[John Casler]

I am posting this mini-pre-review in the Market Square section since I am a Bryston Dealer.

It has been some time since I have heard the BP25 and I have never heard the BP25DA (with DAC) in my system.

I recently purchased one of these for one of my "friend/clients" and he was receptive to my "burning it in" so to speak.  

Thanks Hugh

The secret is that Bryston totally burns all their units in before shipment, but this allowed me to really get familar with this Pre-amp.

Well right now, I am jumping up and down.    

As a preview, I plugged the unit in and gave it 2 hours to warm up.  Then played my reference CD from begining to end, using the analog outs from the MiniMax CDP.

Right off the bat, I noticed that tone, timbre, and blackness were better.

Depth was so great (and I am a fan of image depth) that I had to listen to a couple tracks twice.  I might mention that all this was "WITHOUT" using my Bedini Clarifier!!!

Well I was tempted to call Hugh and tell him that he would have to wait while I ordered him "another" BP25DA since this one sounded so good I would have to keep it in my system.

But before making the call, I decided to try the DAC in the unit and "wired" the coax out of the Mini, to DAC1 input (it has 2 inputs)

Well forget what I said before.  This is even better.

Bad Plus, Bela Fleck, Black Light Syndrome, Dire Straits, Josh Groban, Carl Saunders Sextet in SF, Bruce Hornsby, Eva Cassidy, and cut after Reference Cut, sailed by and in each one (which I have heard countless times) I hear it BETTER

It just very simply, across the board, was better

This was in the plain light of day and not in a darkened room in the dead of night with the lights off.  I closed my eyes and the detailed images of multiple instruments and performers was incredibly placed in front of me.

Complex passages of dynamic and rythmic patterns were easily tranposed to that space, with a clairty, and tonal quality that was just one step closer to the actual event.

Some metallic percussion instruments that tended to sound "slightly" tinny, tizzy or harsh, now sounded like "rich" metal.  It was great

Now recently I have been experimenting with "straight wire/no gain" listening.

DO NOT TRY THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    
DO NOT TRY THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    
DO NOT TRY THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

This is where I run my CDP straight into my amp with 1/2 meter of AudioQuest Cheetah interconnect.

The sound is glorius, dynamic and until today, the best I had heard in my system.

The Bryston is better.  Why?  Quite simply, I'm sure it is a MUCH BETTER DAC.

I have to get one of these things.  

Recently I have heard some very impressive Preamps, including the Placette (both active and passive) with some very impressive DACs (one listing for around $8K).

While these were in different systems, rooms and speakers, I would be very surprised if they could "substantially" better what I am listening to right now.    But boy it would be fun to try

I would think that the weak point here is the transport (using the MiniMax) and it isn't too shabby.

It will be all I can do to hold off ordering this peice, until I hear the DEQX PDC-2.6, which I would like to get in the system in the next week or so.

If the DEQX doesn't have a leg up with its "correctional abilities". I know what my next preamp will be ,

Hugh, you are gonna have a good time, and your ears are going to "like you a lot"

Main System= MiniMax CDP>Super Secret Digital IC>Bryston BP25DA>AudioQuest Cheetah IC>Son Of AMPZilla>Super Secret Silver Speaker Cables>VMPS BCSE 626R Speakers.

Bass System = BP25DA>AudioQuest Cheetah IC>NHT X-2 x-over>AudioQuest Cheetah ICs>Cinenova (1000wpc @ 2 ohms)>AudioQuest Pikes Peak Speaker Cables> Two Pair VMPS LARGER Subs stacked with one pair firing forward and one pair firing outward.

[lonewolfny42]

Nice looking preamp...and remote to boot , nice !!

[sys1]

Mr.Casler-  

1. Was the BP25DA equiped with the MPS-2 PS?
2. You should try it with a real transport, take a look at the Stello.
3. The DEQX may have a leg up with its "correctional abilities." but it's sound quality will be limit by it's SMPS.

[John Casler]

Mr.Casler-  

1. Was the BP25DA equiped with the MPS-2 PS?
2. You should try it with a real transport, take a look at the Stello.
3. The DEQX may have a leg up with its "correctional abilities." but it's sound quality will be limit by it's SMPS.

Hi sys1,

No, it was the stock Power Supply and the bass was still excellent.  I can only imagine what it would sound like with the MPS-2.

I can only assume that a better "transport", Power Supply, and Digital Cable, could all offer an even better result.

Since the VMPS are already "minimum phase", and I have a well treated room. it would seem that the DEQX would have less improvement on much but the lower bass, but we will see.

[John Casler]

Nice looking preamp...and remote to boot , nice !!

Hey LWNY,

If you like the look of the BP25 (and I do too) the facelift on the new BP26 is even sleeker (electronically the same except for the new Power supply)

http://www.bryston.ca/press/bp26_memo.html

[zybar]

Hi sys1,

No, it was the stock Power Supply and the bass was still excellent.  I can only imagine what it would sound like with the MPS-2.

I can only assume that a better "transport", Power Supply, and Digital Cable, could all offer an even better result.

Since the VMPS are already "minimum phase", and I have a well treated room. it would seem that the DEQX would have less improvement on much but the lower bass, but we will see.

John,

I will be very interested to see your results with the DEQX.

Mr graphs show some interesting measurements with the 40's.  I will post  a few later today.  

Room correction ABSOLUTELY improves the sound for both music and movies.

What is the list price on the Bryston?

George

[zybar]

John,

How about some pictures of the system?

I am really curious about the sub placement.

Have you measured the sub performance yet?

George

[John Casler]

John,

I will be very interested to see your results with the DEQX.

Mr graphs show some interesting measurements with the 40's.  I will post  a few later today.  

Room correction ABSOLUTELY improves the sound for both music and movies.

What is the list price on the Bryston?

George

Hi George,

I too am looking forward to "playing" with the DEQX.  I do however, have a bit of reluctance to take Mid and HF measurements too seriously, since they all are "summed" from all sources direct and reflective.  Even in a teated room there is still a large quantity of "room generated" response.

The biggest conceptual hurdle for me is how to best "use" the room, and "subtract" the room, for the best overall result.  And measuring the room/system response and treating the result by adjusting the signal from the system seems akin to treating a mental patient who is treating themselves

You know, treating their reaction/interaction to their environment and adjusting both them (medication/therapy) and their environment (institutionalization) to try and acheive normalcy

Shades of Pink Floyd  

The biggest impediment to comparing "miked" response to human "ear/brain" response is the "precedence effect and sensory rejection" levels.  These can certainly be investigated and programed into a very sophisticated mike and progamming algorythm, but because every individual is different and this difference is further skewed by specifc SPLs, it is a final adjustment that will still require "personal and preferential" adjustment.  And that is location specific to the space in the room the size of a human head

Bass frequencies are certainly another animal, and because of their size, they seem to require "specific" treatment "and" manipulation due to room dimensions and treatment.  Even then they are only "improved", not cured.

So, because we listen within the confines of a "structured space" which has a direct affect on the sound, we have to "tune" the room.

Even an Anechoic Chamber would not give us what we want, since the "shaping" of the sound (at least for me) is different for different frequencies.

What I want a DEQX unit to do is:

1) Measure the "direct" sound from the speaker in the mid and HF ranges and "reject" the reflected sound at the rejection level of my hearing/brain

2) Measure the Low Frequencies and look for summed non-linearities that will affect the perceived bass output. (Modes/Nodes/Waves)

3) have a selectable sliding parabolic curve that allows one to create the intercept frequency where these two requirements "switch roles", which will be different depending on room dimensions and personal hearing ability.

So I see this field growing, and developing and along with acoustic environment adjustment, we'll have electronic manipulation.  

But what a set of "considerations" to approach getting it "right"

Back to topic:

The Bryston BP25DA (including their DAC) is $3395 list.

I think one of the key qualities of the Bryston Sound, as I hear it, is the low noise and distortion.  The measured distortion levels of this particular Preamp are .0009% from 20-20K, with noise at 103db.

This is basically a straight wire with gain.

While many claim you cannot hear anything below 1% distortion, I have tendency to think that levels that high, (1%) of certain distortion types, manifest themselves more perceptibly in the "higher" frequencies and make the qualities like "metallic sheen" on cymbals edgy or non-distinct rather than smooth, crisp, clear, and lifelike.

The BP25A is showing me that quality, equal to or better, than any other Pre I have heard.  I also think it is detectable in sounds and voices that have significant blending of "harmonic overtones".  Low distortion and high S/N here, produce sweet tonal quality, rather than stridency or chestiness as the harmonics blend.

I certainly feel confident in suggesting the unit to my clients and think it can offer very good performance in that price range.

(Man, I have to have less coffee in the morning!!!)

[John Casler]

John,

How about some pictures of the system?

I am really curious about the sub placement.

Have you measured the sub performance yet?

George

I have to get it together with the Digital Pics, I actually couldn't upload for a while, but just got a new Printer that (I think) allows me to upload photos, via a few memory card slots.

As far as measurements, no, nothing to speak of.  I am still in the "adjustment" stage.  Just recently I faced one, then two of the Subs to face "outward" , with the lower subs firing straight ahead.

This seems to allow lower frequencies to form and be heard in the listening position, but I haven't measured, or even played with the putty.

The Bryston seemed to offer improved bass detail and tone, but I still have loads of work to do with the room.

I want to "settle" on the best position before doint too much putty or measuring.  Problem is that moving 135# subs, with 100# dumbbells on top of them around is a little time consuming even for me

Only two days ago I noticed that the height of the LARGERs looked like they would be perfect for stands for the 626Rs, at 22.5 inches

Wow the possibilities of that type of set up are also "interesting".  

They could:

1)  face "on convergence angle" with the 626Rs with the 626R on either end, or smack in the middle (I'm leaning toward having the 626Rs on the "inside" forming an L)

2) Face In or Out like the RM30/RM/x side firing options

3) and I could "reverse the slot" so that it fires "backwards" for "sh*ts and giggles" tweaking fun, to see what it does.  One of my clients experimented with the slot face on his RM2s and found one of the facings seemed to load his room better.