis, I'm moving to my "new" house in December, and I'll be calling you soon afterwards.

I was posting more to support the idea of Class A solid state rather than First Watt in particular. I'm perceiving more difference between Class A SS and other SS than between Single Ended tube amps and Class A SS.

To answer your question, I bought my First Watt from Mark at Reno. You can usually find a deal for used (with remaining warranty) or demo (with full warranty).

......Peter

guf · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Nov 2017, 06:22 pm »

yeah, and i was sharing SS and class A user too with my SAMs. Yes from Mark at Reno hi-fi

roscoe65 · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Nov 2017, 06:50 pm »

Speaking to Peter’s statement, I can attest that all SS is not created equal. I own a RWA Signature 16, which has a tube buffer and Class A/B 16 wpc output stage. It is a warm sounding amp, even more so than any tube amp I own. While it gives great bass response in my 1.5 way Super 3’s, it lacks the high end of my 421A SET, which itself stumbles in the bass on the Omega’s.

I will probably be moving the RWA on to its new owner. I can’t find a use for it that is not better met by other options. I will problably be joining Peter in the Firstwatt camp. I purchased a set of F3 DIY boards and devices from a fellow ACer, but given the additional parts necessary to complete the build (including $400 for the deluxe 4U case!) I am considering switching to the F4 instead. I can provide gain in spades, and would be looking at a “booster” amp. The F4 would provide twice the power of the F3 while allowing me to continue using fleawatt amps. The F4 is also much more well-documented than the F3.

moremoremore · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Nov 2017, 02:22 pm »

Well understood that you both weren't talking about the Pass amps in particular. It's just that mentioning First Watt reignited my interest in building an F4 that had been lingering in my subconscious for a long time. And if I go the F4 route, I might pair it with a Burning Amp, serving as a preamp. While I have the time and money, I might try building a BeePre kit to use as an alternative preamp. Too bad BH doesn't offer the 2A3 Paramour monoblocks anymore, though I believe the Paramounts can be converted with some bother.

roscoe65 · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Nov 2017, 05:56 pm »

Quote from: moremoremore on 25 Nov 2017, 02:22 pm

Well understood that you both weren't talking about the Pass amps in particular. It's just that mentioning First Watt reignited my interest in building an F4 that had been lingering in my subconscious for a long time. And if I go the F4 route, I might pair it with a Burning Amp, serving as a preamp. While I have the time and money, I might try building a BeePre kit to use as an alternative preamp. Too bad BH doesn't offer the 2A3 Paramour monoblocks anymore, though I believe the Paramounts can be converted with some bother.

You are describing a Burning Amp. The Burning Amp comprises gain stage + output stage (identical to F4 output stage) in different configurations. It is essentially a high gain F4.

If I wanted to drive the amp off the output of another amplifier (like a fleawatt SET) I would choose the F4. If I wanted an amp that is easier to drive, I would choose the Burning Amp BA-3.

moremoremore · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Nov 2017, 08:14 pm »

Hmm. This is going all over the place, isn't it?

roscoe65 · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Nov 2017, 10:13 pm »

Seems to do so. You can also use the Burning Amp with the output stage only. With the single-ended output option, you might have an improved F4.

moremoremore · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Nov 2017, 12:57 pm »

Okay, I've cut bait. Another AC member is selling me his F6, and I just bought an MZ2 preamp from LTA. I've emailed Louis about the possibility of a pair of Super Alnico High Ouput speakers in a two-tone finish (ebony with maple birdseye face).

nature boy · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 Nov 2017, 02:15 pm »

Quote from: moremoremore on 26 Nov 2017, 12:57 pm

Okay, I've cut bait. Another AC member is selling me his F6, and I just bought an MZ2 preamp from LTA. I've emailed Louis about the possibility of a pair of Super Alnico High Ouput speakers in a two-tone finish (ebony with maple birdseye face).

You'll love the SAHO speakers, especially in two tone.

NB

searcher · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Nov 2017, 11:20 am »

Sugden is a class A amplifier so it will be very nice. Mine works fine with ProAc

moremoremore · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Dec 2017, 01:23 pm »

I ended up buying a First Watt F6 from member golfrod (that transaction went very well and I heartily endorse him). My LTA MZ2 will be arriving mid-week, and I know Louis is busy building my speakers. It's going to be a fun December!

Now I'm thinking about my source. Lately I've been streaming into a NAD D 1050 and that's been adequate, but I'd rather use a CD player. I'm torn between getting a Rega (new) Apollo or Saturn-R or Line Magnetic 515CD or even a Cambridge Audio CXC and Schiit Yggdrasil. My gut impulse is to go with the Saturn. Any ideas? Yeah, vinyl is great, but I no longer have any and I don't want to spend huge bucks on a turntable, cartridge, phono preamp, RCM, etc., in addition to rebuilding a vinyl collection. Besides, I listen predominantly to classical music, and 99+% of that would have to be acquired used, which is fine if you're into hitting all the used bins, but I'm not into that anymore.