1.5 full rangers...does phase affect the perceived music beyond frequency rsp?

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PeterKK

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If each driver has a separate enclosure, the bottom driver may be well stuffed which will decreased treble and enhance bass, no electric component is need.

Thanks for your reply, interesting! So the 1.5 is in reality much more complex than just putting 2 drivers in parallel. It does make sense to have the 2nd driver delivering lower frequencies as they are less directional so in a sense the single driver nature of the speaker is preserved in a way. 

planet10

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With 1.5 you have 2 drivers connected in parallel with one having  series inductor to roll it off. With a typical voltage amp this means a nominal increase in bass output of 6 dB, optimally roll-off frequency being chossen based on where the baffle step is.

One can also do a series connection with a cap shunting the driver to be rolled off. No gain in the bass and the rolloff point is. not as critical.

Here is a document that explains in more detail — including current amps and the text book formulas for the filter part size. http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/Dual-Driver-Wiring.pdf

dave

FullRangeMan

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With two drivers the loss of point source dispersion should be consider.

PeterKK

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With two drivers the loss of point source dispersion should be consider.

Yea, so I own both a pure single driver and a 1.5 (not the same speaker), still they sound very different to me.

FullRangeMan

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What do you prefer?

PeterKK

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They are very different but the single driver has a presence and speed that it's not there on the 1.5 (they are both 4 inch drivers).

FullRangeMan

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Great, thanks for inform it save me a lot of money :thumb:

planet10

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Pictures?

dave

DaveC113

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They are very different but the single driver has a presence and speed that it's not there on the 1.5 (they are both 4 inch drivers).

This can be simply a perception of frequency response. With a single 4" driver you're missing a lot from the mid bass down, and a lot less from the double. So a more prominent midrange can make the speaker sound "faster" and with more presence, but that doesn't mean it's more accurate or preferable to everyone.

IMO it's definitely possible to successfully integrate other drivers but it's not as simple, easy. or cheap vs a straight single driver.

PeterKK

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This can be simply a perception of frequency response. With a single 4" driver you're missing a lot from the mid bass down, and a lot less from the double. So a more prominent midrange can make the speaker sound "faster" and with more presence, but that doesn't mean it's more accurate or preferable to everyone.

IMO it's definitely possible to successfully integrate other drivers but it's not as simple, easy. or cheap vs a straight single driver.

Hi, tbh I don't care much about frequency response or accuracy, I only care about the sound: if it's enjoyable to listen to then I'm all for it! Having said that I'm sure that more drivers can be integrated and the 1.5 is not that bad after all, it's just that the single driver approach has a purity to it that it's difficult to replicate (I think Kondo San has said that the combination of SET amplification + single driver speakers brings the most realistic result).

planet10

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With a single 4" driver you're missing a lot from the mid bass down, and a lot less from the double.

We would have to know what drivers (& box) he is using to say that. But even a really solid 4” is usually down below the mid bass (40-80 Hz), but they will have limited ability to shift air.

dave

PeterKK

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We would have to know what drivers (& box) he is using to say that. But even a really solid 4” is usually down below the mid bass (40-80 Hz), but they will have limited ability to shift air.

dave

I'm using the 47 Labs 4722 in a small room and in full honesty I don't feel I'm missing anything on the low end, it's a spectacular speaker.

DaveC113

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Hi, tbh I don't care much about frequency response or accuracy, I only care about the sound: if it's enjoyable to listen to then I'm all for it! Having said that I'm sure that more drivers can be integrated and the 1.5 is not that bad after all, it's just that the single driver approach has a purity to it that it's difficult to replicate (I think Kondo San has said that the combination of SET amplification + single driver speakers brings the most realistic result).

Sure, no problem in doing what sounds good to you.  :thumb:   

I agree with Kondo San's statement with some music, and at lower SPLs. Single drivers can't really do justice to lots of genres of music when played at realistic SPLs.

planet10

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https://www.sakurasystems.com/speakers/lens.html

[im]https://www.sakurasystems.com/image/4722.jpg[/img]

It is rated at 85 dB, meaning it could well have decent extension, but the 5 litre enclosure will be a limiting bass response.

But the only important thing is that your hifi connects you to the emotion in the music. I have little (so called) computer speakers with 3” drivers and yes, they have little bass below 80 Hz, but they sound fantastic.

What drivers are in the 1.5 way?

dave

DaveC113

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We would have to know what drivers (& box) he is using to say that. But even a really solid 4” is usually down below the mid bass (40-80 Hz), but they will have limited ability to shift air.

dave

Well, I wasn't very specific... ;)

A 4" can sound very clear and with great presence, but all I'm saying is, it's not that accurate in the lower frequencies and the lack of bass makes it seem clear. And for this to really work out the highs need to be tamed down too imo.

I get their appeal, I mean I'm currently using modified Omega 4" drivers with enabl treatment in a LeCleach horn. I've tried to get better at applying those dots but it's not easy, I need more practice. IDK how you guys do it.  :scratch:   Eventually I need to get it down so I can treat more drivers, imo it's not an option not to use it... it solved one of the last problems with my speaker I wasn't happy with, it sounds MUCH clearer at higher SPLs with enabl.

planet10

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Certainly having solid low bass adds a foundation to the music, but i disagree with your premise that no bass leads to clear sound.

I have Alpair 7.3eN in FH3 and the same driver in a big WAW with helper woofers. Except for low bass, and the ease with which they play at high levels, th e2 sound the same.

It takes a lot of practise to get decent at EnABL. I have reached the thousands in terms of how many i have done. I could not live for very long with a speaker that has not been EnABLed.

dave

DaveC113

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Certainly having solid low bass adds a foundation to the music, but i disagree with your premise that no bass leads to clear sound.

I have Alpair 7.3eN in FH3 and the same driver in a big WAW with helper woofers. Except for low bass, and the ease with which they play at high levels, th e2 sound the same.

It takes a lot of practise to get decent at EnABL. I have reached the thousands in terms of how many i have done. I could not live for very long with a speaker that has not been EnABLed.

dave

I'd qualify that by saying that lack of bass can only make the sound seem clearer, especially if the bass in question is not of high quality. Muddy bass can certainly make the sound less clear, maybe it's better to put it that way. This has as much to do with the room and setup as the speaker, there can be many causes.

If you have any interest in enabling some drivers for me I have the patterns Bud made. :) He might be wondering why he never got any license fees... it's because I suck at making dots and never did another pair.  :duh:


FullRangeMan

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I'm using the 47 Labs 4722 in a small room and in full honesty I don't feel I'm missing anything on the low end, it's a spectacular speaker.
Certainly it should sport great sound as the price is hi.
What is rare is great sound at low price.

PeterKK

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https://www.sakurasystems.com/speakers/lens.html

[im]https://www.sakurasystems.com/image/4722.jpg[/img]

It is rated at 85 dB, meaning it could well have decent extension, but the 5 litre enclosure will be a limiting bass response.

But the only important thing is that your hifi connects you to the emotion in the music. I have little (so called) computer speakers with 3” drivers and yes, they have little bass below 80 Hz, but they sound fantastic.

What drivers are in the 1.5 way?

dave

2 x 4 inch neodymium magnet drivers. They are floorstanders with a TL design (bottom ported), so a bit unfair to compare them to the 4722 who would be by design faster. Sound is very different: clearly a lot slower and with less presence, but better low end and more “laid back” sounding if that makes sense.

planet10

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2 x 4 inch neodymium magnet drivers. They are floorstanders with a TL design (bottom ported), so a bit unfair to compare them to the 4722 who would be by design faster. Sound is very different: clearly a lot slower and with less presence, but better low end and more “laid back” sounding if that makes sense.

I missed the context to 2x4”. But i wan’t to comment on the faster bit… fast means a speaker has good HF response. What are the 2 x 4”. I suspect that the Sakura uses a high-quality driver that they have made for them, the 4” could be of completely different calibre. The driver in the 4722 could go way lower in a TL. But 2x4” could move more air given twice the Sd, but we would need to know how far the cone can safely move.

Pictures?

dave