How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.

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maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #20 on: 6 Jan 2018, 10:08 am »
About the benefits of MLytic® technology

http://www.mundorf.com/en/?category=hifi&menu=caps_power&content=mlytic

Need Comment For Mundorf M-Lytic AG caps

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/254216-comment-mundorf-lytic-ag-caps.html

Alcon Electronics PG-6DI

-> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/254216-comment-mundorf-lytic-ag-caps-post3892565.html

Quote
They have very similar specs of Mundorf and even the can looks very similar. When I used this the sound lost its attack. It was all smooth. I didnt understand why was this happening. Switched back to normal caps. The Alcon had good esr and esl ratings very close to Mundorf and now I am bit worried that even Mundorf sounds like alcon or do i need to use brighter sounding decoupling caps like either Muse or Cerafine?

[PDF] http://www.alconelectronics.com/images/img/pdf/Aluminium-Electrolytic-Capacitors-PG-6DI.pdf

Better specs than Mundorf and cheaper!

Problem (with my case): 80 mm or more.

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #21 on: 6 Jan 2018, 10:55 am »
At first it will be with the Yamaha so that these condensers of so much capacitance will burn. Then it will substitute the DCB I have with the Marantz and verify if it was worth the expense.

Now:

* Yamaha: DCB prototype -> DCBx2

* Marantz: DCB -> DCBx4


DCBx2 = DCB -> DCB. With two outputs.

DCBx4 = DCB -> DCB -> DCB -> DCB. With four outputs.


DCB protoype with EPCOS 15,0000µF, 85ºC

All DCB with EPCOS 18,0000µF, 105ºC

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #22 on: 10 Jan 2018, 10:32 am »
I am waiting...

HifiCollective, 2 x Mundorf MLytic Audio Grade (AG) MLGO  25VDC / 47,000µF

56,46 EUR, with taxes + cheap shipping to Spain from UK.

Audiophonics.fr and audiohobby.eu are more expensive.

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #23 on: 16 Feb 2018, 03:03 pm »
DC Blocker prototype with Mundorf 47,000 uF and new blue varistor



The original prototype

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/DC-blocker-varistor-fuse-ATL-maty-inside.jpg


maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #24 on: 17 Feb 2018, 10:35 am »
Other person has a DC Blocker x2 and DC Blocker x4 with the BIG Mundorf capacitors. With a cable bag to convert them to DCBx3 and DCBx1 if the attenuation is excessive in your supercomplex system. The boxes have the same dimmensions.

DCBx2, without aluminum front plate:


Here the DCBx4, without aluminum front plate:



DCBx2 and DCBx4 rear have 2+2 outputs:

« Last Edit: 21 Feb 2018, 12:04 pm by maty »

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #25 on: 17 Feb 2018, 10:43 am »
My first proposal for the supercomplex system:


For now without Würth 150 kHz ferrites and DIY cables with Schaffner RF/EMI filters. You know, step by step (first with a DCBx2), but he could not resist ordering a DCBx2 DCBx4 too.


He had a cheap LC Audio Filter but...

http://www.lcaudio.com/index.php?page=316


The Airlink Advanced Filter Power Supply EU

https://airlinktransformers.com/product/advanced-filter-power-supply-asf3000eu

[IMG] https://airlinktransformers.com/images/products/1394708116_photo2_DSC00450web.jpg

[IMG] https://airlinktransformers.com/images/products/615002767_photo3_DSC00455small.jpg
« Last Edit: 21 Feb 2018, 12:05 pm by maty »

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #26 on: 17 Feb 2018, 11:24 am »
By the way, my prototype is burning... with TV system. The sound is better.

After burning -> Marantz system (DCB + DCBx4).

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/AV-Marantz-SR4500-KEF-Q100-ATL-Hi-Fi-DCB-prototype-DC-Ripple-Blocker-x4-ME.jpg

WireNut

Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #27 on: 17 Feb 2018, 02:47 pm »
Good thread, very interesting.

Will this block DC on the mains?
Looks simple, a bridge and 2 caps, connected on the negative line.








maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #28 on: 17 Feb 2018, 03:05 pm »
Yes.

But how much DC?

And with the BIG and good capacitors -> ripple and not only a small DC at mains.

WireNut

Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #29 on: 17 Feb 2018, 03:13 pm »
Yes.

But how much DC?

And with the BIG and good capacitors -> ripple and not only a small DC at mains.

Hi Maty,

For a power conditioner project like the photo above would it be worth installing your blocker rather then the one above?

Also, how can I check for DC at the mains?

Awhile back I checked DC at the RCA outputs of some of my equipment but I don't think that's the correct way to do it  :?

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #30 on: 17 Feb 2018, 03:30 pm »
First, I have a very bad mains. Almost 240 Vac (230 Vac is the standard in Spain/EU) and a lot of DC at mains. And "tons" of RF/EMI (in the atmosphere too).

The AV Marantz SR4500 has an EI transformer, that are more immune to the continuous than the toroidal ones.

Usually small DC at mains is a problem with toroidal transformers > 400 - 500 VA.

Small DC is problematic when:

> 10 mVdc in USA (110 Vac) or  > 20 mVdc in Europe (230 Vac).

With DC the transformers they get very hot besides stopping working in the linear zone of the hysteresis curve (saturation) -> distortion

https://hvdc.ca/webhelp/EMTDC/Transformers/The_Classical_Approach/Transformer_Hysteresis.htm


To measure you need and oscilloscope. But carefully!

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/98656/using-oscilloscope-safely-with-ac-mains

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #31 on: 17 Feb 2018, 03:46 pm »
By the way, before the voltage rise (400 Vac -> yellow varistor kaput) I had 2,5 Vdc - 3 Vdc at mains!

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #32 on: 19 Feb 2018, 10:27 am »
A clarification.

When I speak of cleaning the ripple I mean to eliminate/attenuate the noise (or a part of noise: the harmonics of the AC line frequency of 50/60Hz and OTHER harmonics - kHz) from the dirty MAINS that is in the frequency band of the audio (usually < 200 kHz - 300 kHz in fast amps, where the amplifiers work internally and not the one we can hear < 20 kHz) and that is can not be eliminated by Würth 150 kHz ferrites and Schaffner RF/EMI filters.

Another thing is ripple in DC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(electrical)

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #33 on: 19 Feb 2018, 05:39 pm »
I am a big believer in low ripple.  I recently built a dedicated audio desktop computer and put in a higher end low ripple power supply and I was stunned at the difference in sound.  Much cleaner and detailed sound.

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #34 on: 19 Feb 2018, 08:21 pm »
Months ago, my TV system:

DCB (prototype, cheap EPCOS) + DCB + DCBx2

Until a week ago:

DCB (prototype, cheap EPCOS) + DCBx2

Now:

DCB (mundorf) + DCBx2

and just now is Monday night. The TV sound is much better than a week ago and better than months ago! TDT TV with sound from an AV Yamaha.

DCB and DCBx2 with much expensive and better EPCOS capacitors than the original DCB prototype.

In other words:

DCB proto with Mundorf is better than DCB proto + DCB.

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #35 on: 20 Feb 2018, 03:16 pm »
DCB prototype had:

* EPCOS B41231A7159M000 -  Electrolytic Capacitor, Snap-in, 15000 µF, 35 V, B41231 Series, 2000 hours @ 85°C, ± 20%  (EUR 3.97, now)

and now:

* Mundorf MLytic Audio Grade (AG) MLGO  25VDC / 47000µF @ 125°C (EUR 21.44, now)

DCB, DCBx2 and DCBx4:

* EPCOS B41505A7189M000 -  Electrolytic Capacitor, Long Life, 18000 µF, 35 V, 5000 hours @ 105°C, ± 20% (EUR 12, two years ago)

prices without taxes (UK 19%) and shipping.


GRAPHS: medium life electrolytic capacitor


WireNut

Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #36 on: 20 Feb 2018, 06:31 pm »
Maty,

Are you affiliated with ATL?

Can you give me links on these products?

Thanks.

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #37 on: 20 Feb 2018, 06:51 pm »
https://www.google.com/search?q=atl+hi-fi

-> https://www.atlhifi.com/

-> -> https://www.atlhifi.com/contact/

-> https://www.ebay.com/usr/al_tsankov

-> -> https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=al_tsankov&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&searchInterval=30

I am just a Spanish buyer. We were thinking DC Blocker boxes together -> we have exchanged many emails. And I have helped others who have asked for my help, without charging anything.


********* ********* ***********

Leibowitz, Royal PO - Moussorgsky ‎– A Night On Bare Mountain, Pictures At An Exhibition (1963) (Vinyl, *******, Analogue Productions 2009 Remastered, 45rpm) {24-96} [FLAC]

https://www.discogs.com/es/Moussorgsky-Royal-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Leibowitz-The-Power-Of-The-Orchestra-A-Night-On-The-Bare-Mo/master/372770


Very great rip/music/sound!

I continue to marvel at how a speakers with a 5,25" coaxial can play an orchestral mass so well. KEF Q100 (cheap tweaked).

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #38 on: 20 Feb 2018, 08:10 pm »
I have been standing all the time, moving from side to side, waving my arms like an orchestra conductor!

One word: EMOTION.

maty

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Re: How to clean the DC at mains. And ripple too.
« Reply #39 on: 22 Feb 2018, 04:06 pm »
Audio Grade DC Blocker - HF Filter by Holton Audio

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/238116-audio-grade-dc-blocker-hf-filter-by-holton-audio/


Holton DC Blocker One

https://holtonprecisionaudio.com/products/holton-dc-blocker-one

AUS $490 = EUR 311 = USD 384.5

It has a RF/EMI inlet. Only one output. Without varistor. Well, two meters.

The price is audiophile!