Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics

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ric

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Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #20 on: 23 May 2019, 03:05 pm »
In reply to your first statement, I mentioned to Chris at Jupiter caps, asking "it seems like at some point you just replace the whole xover". His reply was that it was not the best idea to do that, and I think his reasoning was that if your values (ie. 6.8) are slightly off for a number of different parts, it can throw the crossover askew from what it originally was intended. Also, if you just replace a certain value (6.8uf) and something weird happens (besides better sound  :D) you know where the problem is.
As far as describing the sound: I believe the 6.8uf cap has to do with the higher frequencies (there, you see how ignorant I am of electronics) but I'm not sure if this is just for the horn tweeter or if that includes the upper mids. At any rate, the reason I looked to replace it in the first place is I was wanting more detail and air. It always sounded a bit dulled, and the reason, I believe is the parts in the crossover.
Well, I was and am very very pleased with the result, and now hear much more air and detail and strings, horns, whatever, are perceived vertically as well as more image depth and detail.
   We spend a lot of money on cables and components and tweaks, trying (I believe) to get speakers to sound better when they are filtered via a crossover with lesser quality parts, and only replacing these parts give us a real window on what these speakers can do. As always YMMV, but I wholeheartedly recommend upgrading if you plan to keep your speakers. Of course you can always put the old part back and stuff it back in the cavity....

Tyson

Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #21 on: 23 May 2019, 05:46 pm »
I only use copper foil caps nowadays.  Because I don't want the signal passing through tin foil or aluminum foil.  That's going to degrade the signal. 

From my DAC, to my preamp, to my amp, to my speakers - all capacitors in the signal path get replaced with copper foil caps.  I'm not sure it "improves" the sound, as much as it removes inferior parts from the signal path that were degrading the sound. 

I mean, you would never use an interconnect or speaker wire made out of aluminum foil, would you?  Then why would you be OK with capacitors made out of anything but copper?

Wind Chaser

Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #22 on: 24 May 2019, 06:13 am »
In reply to your first statement, I mentioned to Chris at Jupiter caps, asking "it seems like at some point you just replace the whole xover". His reply was that it was not the best idea to do that, and I think his reasoning was that if your values (ie. 6.8) are slightly off for a number of different parts, it can throw the crossover askew from what it originally was intended.

That’s why anyone who sort of knows what they’re doing would at least measure and test everything before hand. But even if I sort of knew what I was doing (and I don’t) I’d rather go the distance and hire a real expert for obvious reasons. Nevertheless there’s quite a bit of information on this subject here on AC that’s worth looking into before plunging in.  :thumb:

undertowogt1

Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #23 on: 28 Aug 2020, 01:32 am »
Well I took the plunge and could not be happier.
Before


After






ric

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Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #24 on: 28 Aug 2020, 01:15 pm »
That's great! Glad to hear that changing out a few parts results in a great sound improvement. I like your outboard, made full size on the back, nice work! For myself, because the Jupiter caps are so huge, I noticed a small (but noticeable) sound improvement from putting some sound isolation (IsoAcoutics, or Herbie's) under the caps for more vibration isolation. Glad you are enjoying it!

undertowogt1

Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #25 on: 28 Aug 2020, 06:51 pm »
So at first when I hooked up one of the XO with the original XO I was mistaken. I heard more high end and mistook it for increased detail. I later had to trouble shoot both of the new XO as they sounded very bad , harsh, little bass and too much highs. Turns out I did not have a good connection on the bass 68 Cap. I was kind of freaking out and thought I made a huge ,mistake taking this on. I was worried I was going to have to just put the old one back together. As well, when I took the original XO apart I ruined the 1.5 cap and that caused me issues, so I ended up replacing all the caps.

As for vibration I wanted them external of course. I also used this very dense rubber material I had to mount the XO and I Veneered it. I had some spike kicking around so I put those on too (looks cool, maybe helps)

In the end I have it all working and it sounds way better. They still sound like the M3T except everything is more detailed. Bass has a noticeable amount of deeper detail and a little more impact. The highs are nicer with more detail. Sound stage depth is similar , more space around all the music for sure.

I found the Path resistor to be too bright as ric stated so I left them out. Maybe I will try them again later, or sell them (anyone interested?). Overall this was a super fun project though a little stressful for someone like me building my first crossover
« Last Edit: 29 Aug 2020, 03:04 am by undertowogt1 »

ric

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Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #26 on: 29 Aug 2020, 01:15 pm »
I would recommend keeping them in at least until they are broken in. I found the highs too harsh on already harsh recordings, but my guess is that the path resistors aren't too bright, but they may be too strong for what they replaced. In my case, I ended up trying a pair of L-pads via Parts Express, and turned them down just a hair, and that solved the problem. IMO they are worth keeping as the highs are much improved. Yeah, I had a number of "why am I doing this, what did I do?" moments, but now that they work, everything's great. Hope I didn't steer you in the wrong direction!

undertowogt1

Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #27 on: 29 Aug 2020, 02:49 pm »
No you didn't steer me in the wrong direction, I am happy I did this. I had the itch to do the cross over. When I took the resistor off I broke the 6.8 lead, then I was committed.

As for the L -PAD , if the highs are improved further it would be worth it, how is that wired exactly.


ric

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Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #28 on: 29 Aug 2020, 03:33 pm »
It's very easy, and can be removed if for some reason you don't like it. There are three tabs that accept a wire. One is for black (neg) and the other two are positive (in, from the amp/xover) and out to the tweeter. For about $20 I think it's worth a try.
https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-l-pad-attenuator-15w-mono-1-shaft-8-ohm--260-250

undertowogt1

Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #29 on: 29 Aug 2020, 04:10 pm »
how do you determine what wattage is needed. Does it depend on the Amp I have powering the Spatial?

ric

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Re: Spatial M3 Turbo S Crossover Pics
« Reply #30 on: 29 Aug 2020, 04:51 pm »
I'm the wrong person to ask, but my (limited) understanding is that the tweeters don't use a lot of power. In my case, I run the speakers fairly loud, and have not felt any overheating around the L-pad. Probably best to check with someone more knowledgeable, but I have not had a problem. I think the path audio resistors are 10 watt. Hope this helps.