Journey of my DAC 10

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Tan Raymond

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  • Retired and coming back to music after 30 years
Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #60 on: 3 Nov 2017, 08:48 am »
Hi All,
Just connected the st-10 to the dac-10, must say my biggest fear, (harshness and brightness), is ABSENT, what a relief. It's just a touch edgy, if you know what I mean. But it's doing a good job now, thanks to Mr. Jye, the dealer for running it in for me. He has clocked about 50 hours, which normally will take me months. Let's give it more time and see if it improves. Thanks to all that encouraged me on.

Wind Chaser

Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #61 on: 3 Nov 2017, 03:44 pm »
Just connected the st-10 to the dac-10, must say my biggest fear, (harshness and brightness), is ABSENT, what a relief. It's just a touch edgy, if you know what I mean. But it's doing a good job now, thanks to Mr. Jye, the dealer for running it in for me. He has clocked about 50 hours, which normally will take me months. Let's give it more time and see if it improves. Thanks to all that encouraged me on.

Only 50 hours? It will improve. Did your dealer cycle it on and off, or did he acquire those hours by simply leaving it on? I still think you would be much better served by disregarding this notion of cycling it on and off. The technology in Class D amps is radically different from that of traditional designs. New technology shouldn't be bound by old ideas. Why hamper yourself as such?

Tan Raymond

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  • Retired and coming back to music after 30 years
Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #62 on: 10 Nov 2017, 04:58 am »
Hi All,
Yes, it's improving. I like the volume control, wven at very low volume, I do not feel that there is bit strip. It allows me to listen near fueld at around 60spl, amazed.

In the other hand, I am disappointed as I realised the screws on the remote already had rust on it. It's only 4 months, what else will rust??? I hope it would not be like cancer, spreading the rust to the internals. Also hope the dac's and amp's casing are made of better material or better treated to withstand the rage of nature.

yotzee

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Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #63 on: 10 Nov 2017, 08:02 am »
Hi All.

I had more than 5days brake in on my DAC-9 every day different inputs was used. Than it was huge different to out of the box.
I have no experience with Class-D amps, but i will run it for a week before i start to listen to it realy.
ST-9 could be an interesting Amp, i would give a try against my Krell (20 years old)...

006.9

Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #64 on: 10 Nov 2017, 02:36 pm »
Hi All,
Yes, it's improving. I like the volume control, wven at very low volume, I do not feel that there is bit strip. It allows me to listen near fueld at around 60spl, amazed.

In the other hand, I am disappointed as I realised the screws on the remote already had rust on it. It's only 4 months, what else will rust??? I hope it would not be like cancer, spreading the rust to the internals. Also hope the dac's and amp's casing are made of better material or better treated to withstand the rage of nature.
Rust is indeed a cancer. It will spread unless you neutralize it. Of course, if the case is non-ferrous it will stop with the screws themselves. But nobody wants even a little rust, even a little rust on some little screws. If you live in a humid climate you should have a tub of Naval jelly and a bottle of cold blue solution in your fluids cabinet in your garage to deal with minor rust issues before they become major.

rustydoglim

Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #65 on: 10 Nov 2017, 03:43 pm »
Hi All,
Yes, it's improving. I like the volume control, wven at very low volume, I do not feel that there is bit strip. It allows me to listen near fueld at around 60spl, amazed.

In the other hand, I am disappointed as I realised the screws on the remote already had rust on it. It's only 4 months, what else will rust??? I hope it would not be like cancer, spreading the rust to the internals. Also hope the dac's and amp's casing are made of better material or better treated to withstand the rage of nature.

DAC-10 remote is a limited production piece (the octagonal shape) and we will not do that again. It is a unique remote where the design came from NuForce remote. Due to its uniqueness, the remote was made in a few hundred quantity and stored for a LONG TIME :).  Only the remote was stored for a long time.  Ask Edge-Fi to request for extra new screws for the remote the next time he order something from the factory.

Keep in mind that other material used do not rust - chassis is made of aluminium.

Tan Raymond

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  • Retired and coming back to music after 30 years
Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #66 on: 20 Jun 2019, 02:00 am »
Hi all,
Decided to revive this thread then starting a new, hoping people would understand my very very low usage and comment accordingly.
After trying out the 10 combo for about 350 hours, still not used to the sound. Got myself a Mutant PM11 S3, the sound/music seems more relaxed and less fatiguing. Since I have only very limited time with the system, do not want to switch the system around and just sit down and relax. Having said that, I'm very fond of the details the 10 combo brings to the table. I'm aware that the st10 now has a mono block brother, the st10m,  which is slightly warmer than the stereo unit but retains the details. This may work to my advantage, but I couldn't find any feedback or review of the monos.

Again I'm in no position to audition or listen to the new monos, wish someone here had the opportunity to a/b them and give some feedback. Cannot afford the Evo, so please leave that out of this discussion. I like the Nuprime layout simplicity and detail to music, just felt it's too clinical, hope I describe it correctly as compared to the Marantz,  so I'm just hoping to see if I can swing it back to Nuprime.

Please no fuse,  power cable or interconnect discussion here. Purely st10 vs st10m and all others being constant.  Just for info, all my cables are in the 300 to 500 bracket, no high end stuff but no slouch either.

Remember people like JackD, jonbee, Rafa who always give ideas and genuine and honest feedback. Thanks guys.

rustydoglim


JackD

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Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #68 on: 20 Jun 2019, 09:05 pm »
Tan

If you are turning the DAC-10/ST-10 combo off and then back on every time you go to listen to it then that would explain a good part of what you are hearing.  While the DAC-10 will mostly come up to speed in about an hour the ST-10 takes days and performs at it's best when left on all the time.  If you are either not in a position or willing to leave them on then moving to the Mono's is probably not going to solve the issue.  On the other hand the PM-11 being a Class AB amp does not mind being turned on and off for long intervals as long as you give it 30 minutes to an hour to get up to temperature.  Anyway that's my opinion having owned four different Class D amps over the last five years.

Genez

Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #69 on: 20 Jun 2019, 10:28 pm »
Tan

If you are turning the DAC-10/ST-10 combo off and then back on every time you go to listen to it then that would explain a good part of what you are hearing.  While the DAC-10 will mostly come up to speed in about an hour the ST-10 takes days and performs at it's best when left on all the time. 

I used to leave my ST-10 on 24/7. Now I learned to leave it in its standby mode (using its front button) and will wait only about 10-20 minutes after turning full on.    Everything is system dependent.

Tan Raymond

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  • Retired and coming back to music after 30 years
Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #70 on: 22 Jun 2019, 10:49 am »
Thanks for all the replies.
1) I cannot even leave the system connected when not at home. Lightning strikes in spring through autumn here are frequent occurrence. I had two lights blown off it's sockets, a telephone and also Wi-Fi router blown to pieces. Luckily the house has no damage. I also go home once a month or so, sometimes longer intervals.

I do however allow at least half an hour before any serious listening, which my PM11S3 fares much better than the st10 combo. There's no way around this on/off thingy. I was home last night and hook up the st10 combo and let it run till morning before I listen to it, well it's alot better, I must say, but that is so torturing. If it's going to be this way, I'll wait till I've more home time before upgrading. It may also be great as I'll be able to read more feedback from people who upgraded.

Thanks again the above feedback.

Genez

Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #71 on: 22 Jun 2019, 04:15 pm »
Where I live in Georgia (USA) just entered its thunder and lightning season. 


Seen a TV blow out and a WiFi home-phone ruined.

 
Now I unplug my entire system on certain days,  not simply turn off.

Tan Raymond

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  • Retired and coming back to music after 30 years
Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #72 on: 23 Jun 2019, 01:41 am »
Hi Genez,
I'm living in the far north of Vietnam,  it's easier for me to cross over to China then to go to the airport.  The power grid is poor with lots of fluctuations. I have to use avs and despite that things still get blown off. Those power lines and telephone line acts as an antenna during lightning strikes.

My neighbour's roof got blown a hole once, lucky everyone are out at work.

I am hoping more people with such experiences can share how they overcome these problems to get better results for their music enjoyment. Poor voltage stability, lightning, low voltage during "peak hour" and high humidity. Get only 200 volts single phase during peak hour, best time for me to listen is after 10pm when everyone are asleep. The humidity peaks out near 98% and sometimes you can see water condensation on floor and walls. All my equipments are wrapped if not playing music.

Enough of my ranting, hope you all a great weekend and enjoy your music while I listen to mine through my phone and my trusty ear buds.

Genez

Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #73 on: 23 Jun 2019, 02:14 am »
Hi Genez,
I'm living in the far north of Vietnam,  it's easier for me to cross over to China then to go to the airport.  The power grid is poor with lots of fluctuations. I have to use avs and despite that things still get blown off. Those power lines and telephone line acts as an antenna during lightning strikes.

My neighbour's roof got blown a hole once, lucky everyone are out at work.

I am hoping more people with such experiences can share how they overcome these problems to get better results for their music enjoyment. Poor voltage stability, lightning, low voltage during "peak hour" and high humidity. Get only 200 volts single phase during peak hour, best time for me to listen is after 10pm when everyone are asleep. The humidity peaks out near 98% and sometimes you can see water condensation on floor and walls. All my equipments are wrapped if not playing music.

Enough of my ranting, hope you all a great weekend and enjoy your music while I listen to mine through my phone and my trusty ear buds.


Wow!    That lends an entirely different perspective.   I had no idea...

RafaPolit

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Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #74 on: 24 Jun 2019, 05:08 am »
Perhaps part of the issue is this "starved" component?  If it is not receiving enough voltage, that may be affecting the sound and the capability of dynamics?

I had some burnouts that affected a NuForce I had (have written about it before) as I live in South America and our electric grids are not that good either. I have put a voltage regulator for the DAC-10 and ST10 for safety measures.

That said, I have been reading and listening to people that know, and this may be actually affecting the sound even further.  Having a true power regenerator (one that does not regulate, but takes AC into D.C., cleans it and then remakes AC) is a true solution.  Albeit, a very expensive one!

The problem is that, in this particular AC cleaning realm, there is so much snake oil in the industry that it is really hard to know what really works and what are gimmicks.  My best advice would be a true power regenerator like the ones made by PSAudio, but the least expensive one is still around US $3000.

No idea how else to solve this.

Genez

Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #75 on: 24 Jun 2019, 06:03 am »
Perhaps part of the issue is this "starved" component?  If it is not receiving enough voltage, that may be affecting the sound and the capability of dynamics?

I had some burnouts that affected a NuForce I had (have written about it before) as I live in South America and our electric grids are not that good either. I have put a voltage regulator for the DAC-10 and ST10 for safety measures.

That said, I have been reading and listening to people that know, and this may be actually affecting the sound even further.  Having a true power regenerator (one that does not regulate, but takes AC into D.C., cleans it and then remakes AC) is a true solution.  Albeit, a very expensive one!

The problem is that, in this particular AC cleaning realm, there is so much snake oil in the industry that it is really hard to know what really works and what are gimmicks.  My best advice would be a true power regenerator like the ones made by PSAudio, but the least expensive one is still around US $3000.

No idea how else to solve this.

PS Audio just came out with its smallest AC regenerator.

Not exactly cheap...

But, much less expensive than its bigger brothers which have been out of reach for most of us.

https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-power-plant-3/


.

Tan Raymond

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  • Retired and coming back to music after 30 years
Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #76 on: 24 Jun 2019, 06:43 am »
Thanks Rafa and Genes,
I had thought about this long time ago, but the outlay is great and had been holding back till now. Another idea is to step down the voltage. Most avs have a stability of less 1% deviation and it's much cheaper. I had an US voltage amp once and used a step down voltage regulator and observed the voltage is always around 109v to 112v,  this is to me more accurate than my home 200v to 219v.  But then again I'll have another component on the rack. I'm now trimming my system to using only stored media from my laptop, cutting away my SACD player. Well, I loose some fidelity but the living room looks so much better.  Not done it yet, but thinking hard.

Was thinking of wall mounting the st10 combo on the wall and no more racks or anything on the floor. Replace the Harbeth shl5+ with wall mount speakers and I'll have a perfectly clean look. Sign, that will be the day.

Any way, life is about choices, budgets and family. The st10m has to wait, unless I hear lots of people upgrading from the standard st10 with very positive results. That would nudge me forwards faster,  hmmmm, there you go,  decisions again.

Thanks again for the feedback and enjoy your music.

rustydoglim

Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #77 on: 26 Jun 2019, 08:26 pm »
Quote
That said, I have been reading and listening to people that know, and this may be actually affecting the sound even further.  Having a true power regenerator (one that does not regulate, but takes AC into D.C., cleans it and then remakes AC) is a true solution.  Albeit, a very expensive one!
We are working on a very good but reasonably priced AC regenerator.

Nearly all our products have no ventilation holes since we conduct heat to the chassis and use it as a big heatsink. That helps to keep the moisture out (if you play if often) and you can even use sealant to seal up the tiny gap between the chassis. 
You could use a room dehumidifier (cost about $200 and just pour away the water from container every day).Even better if you get carpenter to build a very small equipment room with the dehumidifier inside. 

Genez

Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #78 on: 27 Jun 2019, 11:47 pm »
We are working on a very good but reasonably priced AC regenerator.

Any web page for that?  Will it be also for the USA? 

well!   I'll be.   

Tan Raymond

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  • Retired and coming back to music after 30 years
Re: Journey of my DAC 10
« Reply #79 on: 28 Jun 2019, 02:55 am »
Thanks for the suggestion

Guess my situation is unique, it's like a summer house where you're not there most of the time and can't have anything running.

I'm planning a routine for the near future where I can go back more routinely and get enough hours into the system, but still won't be able to let it stay on indefinitely.

First is to get the house organised  then get rid of all the current main system to allow the st10 combo to be used extensively, then upgrade the st10 to st10m or otherwise.

Enjoy the music.