[dbx]

Ive notice that across the line of Vapor Audio Speakers - that the cost of speakers has increased dramatically - in some cases by 50% or more.  The most significant is from Nimbus, Joule, and of course - everyones favorite    the Perfect Storm.

Why the steep price increases ?  I am curious.

[Pete Schumacher]

Ive notice that across the line of Vapor Audio Speakers - that the cost of speakers has increased dramatically - in some cases by 50% or more.  The most significant is from Nimbus, Joule, and of course - everyones favorite    the Perfect Storm.

Why the steep price increases ?  I am curious.

The development process, a partnering of the early adopters and Vapor, is over.  The speaker prices are finally only beginning to approach what they are actually worth.  In my humble opinion, the Nimbus, for example, is easily a $40,000 speaker.  Compare what you get with it against, say, the Raidho D1.1 and you'll see what I mean.  Yeah, Raidho advertises heavily and needs to cover those costs, so when you can get a Nimbus for the same price as a pair of 6" monitors, you're still getting a bargain.

[Philistine]

The development process, a partnering of the early adopters and Vapor, is over.  The speaker prices are finally only beginning to approach what they are actually worth.  In my humble opinion, the Nimbus, for example, is easily a $40,000 speaker.  Compare what you get with it against, say, the Raidho D1.1 and you'll see what I mean.  Yeah, Raidho advertises heavily and needs to cover those costs, so when you can get a Nimbus for the same price as a pair of 6" monitors, you're still getting a bargain.

What they're worth is defined by what someones prepared to pay - a good used pair can't sell for $8000, price recently dropped to $7500.  A big gap between a projected $40k value and a $22,995 list.  Worth isn't just defined by component cost and comparative cost, in order to gain credibility as a reliable supplier I would have dropped my price to recover credibility. With the unanimous praise laid on the speakers it would be a shame if more of us couldn't get the opportunity to listen to them rather than be discouraged by a price increase   

[Norman Tracy]

Reading Philistine's post I am left wondering is it the all too common Vapor hating or the equally common disillusion that a high-end audio system is an 'investment'? With luxury goods the rule is buy it and walk out of the store or drive off the lot and 30%, 40%, 50% of what you paid vanishes in a 'poof' of smoke. Luxury automobiles are a good example of this. After a few years a Mercedes-Benz AMG that cost $120,000 new can be had for under $20,000. Its a pay to play world and inherent in indulging ourselves in luxury goods is both the means and willingness to produce the ca$h.

[dbx]

Well, that is ashame.  I should have jumped on these while I could.  I could have been a Nimbus or Joule owner - had I ever had the privilege to even hear them with someone near by New York (hint hint...)

However, I do admit that with price costs going up, it would make it more prohibitive to be a proud owner of Vapor Audio Speakers.  I would still love to hear these speakers though !!!!

[Folsom]

About fucking time!

Biggest reason why people don't like Vapor or buy them used... Ryan is so busy that you have to wait an eternity because him and Pete can only go so fast, basically waiting on new orders to keep the flow going to finish old orders... AKA the problem has always been charging too little for several speakers models, leaving them inaccesible to customers.

If they can use the money to make infastructure to whip them out quickly with better production quality then they'll be doing great. I would make my best efforts to keep the bookshelve speakers very affordable. There are limits, but if you can streamline and greatly improve the business then the costs will go down for small speakers. Why? Because you're not just trying to sell a pair of bookshelves, you're trying to gain some loyalty with a great product for when they want to upgrade or tell friends about Vapor.

And who knows what the future will bring for innovation and speaker models, for sure it won't be coming without some capitol.

[Doublej]

Reading Philistine's post I am left wondering is it the all too common Vapor hating or the equally common disillusion that a high-end audio system is an 'investment'? With luxury goods the rule is buy it and walk out of the store or drive off the lot and 30%, 40%, 50% of what you paid vanishes in a 'poof' of smoke. Luxury automobiles are a good example of this. After a few years a Mercedes-Benz AMG that cost $120,000 new can be had for under $20,000. Its a pay to play world and inherent in indulging ourselves in luxury goods is both the means and willingness to produce the ca$h.

'
I'd like to know where I can get a few year old AMG for 17% of it's original price. Seems fishy to me.

[lowtech]

...it won't be coming without some capitol.

Maybe you mean capital.   

Lots of alternatives out there.  Doubling the price of a product, especially when you can't deliver, usually spells one thing.

[dbx]

About fucking time!

Biggest reason why people don't like Vapor or buy them used... Ryan is so busy that you have to wait an eternity because him and Pete can only go so fast, basically waiting on new orders to keep the flow going to finish old orders... AKA the problem has always been charging too little for several speakers models, leaving them inaccesible to customers.

Not the exact response that I was looking for.   

[Folsom]

Maybe you mean capital.   

Lots of alternatives out there.  Doubling the price of a product, especially when you can't deliver, usually spells one thing.

In some industries yes, in this case they're doing the small business owner no no's, taking on too much because they under valued themsleves. If you put a dollar an hour figure to Vapor speakers you know they're not making enough, and need to sell more at a little higher prices so they can hire skilled help. Its obvious when you consider no one, ever, has sold speakers thag take that much work at those prices.

[SoCalWJS]

'
I'd like to know where I can get a few year old AMG for 17% of it's original price. Seems fishy to me.

Betcha it's pretty easy to find one that's about 4-5 years old for about 50% of list.

I was in shock when I was at an Audi dealer to pick up my car and had to kill a few minutes while they washed it after service. I walked around the "Pre-Owned" area and saw a 4 year old AMG that was less than what I had just payed for my "Demo" Audi. I can't remember the specifics, but I believe it was a 4 year old AMG CL55 at about 45% of list price, and this was at a Dealership (Walter's in Riverside California).

The reason they lose so much value, even if they are in perfect shape, is that they are so sophisticated. Everybody knows that if anything does go wrong, it's going to cost a fortune fixing it. That's the reason I got rid of my Audi when the Warranty expired, even though there was nothing wrong with it. I took a bit of a hit, but thought it was the wise thing to due under my circumstances at the time.

.....sure was a nice car though.

[zybar]

Maybe you mean capital.   

Lots of alternatives out there.  Doubling the price of a product, especially when you can't deliver, usually spells one thing.

Sadly there have been a few examples of what that spells here on AudioCircle.

I do think that if Vapor is to survive, they probably had to raise prices AND come up with a more sustainable business model.

George

[zybar]

Reading Philistine's post I am left wondering is it the all too common Vapor hating or the equally common disillusion that a high-end audio system is an 'investment'? With luxury goods the rule is buy it and walk out of the store or drive off the lot and 30%, 40%, 50% of what you paid vanishes in a 'poof' of smoke. Luxury automobiles are a good example of this. After a few years a Mercedes-Benz AMG that cost $120,000 new can be had for under $20,000. Its a pay to play world and inherent in indulging ourselves in luxury goods is both the means and willingness to produce the ca$h.

You are directionally correct, but not quite accurate on how Mercedes or any of the German luxury cars depreciate.  Four to five years later you should still expect to pay around 40-50% of list for a car in excellent condition with low miles.  Obviously, lowering the condition and raising the miles will impact the discount off the original list price.

I have purchased my last few cars used and saved quite a bit:

2009 BMW M3 - 5 years old, mint, low miles, around 45% of list
2007 MINI JCW+ - 9 years old, mint, low miles, around 25% of list
2001 Audi A6 - 15 years old, good condition, good miles, 5% of list

George

[Folsom]

Many high end brands (audio) retain value extremely well. But they tend to be very established. Vapor is making the right decisions to get there. And Vapor is still cheaper than them by miles.

[sfox7076]

Hate to disagree, but high end audio is going the way of the dodo except ultra high end.  You need a brand to charge so much.  Vapor does not yet have that brand. 

[roscoeiii]

Hate to disagree, but high end audio is going the way of the dodo except ultra high end.  You need a brand to charge so much.  Vapor does not yet have that brand.

Dunno. Look at the positive coverage and awards they receive at shows. That's how you build a brand. The great looks don't hurt either (talking about the speakers, not Ryan, Pete and Ed).

[Early B.]

I just checked the website and the pricing doesn't seem out of range when compared to the market. In fact, they may still be under pricing their speakers. Most high end brands aren't custom made, so one can expect to pay a huge premium for that. If a mistake has been made, it was charging relatively low prices in the first place. But that's typical of young companies. 

[Tyson]

I just checked the website and the pricing doesn't seem out of range when compared to the market. In fact, they may still be under pricing their speakers. Most high end brands aren't custom made, so one can expect to pay a huge premium for that. If a mistake has been made, it was charging relatively low prices in the first place. But that's typical of young companies. 

But here on AC most people are cheap bastards, so price hikes are going to piss those people off, on principal.

Note - I myself am a cheap bastard.  But expensive gear doesn't piss me off any more

[charmerci]

Based on what I've read, they better be highly reliable and get their product out when they say they will and be very clear with their communication from now on.

[sfox7076]

They may make a great product.  That isn't enough.  I deal with companies that make great products all the time.  I largely help them sell themselves and go out of business.  Happens all the time.