[sunnydaze]

The KEF LS-50W is an active version of the enormously popular passive monitor. Reviews of the original abound and reviews of the active version indicate that the W presents all of that and more. I thought your wife might find their size and appearance appealing - if she can get past the woofer colors. These speakers have only an AC cord running from each to the wall and an ethernet cable running from the master (right side) to the slave (left speaker). Signal comes from Wi-Fi or bluetooth (wirelessly) or through several digital input options. Nothing else required. Wifey could see this as a very acceptable compromise. $2200/pair. Google them.

Given where he's coming from, I seriously doubt the OP will be sonically satisfied with these.   

I have a local buddy who owned the passive KEF LS50, and he much preferred my JMR Twins (borrowed -- offered to buy them after auditioning in his rig) and the Omega Super 3 XRS he eventually bought.

He too has preferences that lie in the realm of musicality and tone.  I never heard them but he said the KEF were comparatively "hi-fi'ish", and he was unable to connect emotionally with them.

[dburna]

Given where he's coming from, I seriously doubt the OP will be sonically satisfied with these.   

I have a local buddy who owned the passive KEF LS50, and he much preferred my JMR Twins (borrowed) and the Omega Super 3 XRS he eventually bought.

He too has preferences that lie in the realm of musicality and tone.  I never heard them but he said the KEF were comparatively "hi-fi'ish", and he was unable to connect emotionally with them.

Was trying to stay out of this for the most part because nothing much good comes out of slagging someone else's favorite speakers.  However, you are right on-the-money, Sunnydaze: KEF was one of the rooms that was "1 minute and done" for me at AXPONA.....for two years in a row.  The less I say about their designs, the better, but I doubt that "activizing" a speaker I don't care for is going to improve it substantially.     I'll say this, however: the KEFs *DO* have high WAF.

-dB

[sunnydaze]

...... but I doubt that "activizing" a speaker I don't care for is going to improve it substantially.     I'll say this, however: the KEFs *DO* have high WAF.

-dB

Probably makes 'em worse -- you lose the ability to improve their sound with tubes.  The lost flexibility of voicing and fine tuning with amp changes doesn't seem appealing to me.  Especially when the amp you are locked into is digital. 

No disrespect to the fans out there, I own one (Red Dragon S500).

[roscoe65]

I have learned that I rarely win when I try to set up a "manipulation scenario".   My wife is too smart for that.     Besides, she has been indulgent about the huge stereo rack (and large-ish speakers) in our 15'x20' living room for many years now.  If I move to actives, however, I can pretty much reduce to streamer -> DAC/preamp -> active speakers.  No more rack, no more giant speaker cables cluttering things, no more Mac Mini (and drives) in the living room.  With considerably less "clutter," I think the choice of speakers would be an easier sell....with the caveat that there is no going back.     Plus, monitors are more flexible to adjust to room settings/placement, meaning I *could* put these in a corner of the room, instead of out in space where the "big monsters" are.  We could alway put some fabric over the speaker stands and a great deal of the 'mess' would be obscured from her standpoint.  This is an obvious space/complexity win. 

My biggest challenge is how it will sound in the end.  I mentioned previously that I have (smaller) KH120s in our downstairs A/V rig.  Would larger KH/JBL models (for example) work for me in the main rig?  Right now I am spoiled by a pair of "smooth-sounding" 96dB horn speakers.  As always, the challenge with any speakers I audition is the potential for a shrill/uninvolving upper frequency spectrum.  I think, if pressed, that I would admit to liking a neutral system.....with a touch of warmth.  If I get even a tiny bit of harsh/icepick treble, it drives me to distraction in seconds.  A lot of these upper eschelon monitors deliver "the truth".  The question is: can I handle "the truth"??  I admit freely that I struggle with that.  On every other level (except maybe WAF, but I'm sure I can find *something* that will work), an active monitor system is a theoretical win-win-win.

-dB

If I were starting over from scratch, and had to spend the same amount of money on a single, streamlined system I might consider a pair of highish efficiency speakers (e.g., Omega) and a Vinnie Rossi LIO.  for about $10k retail you would have an all-in-one system.  The LIO is available with a built-in DAC and a 25wpc mosfet amp.  You can also power a microrendu off it it as well.  You end up with a three-box solution (electronics + 2 speakers) that would be hard to beat.  I've heard someone else with modified Klipshorns, Border Patrol amps, and a Lampizator say he would do the same thing if starting over.

Many of us have a lot more than $10k in our systems. 

[bluemike]

Was trying to stay out of this for the most part because nothing much good comes out of slagging someone else's favorite speakers.  However, you are right on-the-money, Sunnydaze: KEF was one of the rooms that was "1 minute and done" for me at AXPONA.....for two years in a row.  The less I say about their designs, the better, but I doubt that "activizing" a speaker I don't care for is going to improve it substantially.     I'll say this, however: the KEFs *DO* have high WAF.

-dB

i think we have similar musical tastes ..I heard the offrande and thought the were real good the kef not so much ,,my two cents of course
the devore super 9 is a nice floor stander with a small foot print and great sound

[blutto]

....another vote for Fritz....great driver selections....nicely executed x-over....and really gorgeous boxes.....and because they are a direct sale great value.....

Cheers

[sunnydaze]

If I were starting over from scratch, and had to spend the same amount of money on a single, streamlined system I might consider a pair of highish efficiency speakers (e.g., Omega) and a Vinnie Rossi LIO.  The LIO is available with a built-in DAC and a 25wpc mosfet amp.  You can also power a microrendu off it it as well.  You end up with a three-box solution (electronics + 2 speakers) that would be hard to beat.  I've heard someone else with modified Klipshorns, Border Patrol amps, and a Lampizator say he would do the same thing if starting over.

Many of us have a lot more than $10k in our systems.

Speaking of which.....

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150200.0

[roscoe65]

Speaking of which.....

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150200.0

I had that one in mind when I wrote it.  If I hadn't spent over $5K in Dennis Had gear in the last year it might have been finding its way to my house.

[Jazzaudio]

I don't have a specific recommendation, but I find charts like this helps bridge the gaps between what is measured, what is heard, what is listened to, and what is preferred.

[Ultralight]

dburna,

Based on your description, and knowing that your budget may go beyond $3k, I suggest:

1. Omega speakers and whatever amps/dacs you already have.  I've heard two versions. (Alinico & RS5 drivers) Both are great.

2. A pair of Devialet Phantom Gold with Dialog.  Yes, they can be a bit wiggy to set up but if you get them set up properly, they are amazing and goes down to 20hz. Sounds great at low volume too.  No risk as you get 45 days trial.  This is the smallest solution in a full range and has plenty of detail/transient speed if you stay with the Gold version. Forget about the Silver or Whites.  Get the overpriced $140 remote too.  Many have dumped their $20K or more rigs for a pair of these at under $7K full retail.

3. Try the KEF LS50 Wireless.  Yes, I did not like the passive LS50 either, but the LS50 wireless is widely touted as being much better.  I've yet to hear a pair but intend to.

I am doing some future research for a few years down the road.  In order to please the Mrs. (aka: She Who Must Be Obeyed), I am most likely going to go from floorstanding to monitor speakers when we become empty nesters....as I know SWMBO is going to want us to get smaller digs.

As such, I've decided to begin a long-term search to find a monitor that I can put on a stand and move into place during listening hours (and put away when they are not in use).  Going to save up so I can wait patiently for the right speakers and pounce when the price is right.  Am looking for monitors that are not a huge sonic compromise despite a compact form factor.  Some things I am looking for:

1. Decent low extension: doesn't have to be below 40Hz, but at least around there
2. Revealing but never shrill -- I am really sensitive aesthetically to digititis and glare
3. Fast, responsive....but most of all MUSICAL.
4. All things being equal, high efficiency is better than low....but I know that this is usually one of the compromises of monitor speakers.
5. Neutral, maybe just a tinge to the warm side
6. No overt cabinet colorations.  Was just at AXPONA 2017 and the Harbeths and Audio Note speakers ring (as they were designed).  Just to be sure it wasn't my hearing, I put my hand on the cabinet as they were playing and....my hearing is fine.  I find that sound distracting, despite the obvious merits of these two speaker lines.
7. Nice cosmetics (to please SWMBO).  You know, nothing with antlers, antennae, or massive Avantgarde horn speaker protuberances.   
8. Would prefer something that didn't need a sub.
9. Would prefer something that sounded good at low volumes.
10. Would prefer something that could be used near room boundaries (side/back walls) without horrific sonic compromises.
11. Would like to stay at/around $3k, new or used.  Could go higher, but may not want to unless the fit is ideal.

Am thinking that ultimately I would pair this with something like the new Pass XA25 (which is coming out as an integrated version in the fall-ish timeframe).  Right now, would consider some new Fritz Carrera BEs, new/used Odyssey Kismets, used WLM Diva, used SP Tech/Aethers, etc.  I am thinking that Salks are not for me -- I have heard them multiple times at shows and liked (but never loved) them.

With some of the above speakers as potential guidelines for my taste, what do folks suggest I check out?  Any hidden gems that I may have missed?

Thanks in advance for your input,  -dB

[Rick Craig]

I've yet to hear a properly measured loudspeaker not be delightful subjectively.  Why?  That's mainly due to the fact that probably only 4 or so actually do proper measurements.  "Goskers" certainly isn't saying to buy solely based on measurements.  We did fly to CA to confirm that subjectively we liked what we saw objectively....once again proven right that there is definitely a very strong correlation.  Dr. Geddes and Dr. Toole know something that nearly all neglect but yet think they know more.   

Floyd Toole's book is good to read for anyone wanting more information. Here's a link that is also worthwhile to check out. A good point made in this interview is that the current approach taken at Harman actually deviates some from what Toole's mid 80's research showed to be the more desirable speakers. http://www.tnt-audio.com/intervis/david_smith_e.html

[OzarkTom]

dburna,

3. Try the KEF LS50 Wireless.  Yes, I did not like the passive LS50 either, but the LS50 wireless is widely touted as being much better.  I've yet to hear a pair but intend to.

An audiophile on Facebook under Acoustat speakrs said his wireless LS50's were not in the same league as his Acoustat 1's and 2+2's. He recently bought the 1's for 400 Bucks. IMO keep recommend  the new Omegas.

My buddy Rex says his Omega HO Monitors is much better than his passive KEF LS50's were.

[AJinFLA]

I can't ignore measurements, yet some great measuring speakers leave me somewhat cold.

I would be grateful if you could cite specific models so I can check out the measurements.
Soundwaves>ears correlation to SQ is of interest to me, thanks.

cheers,

AJ

[goskers]

I don't have a specific recommendation, but I find charts like this helps bridge the gaps between what is measured, what is heard, what is listened to, and what is preferred.

How does one use this chart?

Where do you prefer to omit or enhance and how?

[AJinFLA]

Here's a link that is also worthwhile to check out. A good point made in this interview is that the current approach taken at Harman actually deviates some from what Toole's mid 80's research showed to be the more desirable speakers. http://www.tnt-audio.com/intervis/david_smith_e.html

Hi Rick, I just read it and didn't see that. Are you referring to ex JBL guy David Smith claiming so?

cheers,

AJ

[Jolly]

  I second the Joseph Audio Prisms and Omega Speaker System's newest monitors are a significant step up over there already excellent monitors.

[Rick Craig]

Hi Rick, I just read it and didn't see that. Are you referring to ex JBL guy David Smith claiming so?

cheers,

AJ

In David Smith's interview he noted that Toole was advocating for constant directivity designs but his earlier blind tests had highly rated speakers that would not be considered to fall into that category (well-behaved off-axis, but not in the same manner as say the JBL M2). I would tend to agree with Smith based on my own experience.

[dburna]

I would be grateful if you could cite specific models so I can check out the measurements.
Soundwaves>ears correlation to SQ is of interest to me, thanks.

cheers,

AJ

Well, I am loathe to start "naming names," but since you asked......from AXPONA, just off the top of my head, the ATC SCM19A and the giant JBL speaker shown (Everest?) fall into that category.  Salks of most varieties, as another poster mentioned.  KEF LS50.

Hope this helps,  -dB

[AJinFLA]

Well, I am loathe to start "naming names," but since you asked......from AXPONA, just off the top of my head, the ATC SCM19A and the giant JBL speaker shown (Everest?) fall into that category.  Salks of most varieties, as another poster mentioned.  KEF LS50.

Hope this helps,  -dB

Thanks very helpful. Well, I couldn't find any measurements for the ATC...but it's a cone 'n dome zero directivity control affair. I don't need to see the measurements to know what that is going to look like...and would not characterize that type resulting polar response as "good".
OTOH, the KEF, imo, measures well (smooth on/off axis, etc) and I've heard them myself. They are of course a small standmount coaxials and at shows, often tend to be way overdriven, in attempts to impress the crowd with sheer output. What are your specific criticisms of them, if you don't mind, thanks?

cheers,

AJ

[dburna]

OTOH, the KEF, imo, measures well and I've heard them myself. They are of course a small standmount coaxials and at shows, often tend to be way overdriven, in attempts to impress the crowd with sheer output. What are your specific criticisms of them, if you don't mind, thanks?

cheers,

AJ

I will take this offline with you.  Some folks just love these speakers and I don't wish to offend anyone.  Could be the "overdriven at shows" phenomenon.  I am open to hearing them in a different context.

-dB