[ooheadsoo]

The big bass solo in Bugs and Bears from these are the vistas, right?  I don't think you would mean cheney pinata.  That's a great one.  I use it to gauge my bass performance all the time.

[shokunin]

Dodson 263 DAC ($2,800): the BEST stock DAC i've heard for under $3K. more natural midrange than my MW p3a. more musical. better decay and sustain. fuller sounding. slightly better separation and resolution in the highs. bass performance was considerably better-tighter, fuller and more extended. excellent overall balance. maintained composure on dynamic peaks. still significantly off the mark set by its big brother which simply wow'd everyone in attendance at the last session. i still haven't experienced the same jaw-dropping experience that the 218 (the best DAC i've heard in my system at ANY price) delivered.

I was hoping the 263 would be near it's big brother, but with the price differential, I guess you get what you pay for  

The 218 in Mad DOg's system was a complete jaw dropper compared against his MW P3a and the Benchmark DAC with the VSA VR4-jrs.

[shokunin]

Warning: The Bad Plus bass track can cause amps to go into clipping...asking the Rowland to drive difficult loads such as my Thiels at loud volumes did trip the circuit breaker on my amp. and the cooling fins on the amp and power supply were hot enough to fry an egg!  

You guys must have had the volume cranked, I don't remember the Rowlands having any problems with Track 2 on The Bad Plus on the VSA's.  I'm guessing that the Thiels are harder to drive than the VR4-Jrs?

[lonewolfny42]

The big bass solo in Bugs and Bears from these are the vistas, right?  I don't think you would mean cheney pinata.  That's a great one.  I use it to gauge my bass performance all the time.

Track # 2..."Keep the bugs off your glass and the bears off your ass" is the name of the track.....  Midway in tune....right speaker....bass solo.

[lonewolfny42]

Besides Bad Plus (Daniel)....here's two others that always spin at a Rave....

[/list:u]

Track  # 1  "Feeling of Jazz"[/list:u]

[/list:u]

Track # 3 " Duende "....(John Casler)[/list:u]

[Mad DOg]

Thiel CS2.2 speakers

Bass was shockingly powerful/taut for the size of speakers, but it got a lot of help from Empirical Turbomod P3A, VH Audio power cords, Rowland 10 amp, etc.

Jon L,

the CS2.2s are spec'd to do 35Hz at +/-2dB per the Thiel manual w/ a -3dB extension of 33Hz. my guess is that they'll drop into the high 20s at -6 or -9dB so they are capable of pretty good bass on their own.  

having said that, i, too, was quite shocked at the quality and quantity of bass when i first heard them in my room. and this was without the EA modded DAC or VH PCs. and then, i was stunned that the bass didn't suffer one bit when i tried the passive volume attenuators!    

[F-100]

Mad Dog,
  Sound like you guys had another great session at your place again. Wish that I could attend but it was impossible.

Wow!! your system had changed dramatically.

[Mad DOg]

The big bass solo in Bugs and Bears from these are the vistas, right?  I don't think you would mean cheney pinata.  That's a great one.  I use it to gauge my bass performance all the time.

yep, that's the one...

[Mad DOg]

You guys must have had the volume cranked, I don't remember the Rowlands having any problems with Track 2 on The Bad Plus on the VSA's.  I'm guessing that the Thiels are harder to drive than the VR4-Jrs?

well, Rich at JRDG did say that the Model 10 had some difficulties driving his Apogees at volume as well so this didn't come as a complete surprise.

and yeah, the volume was cranked louder than we listened at the last session, too. i had to go upstairs to take care of some stuff and when i came down, i thought the guys were attempting to blow up my speakers. also the Manley Shrimp preamp which runs pretty hot as well was stacked on top of the amp.

the Thiels are less sensitive than the 4jrs and most likely more difficult a load, but both can be tough loads to drive since the separate bass module is rated at 4 ohms if i'm not mistaken. low bass tracks on the 4 jrs did cause my lights to dim when played loud.

[Mad DOg]

Reason I ask about the music.....trying to see what cd's are common to most groups. This way we all know what each other is writing about...example  The Bad Plus....track # 2....bass (for reference). The NY Audio Rave does use a few of the same cd's all the time as a reference.

whenever Jon L comes, he always comes armed w/ an arsenal of new tunes. since i generally use the same tunes to evaluate stuff and already had some time w/ most of the gear prior to the session, it was a refreshing change for me to hear some new music.

[Mad DOg]

Mad Dog,
  Sound like you guys had another great session at your place again. Wish that I could attend but it was impossible.

yeah, it was a great session! we missed you...

Wow!! your system had changed dramatically.

yep, there have been some changes going on in my system. as Jon L mentioned, it's really sounding better than ever before...there are a few other changes that i know i want to make in my system and i think i'll be pretty much done for awhile. we'll see how long "awhile" is before i start getting restless again.    

[Russtafarian]

Finally have time to weight in on Saturday’s get-together.

First off, thanks to Mad Dog and his wife for being such gracious hosts.  It’s one of life’s great pleasures to spend time with others, deepening friendships and make new acquaintances.  Throw a bunch of gear-heads and passionate music-lovers into the mix and you have the makings of a fun afternoon.

Seeing MD’s Thiel 2.2s was a surprise.  I’ve heard a few systems over the years with 2.2’s or 3.6’s that I’ve really enjoyed and a few where I wished I had worn earplugs.  MD’s got them dialed in pretty well and that Rowland amp seems to deliver the low impedance current they need.  The LOUD crescendos in the opening movement of the MTT Mahler’s 2nd were handled quite well, with no compression or obvious bass bloat.  

MD wrote:

and yeah, the volume was cranked louder than we listened at the last session, too. i had to go upstairs to take care of some stuff and when i came down, i thought the guys were attempting to blow up my speakers.

Well, we tried.  When we cranked up the Kodo Mondo Head SACD, the first few moments seemed to be pushing the Thiels to the limit so we backed the level down to a semi-insane level.  No harm, no foul.  

Since I was hopping back and forth between the USC-UCLA game in the den and the listening session, I wasn’t really dialed in to the DAC comparison other than noting that both the Dodson and Emperical P-3 sounded mighty impressive.  While the Emperical was more resolving and very engaging, I really liked the midrange musicality of the Dodson. When we were comparing CD and SACD layers, I did think the CD layer on the Emperical sounded better than SACD on the stock 3910.  We didn’t put the Dodson into the mix during that round.

Hearing power cord differences was an ear-opener to me, dang it!  Now I gotta spend money on power cords.  Hearing how the Manley Shrimp perked up when the VH flavor 2 was used really caught my attention.  Though the ultimate attenuators were clearly more transparent and were used for the critical comparisons, the VH powered Shrimp delivered some engaging music, especially when mated to the Denon.

All in all, a fun afternoon.  Thanks to all, looking forward to our next get-together.