Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier

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Mike in NC

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Crossovers
« Reply #80 on: 3 Sep 2017, 10:27 pm »
(I changed the subject line because of topic drift.)

I'm glad to see that at least one other poster desires a top-rate xover for subs -- something up to the high standards of Bryston's new equipment.

Right now the choices seem to be complex digital preamps (e.g., Trinnov) or outboard analog crossovers (Bryston, JL Audio, Pass). I'd think a digital crossover would be easier to make transparent, but maybe not; and it would require 4 channels of DAC.  Hard (or at least expensive) to find that at the top ranks of today's market.

From Bryston, we have the 10B-LR. My impression is, that's at the SST level of design. Wouldn't that be a performance reduction when used between units in the Cubed series?

Or do I have all this wrong in some way?

James Tanner

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Re: Crossovers
« Reply #81 on: 3 Sep 2017, 11:43 pm »
(I changed the subject line because of topic drift.)

I'm glad to see that at least one other poster desires a top-rate xover for subs -- something up to the high standards of Bryston's new equipment.

Right now the choices seem to be complex digital preamps (e.g., Trinnov) or outboard analog crossovers (Bryston, JL Audio, Pass). I'd think a digital crossover would be easier to make transparent, but maybe not; and it would require 4 channels of DAC.  Hard (or at least expensive) to find that at the top ranks of today's market.

From Bryston, we have the 10B-LR. My impression is, that's at the SST level of design. Wouldn't that be a performance reduction when used between units in the Cubed series?

Or do I have all this wrong in some way?

Hi Mike

No the 10B is based on a Class A discrete circuit - totally different than a power amp.

james

Mike in NC

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Re: Crossovers
« Reply #82 on: 5 Sep 2017, 10:17 pm »
No the 10B is based on a Class A discrete circuit - totally different than a power amp.

Hi James, I meant the *input circuit* of a power amp, which operates at line level -- at least its input does, though perhaps it has more gain than the circuit in an active crossover? Not being a circuit designer, I thought the two might be subject to the same kinds of improvements. The Salomie circuit started in the power amps, and it's now is appearing in the new 17B3, which made me wonder if it might appear in the 10B eventually.

Mike

James Tanner

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Re: Crossovers
« Reply #83 on: 5 Sep 2017, 11:59 pm »
Hi James, I meant the *input circuit* of a power amp, which operates at line level -- at least its input does, though perhaps it has more gain than the circuit in an active crossover? Not being a circuit designer, I thought the two might be subject to the same kinds of improvements. The Salomie circuit started in the power amps, and it's now is appearing in the new 17B3, which made me wonder if it might appear in the 10B eventually.

Mike

Hi Mike

I would say that will not happen - at least it has not been discussed at this point.

james

Raimo

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #84 on: 6 Sep 2017, 08:19 am »
Is there any chance of a digital version of the 10Bsub?
I looked a little closer on the 10B and noticed that it has volume adjust on the high pass, witch is a little odd i think.
The highpass should be fixed, it is the bass you want to adjust  :| (better for sound quality also with untouched highs).
Some more adjustment features would be welcome too, maby Q adjust and a parametric equalizer to be able to adjust the
bass response to the room.
Maby something to consider in a future digital 10B, to give the owner as much adjustment possibilities you can?

 

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #85 on: 6 Sep 2017, 10:41 am »
Is there any chance of a digital version of the 10Bsub?
I looked a little closer on the 10B and noticed that it has volume adjust on the high pass, witch is a little odd i think.
The highpass should be fixed, it is the bass you want to adjust  :| (better for sound quality also with untouched highs).
Some more adjustment features would be welcome too, maby Q adjust and a parametric equalizer to be able to adjust the
bass response to the room.
Maby something to consider in a future digital 10B, to give the owner as much adjustment possibilities you can?

Hi Ramio

The 10B can be ordered with Low Pass or High Pass adjusted volume.   I think a digital version of the 10B is a good idea but it would take a lot of software development so a complicated project.

james

Marius

Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #86 on: 6 Sep 2017, 01:50 pm »
Hi Ramio

The 10B can be ordered with Low Pass or High Pass adjusted volume.   I think a digital version of the 10B is a good idea but it would take a lot of software development so a complicated project.

james


Not aware of this option, i've ordered (the standard version?) and been playing the 10bsub for years now, without a hitch. Had to adjust the sub level indeed because the amp in my Rel and the Bryston setup aren't exactly in volume sync. Using a very affordable Imagineline ILA 100 XLR stereo passive level control for that https://www.monacor.com/products/pa-technology/volume-controls-and-accessories/volume-controls/ila-100xlr/ from the beginning. Setup once, never look back.


Cheers,
Marius

SoundGame

Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #87 on: 7 Sep 2017, 10:02 pm »
Hi Bill

I find there are a few differences between the BP26 and the new BP-17 Cubed preamplifiers.  The BP-17 Cubed circuitry is based on the new patent we received for the input stage of the new Cubed amplifiers.

The soundstage presentation is different – with the BP-26 it’s a more up-front sound with the voices or instrument tending to be at or slightly forward of the plane of the loudspeaker whereas the BP-17 Cubed has a more recessed presentation where most of the action is at the plane of the speaker and further behind.  The size of the stage  (left to right and front to back) as well as the presentation of the instruments (size and position) within the stage was very close so no major difference there I could detect. The BP-26 sounds a little ‘puncher’ in the mid-bass frequency area while the BP-17 Cubed is a little less forceful. If you like that ‘in your gut’ bass punch you may prefer the BP-26 in this area.

The part where I think the 17 excels is when a crescendo comes along – either voice of instrument. In some recordings where the vocalist or instrument goes from a low or medium volume level to a crescendo or maybe even approaching a scream with voice  the 17 never sounds strained or has any sense of glare or stridency. Sometimes I was thinking the BP-17 Cubed lacked dynamic capability but the more I listened the more I thought – no – it’s just that it is not producing any sense of overload or strain in the music when pushed. Transients in real music are huge and the ability of the BP-17 to deal with these huge shifts of level is something it handles very well.

So if I had to sum up the BP-17 in a word it would be “organic” – less hi-fi sounding. It has a very natural sound to it with no strain or glare.

Will spend some more time with the 17 going forward but so far these are my observations.

Hope this helps.

james


Hi James, I read your detailed impressions here with great interest.   The organic and unrestrained quality you attribute to the new BP-17 is analogous to what I perceived between the Cubed and Squared series amplifiers,  which makes sense given the use of the new input stage.  A couple of my other key perceptions of the Cubed vs Squared were a general increase in the sense of warmth and harmonic nuance, .  There wasn't so much an increase in soundstage size but it was easier to pick out the faintest details deep in the soundstage with the Cubed.

Is this general sense of warmth a noticeable quality of the BP17 vs bp26.  As well, what was your impression of the differences in detail retrieval, most specifically at the limits of the soundstage?  Thanks.
« Last Edit: 11 Sep 2017, 09:30 pm by SoundGame »

95Dyna

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #88 on: 11 Sep 2017, 05:36 pm »
Hi James, I read your detailed impressions here with great interest.   The organic and untrained quality you attribute to the new BP-17 is analogous to what I perceived between the Cubed and Squared series amplifiers,  which makes sense given the use of the new input stage.  A couple of my other key perceptions of the Cubed vs Squared were a general increase in the sense of warmth and harmonic nuance, .  There wasn't so much an increase in soundstage size but it was easier to pick out the faintest details deep in the soundstage with the Cubed.

Is this general sense of warmth a noticeable quality of the BP17 vs bp26.  As well, what was your impression of the differences in detail retrieval, most specifically at the limits of the soundstage?  Thanks.

This thread has been hijacked by those who are interested in crossovers and a BP26 that doesn't exist. Thanks Soundgame for returning it to the original topic. I am very interested in hearing a response to your qustions.

Regards,

Bill

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #89 on: 30 Sep 2017, 10:32 am »
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: New Bryston BP-17 Preamplifier – Dealer Feedback

October, 2017

“Hi James,

I managed to get our very first BP17cubed set up this afternoon and immediately compared it to our BP26 that had been warmed up for the last week or so.



First impressions are...well, I get it; there is a composure to the new BP17 Cubed that is really fascinating.

The sound is both fast and "pure".


The BP17cubed's image transparency is alarming! I am now so used to HiFi systems presenting a very solid stereo image, that exists outside of the speaker, I almost don't pay attention to it anymore. But the BP17 has a focus and separation between instruments that is positively tube like!

Cool piece!

Thanks,
JD”


For more info - link to Bryston BP-17 Cubed
http://bryston.com/products/pre_amps/BP17-3.html


john1970

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #90 on: 30 Sep 2017, 12:39 pm »
Hi James,

Nice review.  I am looking forward to replacing my old BP25 and MPS2 power supply with the BP17 cubed.  I am most looking forward to is being able to run two stereo subs directly from the BP17 cubed.  Currently, I am using a Bryston 10B sub X-cover for this purpose.  It will be nice to be able to replace three pieces of equipment on my rack with a single piece of equipment while utilizing the X-over built into the subs. 

Cheers,

John

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #91 on: 30 Sep 2017, 01:21 pm »
Hi James,

Nice review.  I am looking forward to replacing my old BP25 and MPS2 power supply with the BP17 cubed.  I am most looking forward to is being able to run two stereo subs directly from the BP17 cubed.  Currently, I am using a Bryston 10B sub X-cover for this purpose.  It will be nice to be able to replace three pieces of equipment on my rack with a single piece of equipment while utilizing the X-over built into the subs. 

Cheers,

John

Hi John

Yes I am using the BP17 Cubed that way currently with my Middle T's and Mini T Subs. - works great - I run the Middles full range and then just augment the very low frequencies below 50Hz with the subs.

james

john1970

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #92 on: 3 Oct 2017, 09:40 am »
Hi James,

I have two questions regarding the bypass setting on the BP17 cubed preamp:

1) Can either of the balanced inputs be set to bypass mode? 
2) Once bypass is assigned to an input is it fixed (i.e. BP17 remembers the setting even when the unit is powered off)?

I would like to run my surround sound processor through the BP17 so I do not have to continuously change cables on the amplifier end when switching between 2 channel stereo and surround sound. 

Please advise and thank you,

John

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #93 on: 3 Oct 2017, 10:54 pm »
Hi John

Yes, the balanced inputs can be set to bypass mode

Yes, it will remember its settings after a power cycle.

 

john1970

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #94 on: 4 Oct 2017, 09:24 pm »
Hi John

Yes, the balanced inputs can be set to bypass mode

Yes, it will remember its settings after a power cycle.

Hi James,

Great news  :D

John

CanadianMaestro

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #95 on: 11 Oct 2017, 10:30 pm »
Any reviews out yet on this 17 cubed?

95Dyna

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #96 on: 12 Oct 2017, 12:15 am »
Any reviews out yet on this 17 cubed?

+1

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #97 on: 12 Oct 2017, 12:45 am »
Hi

No sorry not yet - it will be a while as we are 74 units backordered and we do not send any to review till we have satisfied our customers first.

james

TJ-Sully

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #98 on: 12 Oct 2017, 10:23 pm »
That's why WE LOVE BRYSTON. Good man JT!

95Dyna

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Re: Bryston BP17 Cubed preamplifier
« Reply #99 on: 13 Oct 2017, 06:40 pm »
Hi

No sorry not yet - it will be a while as we are 74 units backordered and we do not send any to review till we have satisfied our customers first.

james

Hi James,

Do you have any intelligence on what percentage are swapping out the BP26 for the 17 cubed?