[Wind Chaser]

It might help if you could honestly answer how long the wait will be.

Yeah, that has proven to be a very significant point with Vapor.  IMO customer service is every bit as important as the product.

[Eugene2]

Pricing and wait times are one thing, but when you put thousands of dollars into a product that comes to you defective (warping and delaminating) and communicate with the manufacturer over two years and hear unfulfilled promises, it's shameful!  I don't care how good the speakers sound, unkept promises, basically taking money and sticking garbage up the customers a__ is just down right terrible, an awful business model.  Resolution is simple give the wronged customer priority and fix the defective product.  Vapor and the customer can brag about that, Not Vapor noooo, they prefer to ignore you keep your money and continue to take orders.  I'm screwed I'll probably end up putting more money in this garbage having a woodworker try to sand out the bulges and get them wrapped or something.  God help you if you deal with these guys like I did blind faith...

[Phil A]

It might help if you could honestly answer how long the wait will be.

Agree - https://www.reputationmanagement.com/blog/how-to-stop-the-top-10-customer-complaints-before-they-start/

[toddc2]

Pricing and wait times are one thing, but when you put thousands of dollars into a product that comes to you defective (warping and delaminating) and communicate with the manufacturer over two years and hear unfulfilled promises, it's shameful!  I don't care how good the speakers sound, unkept promises, basically taking money and sticking garbage up the customers a__ is just down right terrible, an awful business model.  Resolution is simple give the wronged customer priority and fix the defective product.  Vapor and the customer can brag about that, Not Vapor noooo, they prefer to ignore you keep your money and continue to take orders.  I'm screwed I'll probably end up putting more money in this garbage having a woodworker try to sand out the bulges and get them wrapped or something.  God help you if you deal with these guys like I did blind faith...

I am sorry for your frustration and hope Vapor follows through for you. It's funny, your Cirrus to Joule upgrade is what prompted me to purchase the Cirrus 2.0, I thought it was a fantastic upgrade path. Oh well.

I suspect this post will find its way to the Intergalactic Waste Bin so you may want to just file a complaint with the St. Louis BBB. Ryan didn't answer my complaint but at least it's documented in a place where it won't be deleted.

[toddc2]

Agree - https://www.reputationmanagement.com/blog/how-to-stop-the-top-10-customer-complaints-before-they-start/

Spot on, Phil!

[JohnR]

I am sorry for your frustration and hope Vapor follows through for you. It's funny, your Cirrus to Joule upgrade is what prompted me to purchase the Cirrus 2.0, I thought it was a fantastic upgrade path. Oh well.

I suspect this post will find its way to the Intergalactic Waste Bin so you may want to just file a complaint with the St. Louis BBB. Ryan didn't answer my complaint but at least it's documented in a place where it won't be deleted.

Nothing useful will come of you trying to start fights here. So... why do it?

[dex67]

someone mentioned the pair of Nimbus that were for sale...yeap, those were mine. I dropped the price from $8k to $7k because I had to sell them quickly. I'm moving in a condo next month so I had to sell the Nimbus. Plus, mine were a demo pair so my initial investment wasn't much more than what I ended it up selling them for. Considering the looks and the sound, the Nimbus is a great deal at $14-18k. Not sure if I would say $40k, but they can hold their own against Wilson, Focal, or Vandy's in the $15-20k price range.

[toddc2]

Nothing useful will come of you trying to start fights here. So... why do it?

Sorry John, I'm not looking for a fight. I would like Vapor to step up and address my legitimate concerns. Have they no shame?

[ctsooner]

someone mentioned the pair of Nimbus that were for sale...yeap, those were mine. I dropped the price from $8k to $7k because I had to sell them quickly. I'm moving in a condo next month so I had to sell the Nimbus. Plus, mine were a demo pair so my initial investment wasn't much more than what I ended it up selling them for. Considering the looks and the sound, the Nimbus is a great deal at $14-18k. Not sure if I would say $40k, but they can hold their own against Wilson, Focal, or Vandy's in the $15-20k price range.

Would love to hear my new Quatro's vs them in my system, lol.  I have a friend who's a manufacture or DAC's who loves one of their speakers.  I think it used to go for14k or so.  I hope they get their problems worked out as there is always room for newer companies. That's how Vandersteen, Wilson and others started also.  When the owner/s of a company stay in constant contact with the customers like Vandersteen does, it give even more credibility to the company.  You guys at least have this forum to ask the owners questions and get answers.  It's a great start I think and I have no skin in the game.

[hibuckhobby]

Sorry John, I'm not looking for a fight. I would like Vapor to step up and address my legitimate concerns. Have they no shame?

First of all, trying to force a response through "shaming" is quite unlikely to work and often raises questions about the posters motivations.  It's been my experience that for every unhappy person re: a product or service, there are many, many more satisfied customers who don't post simply because they are busy enjoying what they purchased.

Secondly, this thread didn't start as a "things I'm unhappy about with Vapor" thread.  Hijacking it also is rather unlikely to bring a resolution to concerns.

OK...I'm done now.
Hibuck....

[toddc2]

First of all, trying to force a response through "shaming" is quite unlikely to work and often raises questions about the posters motivations.  It's been my experience that for every unhappy person re: a product or service, there are many, many more satisfied customers who don't post simply because they are busy enjoying what they purchased.

Secondly, this thread didn't start as a "things I'm unhappy about with Vapor" thread.  Hijacking it also is rather unlikely to bring a resolution to concerns.

OK...I'm done now.
Hibuck....

True enough, nothing in the last 27 months has worked with these guys. Thanks for your contribution.

[thirdeye]

I see more and more guys thinking they have something to offer vs. the big guys with guaranteed warranties, and over 30 years of experience. Maybe they do... But better prove that especially at these prices.

Vapor

Volti

Both have the same exact letter count, and both start with a V...both started sometime in the 2008 to 2011 range. However, building 30,000 dollar speakers that doubled and triple in cost over night well...unless you get the Asian guys going for so called "American" built speakers although they all use foreign parts with an American guy putting a finish on them its going to be tuff selling anything in this stratospheric range of cost.

I know I know... .R&D costs! Or in Wilsons case R&D, and now the 1 million per year Marketing cost to stay in all the magazines month after month which makes a 5000.00 speaker worth 25,000

[Folsom]

 

Vapor was under charging which is why they've have a bumpy road. They didn't increase prices because they felt like making more money. It's necessary. I'm not saying Vapor has never done no wrong, but misunderstanding business drives me crazy. Seriously has Ryan ever told you how many hours goes into these speakers? I think your perception may change some if you understood that.

The simple answer is, don't like or have the funds? Build your own. Don't know how? Figure it out; all the manufacturers did. The attitude of companies preying on small consumers who can't afford their stuff is stupid, oh so stupid... DIY or shed the jellies.

[toddc2]

Seriously has Ryan ever told you how many hours goes into these speakers?

I recall a post that stated 100 man-hours for a Cirrus and about twice that for a Joule, I'm sure Pete can correct me if I got that wrong. That's a ton of labor when they were charging $5k for the Cirrus and $12k or so for the Joule, so I totally agree they were undercharging to build the business. They probably should have raised the prices when the sales backlog started to grow, although that's a tough call when you're in the middle of it.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I forget how many hours Ryan spends on the finish AFTER it returns from paint/clear, but it was more than a day if memory serves. I'd say that labor estimate falls considerably short of reality.

[toddc2]

I forget how many hours Ryan spends on the finish AFTER it returns from paint/clear, but it was more than a day if memory serves. I'd say that labor estimate falls considerably short of reality.

Could be, which adds to the point I guess. I took a quick look for the 100 hour Cirrus estimate but couldn't find it, although Ryan did post that he had 300+ hours into the PS build, so that probably scales back to the 100 hour Cirrus and 200 hour Joule. Either way, a lot of labor...

[Phil A]

Could be, which adds to the point I guess. I took a quick look for the 100 hour Cirrus estimate but couldn't find it, although Ryan did post that he had 300+ hours into the PS build, so that probably scales back to the 100 hour Cirrus and 200 hour Joule. Either way, a lot of labor...

There's an old interview online - http://www.hifizine.com/2013/03/interview-with-ryan-scott-vapor-audio/
"The production process consists of stacking, gluing and clamping, sanding, fixing problems, sanding some more, finding more problems to fix, sanding more, and then sanding some more for good measure! A conservative estimate is 100 hours in a pair of Cirrus."

[toddc2]

There's an old interview online - http://www.hifizine.com/2013/03/interview-with-ryan-scott-vapor-audio/
"The production process consists of stacking, gluing and clamping, sanding, fixing problems, sanding some more, finding more problems to fix, sanding more, and then sanding some more for good measure! A conservative estimate is 100 hours in a pair of Cirrus."

Thanks Phil!

[Eugene2]

I'm not picking a fight don't care about the thread just telling my story as a warning,  I have been faithful to Vapor convincing many people to buy from them. I hooked him up with Mike at Verastarr, spoke to Doug Schroeder of Dagogo on the phone for over an hour endorsing Vapor and assisting in his addendum to the Joule review, communicated in private with Dragon Vibe trying to abate his frustration, and going to lunch with Ryan and Mike of Verastarr in Atlanta after the passing of his wife, so I am not an arbitrary poster.  I am very disheartened at the way I have been treated and chose to post after reading all the new product they are pushing out, while ignoring those they have wronged.
I am exhausted fighting with this company, I refused early to use the blogs to voiice my dissatisfaction and will stop here, hopefully I have helped someone else from being taken advantage of... 

[toddc2]

I'm not picking a fight don't care about the thread just telling my story as a warning,  I have been faithful to Vapor convincing many people to buy from them. I hooked him up with Mike at Verastarr, spoke to Doug Schroeder of Dagogo on the phone for over an hour endorsing Vapor and assisting in his addendum to the Joule review, communicated in private with Dragon Vibe trying to abate his frustration, and going to lunch with Ryan and Mike of Verastarr in Atlanta after the passing of his wife, so I am not an arbitrary poster.  I am very disheartened at the way I have been treated and chose to post after reading all the new product they are pushing out, while ignoring those they have wronged.
I am exhausted fighting with this company, I refused early to use the blogs to voiice my dissatisfaction and will stop here, hopefully I have helped someone else from being taken advantage of...

Thanks for sharing your story. I know what it feels like to be ignored by Vapor, what kind of a company does that to its customers? There is no acceptable excuse. Good luck to you and I encourage you to file a complaint with the proper agencies.