Speaker Cable Synergy Updates Anyone

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kbuzz3

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Speaker Cable Synergy Updates Anyone
« on: 6 Dec 2004, 06:08 pm »
This board has been a bit slow lately so I thought Id revist a topic which has not been discussed in some time-Speaker Cables matching with the Omegas.

Here are some sugggestions:

1) Some prior post reccomended the mapleshades I would appreicate any futher thoughts on this issue paticularly with tubes amps and whether a 8 foot run does sound better then the 6 foot.   Has anyone compared the mapleshad "plus" to the regular versions on an Omega system? Are they worth the price differential?

2) Are the CATs still a good match? I think it would also be helpful -- for those who are incapable of DIY-- to suggest sources for premade CAT cables.  

3) Has anyone tried the Hudson Cables Louis lists on his site?

4) Ive had decent results with straight Belden from Blue Jeans. Anyone tried this cost effective set up?

5) Concept of a fast cable to match up with the fostex drivers, ie copper vs. plated, thin guage v. thick etc.

Uke Player

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« Reply #1 on: 6 Dec 2004, 07:48 pm »
I bought my CAT 5 speaker wire on Ebay about three or 4 years ago premade. I do not know if they are still sold there. I had not used them until I bought my Grande 6 speakers. I was pleased with them when I first started using them, but now that I have about 50 hours on the Cat 5 wires I notice that the bass is much better and the overall sound is also better.

Louis O

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« Reply #2 on: 14 Dec 2004, 01:05 pm »
Hi kbuzz3

The Cat 5s are really good. I used to make them for my system at the shop. You can't go wrong with the price too. The Omega cables that are built by Tom at Hudson are also very good to me. The have a great balance between speed and weight. This was what I was looking for and I was a little worried about the speed part because the cables are heavy guage.

Thanks again,
Louis

eardrumstick

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« Reply #3 on: 18 Dec 2004, 01:14 pm »
As an Omega dealer we have had most of Lou's awesome speaker line in house and have had very good results using our own line of cables called Vivid Audio. In fact, we developed these cables using Omega and Cain and Cain as our reference speakers. In fact, the line began as a wiring upgrade for the internal wire in both brands of speakers.

Most of our Omega customers end up buying at least speaker cables from us and many buy interconnects as well. Vivid speaker cable are different from other brand cables in that we use only pure silver (assesed for direction by ear) and pure cotton as our dielctric. No plastic or teflon touch the wire and no termination is used. Our Vivid Flat series also is a little different in that it uses a 5mm wide thin flat ribbon of silver.

Our ICs are also unique in that we use 24k gold wire in a pure cotton braided cover. We offer a silver IC as well at a lower price. Balanced ICs are available if needed.

If our cable interests you visit our web site at vividaudio.net or earthshakingmusic.com.

We will be at CES/theShow in the EAR suit showing in association with Redpoint Audio Design turntables.

Dave Strohauer
Vivid Audio

JLM

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« Reply #4 on: 18 Dec 2004, 02:49 pm »
Dave, I'd expect good results with cables that cost as much as the speakers!

I use cryo'd plenum rated solid strand CAT5 that I paid $20 in a group buy from another forum a while back.  It bested on every count a multi-strand CAT5 I "made" from stuff picked up at Radio Shack for $7 which overall bested $180 Kimber Kable TC4.  

Like Louis said, CAT5 is good and you can't beat the price, but I know there's better out there (at a price thats in-line with Omega's prices).

eardrumstick

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« Reply #5 on: 18 Dec 2004, 03:44 pm »
Hi JLM,
Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you regarding the price of cable- as a dealer I had a hard time finding anything that seemed worth the asking price. But i also felt cat 5 and even the more costly, manufactured, name brand wires were a limiting factor in the performance of Lou's speakers. Our speaker cables are not cheap- but you are getting fine silver (on the signal side only in Vivid Round), and a product hand built in the USA. A crucial difference with our stuff is we assess wire direction by ear- something, it would appear, no one else does. I can't overemphasize the importance of this aspect of cable construction.
Our listed prices also reflect a dealer markup, ie., we believe in the value of local hifi dealers (and, hopefully, their value added services for the consumer such as loaner cable sets and instore audition) and we intend to sell to them for resale to the end user.

Vivid Audio is a new venture for us and at present our only dealer is Earthshaking Music Inc. in Atlanta.
Vivid will be showing at CES and hopefully we will partner with some dealers around the country and Omega fans can hear for themselves if our stuff is any good or not.

BTW, our Vivid Round speaker cable starts at $265 for a 6' pair, about half the cost of a pair of Super 3s.

Cheers,
Dave Strohauer

kbuzz3

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REr vivid and omega synergy
« Reply #6 on: 19 Dec 2004, 02:22 pm »
Thank you for your response to my thread on speaker cables with the omegas.  I will just note that your post does glance a bit on the "pitch" or "selling" side but given omega's limited distriubution I think we can take it for face value that you are trying to educate the readers here on your cables.

I taken a look at your website and the simple design does seem interesting.  Can you give us a bit more information on why your cables synergize with Lou's fostex designs.  Is it the speed, is it the transient response.  In other words I think the board would appreicate a bit more detail on how your cables--particularly the flat line-- differ from others out there and why they mate so well with the fostex type design.

Other areas of interest might be what your listening results have shown. Have you compared your cables to other flat type simple designs.  Paticularl opinions regarding say mapleshade and mabye lower end nordost would be appreciated.

Absent this information an IMHO its hard for the omega lover to access whether your cables really do synergize or if your post is just a sales pitch.  

Thanks....again....

thundernz1

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cables
« Reply #7 on: 19 Dec 2004, 03:05 pm »
I have the Super 3Rs and by far the best cable I have used is some simple single-stranded, 22-awg Radio Shack hook-up wire that I twisted together myself. In my search, I tried the cat5 cables, Analysis Plus Oval 9s, DH Labs Silvers and a pair of Linn cables. I achieved the most open and detailed sound from the hook-up wire....which was quite nice since it only cost about 4 bucks...

Using a modified Jolida 102 tube amp and a Sony SACD player, with great results....Will be excited to see the floorstanders that Louis is working on...

JLM

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« Reply #8 on: 19 Dec 2004, 05:17 pm »
Other well respected yet less expensive speaker cables from from Signal Cable, Blue Jeans Cable, and Decware.  

Don't know how they synergize to Fostex drivers/Omega speakers, but as an owner of Fostex based speakers I'd love to know.

kbuzz3

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RE blue jeans & signal
« Reply #9 on: 19 Dec 2004, 06:07 pm »
I can tell you ive been using blue jeans basic belden with my super 3 narows for many months until I can decide on an ultimate reference cable.  (Plus Lou is working on some TS 33s for me and some new amps will come shortly)

They have been very good allrounders. Bass is bit on the shy side. Not particuarly hashy or edgy which is my preference. They are also very well made narrow and flexiable compared to some others which is nice.  I dont know if they are soldered or crimped.

FYI i swapped in some of signal cable best speaker cable on the left channel for fun last week. Well I love the signal stuff and it mates amazingly well with my restored dynaco/ls35a system but in this case it didnt gel.  cant really say why expect maybe its just too thick and it doesnt mate well witht he quickness of the super 3 driver.

I continue to support signal cable however, and also really enjoy their component video cables.  Also like their silver ICs....but thats another story.

In sum id really like to try some of the lower end cables that have gotton a lot of press recently like PNF, RS or even Soundstring....But this could be overkill in the omega application . So has anyone tried Lou's Hudson Audio Friends cables????

Dmason

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« Reply #10 on: 20 Dec 2004, 01:03 am »
I have been using the pseudo OTA 47 Labs continuous cast stuff from
www.nearsota.com for mine and it really sounds very balanced. I compared several other cables including Cardas Cross I had on hand, and the stuff Abex offers was by far the most musical with my FE207E/1ft~3 BR and Clari-T amp.

eardrumstick

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Speaker Cable Synergy Updates Anyone
« Reply #11 on: 21 Dec 2004, 12:31 am »
Hi kbuzz3,
In talking with Lou last week, he encouraged me to post here- I can think of no other commercial cable line (other than his, of course) which was developed (almost) exclusively with single driver, Fostex based loudspeakers as the reference. I say almost because we also used Reference 3A mm dacapo i and Dulcet loudspeakers in our listening.

The purpose of my initial post was to introduce to this forum some speaker cables (ours) which I feel are eminently compatible (see above) with Omega speakers. My goal was to provide enough info so that more details could be readily found online (our web site), or at CES. I tried hard to keep the pitch out of my post by not comparing ours' vs. theirs'.  Frankly, to have done so would have been pointless at best and really "sales pitch-y" at worst. I would rather the reader make up his/her own mind whether they think our basic concept/philosphy is sound or not.

With regard to your question of how or why they synergize with Omega, I could drone on about the virtues of silver, the unmeasurably low dialectric constant of cotton,  our lovely hand sew cotton jackets, etc but then I really would be pitching it to you.':lol:'

In my 2nd post I hoped to pique your interest to learn more about our product and about us by inviting Omega fans to visit our web site (where I can freely pitch my wares-read the faq for tons of details and my attempts at humor) or, first hand by actually going to a hifi shop and asking to hear them there or, better yet, taking a loaner pair home for a week or two (do other shops allow this?).

I hope you understand my dilema here- you're (mildly) accusing me of making a sales pitch, but then asking for one. I''m "conflicted" about that.
So I'll leave you with an offer (who knew this was coming?!:)

If you would like to try a pair of either Vivid Flat or Round, let me know and I will FedEx them to you for a free, no obligation 2 week trial. Your may compare them to anything you have and report back to the forum. Honestly, your opinion is more valuable to this forum than mine.
I'll even pay return shipping.

That's my pitch and I'm stickin' to it!':mrgreen:'

Cheers,
Dave Strohauer

Jim W.

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Vivid Audio
« Reply #12 on: 21 Dec 2004, 04:44 pm »
Nice reply and offer Dave - although, I wouldn't have expected any less from you.

Not that my opinion matters much, especially as a novice; however, I offer to the Omega Forum members my own experience.

Dave and Randy have treated me with abundant respect and consideration, and are extremely careful not to try and "sell" me on various wares even when I'm in their wonderful-sounding hi-fi rooms.  They offer a wealth of knowledge based on their own listening experiences with a select set of "high-value" components and speakers, which further increases the value and validity of their combined experience since they're not playing around with a bunch of different equipment.  They also allow me time to sit and listen to their gear for hours on end, and many times I walk out without making a purchase.  I go there because the "music" sounds so good and I use it as a reference for my own system and room.  Recently I asked Dave about Alpha Core speaker wire and interconnects.  Dave responded, "It's good stuff."  Nothing else.  There was no, "Good stuff, but let me tell you about my speaker wire and interconnects."  These guys love "music" first, and make every effort to offer it at a reasonable price.

Now, I know relatively speaking the Vivid Audio accessories prices may not be in line with Omegas and such, but I'm sure that the price reflects nothing more than the cost of the materials, some proprietary customization, hand-made construction labor, and modest mark-up to keep the doors open.  And, in my opinion, they're aesthetically pleasing, which probably affects the way they sound as well  :wink: .  I have yet to audition a pair of cables or interconnects for any meaningful length of time because I'm still trying to sort out my room, which by the way Dave and Randy have helped me with recently.  They told be to place my speakers on the longwall of my smallish room above the garage (10' x 14').  Long story short, the music's filled out, not nearly as thin, many less dips in frequency response on the low end with some nice overall low-end boost (not muddy), and the soundstage has just opened up.  Imaging is improved as well.  The only complaint is that the soundstage depth is slightly compressed, but that's a fair trade in comparison to all the gains.  So, for now I'll continue on with my home-brew braided pair of Plenum CAT-5 until I'm confident I can assess cabling differences.  However, for the short time I did spend with the interconnects and cables, I noticed immediately and quite perceptibly improved detail and imaging in comparison to my CAT-5 braids and DH Labs T-14 cable.

Dave has had no problem offering me risk-free in-home trials.  He'll even let me take home rather expensive ASL amplifiers, but I've never taken him up on his generous offers.  Not until my room, the most important component is sorted to its fullest potential.  Then, and only then, will I experiment.

So, my review is an assessment of character and integrity.  Sorry if you were hoping for an equipment review.  And, by the way, Dave is an extremely loyal distributor of Omega Loudspeakers, based on my own experience and discussions with Dave.

If you've got the cash, give 'em a try.  If not, like me, continue to spend smaller amounts of money on less expensive cables and DIY projects until you've far exceeded the one-time cost of Dave's, or any other manufacturers accessories.

Sincerely,

Jim

westcoast

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« Reply #13 on: 21 Dec 2004, 08:15 pm »
Dave, thanks for the early Xmas present!!   :dance:   You have PM.

kbuzz3

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Dave's response
« Reply #14 on: 21 Dec 2004, 08:47 pm »
Dave

Thank you for the outstanding offer re home trial. I did not mean to give you mixed signals and apoligize if it was taken as such.  Many times the tenor or tone of a written message is not truly displayed online.  Basically, I was only trying to get a handle on your product and its price point vis a vis the omegas.

I think your last post is not only professional but a truly honorable offer in a hobby with many less the honorable people.  I will surely take you up on your offer once my amps have been restored some time in early 05. I am even happy to audition them against Lou's Hudson and maybe the mapleshade product. I also generally agree on the less is more philosphy and remain a tube fan .....

I have just had a chance to take a quick look at your sight. One of the things that intrigues is the Super 3R with Alinico at about $1200. When you get a chance could you or lou comment on this model in comparision to the TS 33-which most on this board already know is a two driver unit with opitimal 16 ohm load.

Thanks again and sorry my post may have come off in a critical manner.

eardrumstick

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Vivid update...
« Reply #15 on: 22 Dec 2004, 12:53 am »
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the nice words! (your free cables are in the mail) Joking!!!
But seriously, our cables and our hifi business are the way they are because we DIG good music and great hifi.
Your love of music helps motivate us to improve our products and service.

Hi kbuzz3,
No apology is needed. Your motives are pure, your words mild and well chosen as far as I'm concerned.

A few words about my offer to kbuzz3-

My offer was to kbuzz3. I didn't intend to make the offer a general one. However, with a few guidelines (presented below) I'll extend the offer to all readers of this forum. Here they are:

1.  I have only a pair or two of Vivid Round on hand. We are gearing up for CES and Randy is frantically making cables for the show systems. So I can't and won't have more than a pair or two out on loan- at least untill after CES and we can get caught up.

2. Some background- Our choice of amplification is SET. We use SET amps (and a passive transformer linestage) day in and day out. Our hifi showrooms are tube only.  Vivid Round speaker wire is made from silver (silver is on the hot (signal) side- the ground return is stranded copper).

With that introduction, I offer the following "general" disclaimer::
pure silver, because it is so transparent, revealing and possesing w i d e bandwidth, *may* be an unflattering match for some solid state electronics. In short, the grit and grain of "typical" SS gear will be passed straight thru to the speaker (Omega, in this case- a speaker which we prize because it is so very fast, revealing and uncolored).

The solid state-silver-Omega combination may possibly be, well, harsh. Not what we want.
With that being said, I think most of the readers of this forum are here because they are aware of what I am taking about and do not enjoy or desire this type of sound- even if they are using solid state amps. Furthermore, it seems from what I read on this forum that alot of Omega users who are using SS are using what I would call the "good stuff" ie. 47 Labs, or Audio Zone or Pass Labs or other homebrew, natural, "tube-y" sounding solid state.

Copper, on the other hand, tends to (in my opinion) smoooooth out some of the harshness I'm referring to above and in some cases may be a better match for SS gear.

So, in short, if you are considering Vivid or other silver for use with solid state amps (or even some of the more "hifi" sounding PP tube stuff) I would encourage you to call us and talk to Randy about what to expect soundwise from a particular combination of gear, wire and speakers.

3. As much as I would like to just start mailing cables all over the place- my boss insists that we get a credit card number from anyone requesting loaner cables. We will not charge you anything unless you decide to keep the cables. (or lose them or your dog eats them).

4. The few sets that I have to loan have been playing for many many hours and are broken in. I will sell them on a first come first served basis for $315 (for an 8' pair) to whomever may have them and want them. More sets can be made after CES for demo etc.

5. I will make the same offer for anyone interested in Vivid Flat, which we actually have more stock on hand (and they are avaiable in the always sexy black denim with purple stitching. Yum! Details of this cable have been dealt with on our web site so I won't elaborate here. They are 2 to 3 times the cost of Vivid Round, so try them if your into that sort of thing.

That's it.

Happy listening,
Dave Strohauer

Louis O

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Speaker Cable Synergy Updates Anyone
« Reply #16 on: 23 Dec 2004, 02:49 pm »
Hi Everyone,

Many thanks for all the great posts.

Thanks Dave for posting about the Vivid cables and offering the cables for Audition. I do agree with Dave regarding the cables and they are an amazing product ( sonics and fit and finish ). I also authorize Dave and Randy to perform internal cables mods on the speakers as I regard the Vivid cable very highly.

Thanks again,
Louis