***X-LS Extravaganza***

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Peter J

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #40 on: 20 Sep 2019, 04:11 am »
Link to assembly video for cabinets cut in earlier video. Let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/5n3ZYGnEjgE





Peter J

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #41 on: 20 Oct 2019, 03:27 am »
Some fun and more video editing practice for me.

https://youtu.be/az5GBj2wNA4

Captainhemo

Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #42 on: 20 Oct 2019, 05:43 pm »
LOL,  love the  truck on the cabs  Peter  :).Just a   note ,  if you  want to  improve your  audio in the shop,  try picking up a Blue Yeti  Mic.... my niece does a lot of video editing  etc and the   mic  made a massive improvement...... takes a little time to get it right but there  are lots of videos available to help   you  get   it done.

jay

Peter J

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #43 on: 20 Oct 2019, 06:03 pm »
LOL,  love the  truck on the cabs  Peter  :).Just a   note ,  if you  want to  improve your  audio in the shop,  try picking up a Blue Yeti  Mic.... my niece does a lot of video editing  etc and the   mic  made a massive improvement...... takes a little time to get it right but there  are lots of videos available to help   you  get   it done.

jay

I hear ya, Jay.

 I'm leery because my camera has no facility for external mic, which I think would force me to sync an independent audio track with video track. One solution would be different camera with a shotgun or lapel mic. I'd be interested to know what your niece might recommend given the gear I have. I guess it's nothing that $$ wouldn't solve, but I'm kinda stingy that way. :wink:

The whole thing brings a new set of challenges, which I seem to be piling on right now. Just got back from a VCarve software workshop and head's still buzzing with all the possibilities I've yet to explore.

Danny Richie

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #44 on: 20 Oct 2019, 06:29 pm »
Great video!

It reminds me of when some guy said my woofers frames were made from cheap plastic.

And I showed that the high strength polymer material is was not only non-resonant but stronger than stamped Steel or caste Aluminum.




cody69

Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #45 on: 20 Oct 2019, 10:03 pm »
Great videos Peter!
As I recall, I once asked you about joint strength and you commented it would hold a car... and you now proved it with the P/U truck!
Well done as always!

mlundy57

Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #46 on: 21 Oct 2019, 01:57 am »
Great videos Peter!
As I recall, I once asked you about joint strength and you commented it would hold a car... and you now proved it with the P/U truck!
Well done as always!

+1 enjoyed the video.

Question, it looks like you are putting a Brace A going to the front baffle between the drivers. I'm curious about that as the plans don't call for a brace in that location.

Mike

Peter J

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #47 on: 21 Oct 2019, 03:40 am »
I did add that brace, Mike.

My reasoning is this: The front  and bottom are the only panels not braced to adjacent panels. To best damp the bottom panel one could peel the foam off No Rez and still install crossover board. The front is the least ridgid and damped of all the panels because of driver cutouts, the weakest point being the area between drivers. So tying the sides to front in this area via brace adds stiffness to front panel and also entire structure. The Ranger Board MDF is also part of the same optimization plan. It's the most dense MDF I've found. Slightly more so than Medex, which is pretty darn dense.

And, of course, it adds truck supporting capability  :o


mlundy57

Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #48 on: 21 Oct 2019, 04:34 am »
I did add that brace, Mike.

My reasoning is this: The front  and bottom are the only panels not braced to adjacent panels. To best damp the bottom panel one could peel the foam off No Rez and still install crossover board. The front is the least ridgid and damped of all the panels because of driver cutouts, the weakest point being the area between drivers. So tying the sides to front in this area via brace adds stiffness to front panel and also entire structure. The Ranger Board MDF is also part of the same optimization plan. It's the most dense MDF I've found. Slightly more so than Medex, which is pretty darn dense.

And, of course, it adds truck supporting capability  :o

 :thumb:

Captainhemo

Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #49 on: 21 Oct 2019, 04:39 pm »
Actually,  if I'm looking at the data sheets correctly,   the Ranger Board is never denser than  the Medex... they are very similar.  I say "neverdenser"  because   the data sheet (if I'm looking  at the correct one)  shows that as thickenss increased, the  Ranger Boards density decreases.. not really sure why that  would be the case but...
For example,   9mm Ranger Baord seems to have a density of 769kg/cubic meter while  while 23mm Ranger Board seems to have a density of 737kg/cubic meter
https://www.westfraser.com/sites/default/files/products/MDF/Ranger%20Premium%20Specs%202019.pdf

Medex   only shows   a single desity which seems to make more sense if press preasure   and material quantity  /cubic meter is consistant.  It shos   the same  769kg/cubic meter as the Ranger Boardhttps://www.roseburg.com/UserFiles/Library/Medex_TDS_052019.pdf

I personally  like the   mosisture  resistance  and stability of the  Medex not to mention it doesn't seem to chip or dent/blemish  nearly as easily as the MDF.

jay

Peter J

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #50 on: 21 Oct 2019, 06:07 pm »
You know, Jay, after looking at the documentation, they are very close. I'm afraid I was relying on my supplier's word-of-mouth. They sell both.

 It's also confusing as both call their products high density MDF, while some in the industry refer to the higher density boards as HDF.

It's been some years since I've used Medex. Next time I'm there, I'm going to get a sheet and compare. I'd definitely agree on surface hardness. After using high density stuff, the average board seems almost pithy. I use it as spoilboard material specifically for that reason.


Captainhemo

Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #51 on: 21 Oct 2019, 06:51 pm »
Yup,  they   do appear to be very close indeed,  I was  just a bit surprised after reading your  poost and  looked up the data sheets on each product.

We've used both but if I have the choice,  I  always go with the Medex but it is  only available up to  1.25".  When  shipping  flat packs , especially those with dados/rabbets to many different locations/regions with different humidity levels,  I prefer the moisture resistance and stability of the  Medex.
Anxious to hear  your  opinion  afte you play with a sheet of the Medex :)

With regards  to the video posts a bit further up the page....   my niece has a camera that is capable of live streaming via  usb  to her computer.   She  also has the  Yeti  connected and configured as the default audio imput device so   that is how  she imports   her  video.
If your  camera is capable of  live streaming  and you  have a laptop, you  could easily setup a  rig  withthe camera, mic, and  laptop  to do your  videos.  Even some of the  inexpensive  web cams and a   decent mic  may  be a big help..... gues it just  depnds on how far  you   want  to g with it.   I'm  I'm sure there are others here who can  do a far better job of  offering up some  info  on this, I know  people can get s ome pretty good results  with  not  a lot of  expense in  gear

We looked at  doing  some   in past as well but honestly,  it's just  not my  cup of tea... lost interest in  it pretty quick.

jay

Peter J

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #52 on: 26 Oct 2019, 07:07 pm »
Diving into Minutia, an MDF treatise (of sorts).  Super-Nerd card required.


The following is my pseudo-scientific research into two premium MDF products. Ranger Board and Medex. My methodology is probably questionable and controls somewhat variable. Me and MDF and the tools at my disposal.


Before I start; Yes, I have a life. Yes, it may be hair-splitting. I’m curious to a fault and I indulge it…sue me.

 Observations

Appearance:
Both look like MDF. I didn’t taste them. The Medex looks slightly more granular, but I might attribute that to differing color of particles. Whereas the Ranger Board looks finer and more homogenous in color. If forced to choose which looked more attractive, I’d have to give the nod to Medex.  Its warm brownish tone ultimately more appealing than the yellowish pallor of Ranger Board. The Medex has a more prominent “grain” on surface. I assume from sanding at factory.

Cutting:
Both can be cut with conventional woodworking power tools. I didn’t try an adze or handsaw. Machining the Medex on CNC router produced larger, more defined chips with less apparent dust. Ranger Board was less chips and more dust. This would lead me to conclude that the Medex is more “plastic” by some margin. I attribute this to either the glue used, the actual wood in its make up or some combination of those. Ranger Board makes some claim about particular wood(s) involved in manufacturing, but I can’t be sure of the relevance to the real world, save the appearance.

Moisture resistance:
This required that I break out the “big gun” tools. A three gallon bucket and an inexpensive Chinese micrometer. I dunked the samples in tap water for 30 seconds, measuring thickness both before and after. I did let them dry before re-measuring while I mowed the lawn. No appreciable difference between the two. The differences in measurements could easily be attributed to ho-hum tools or methodology. The surfaces of both were slightly rougher to the touch after the dunking and drying.

Stability after machining:
I qualify “after machining” because both were (pretty darn) flat to begin with and held flat via some serious vacuum during machining. Thus I attribute the before to after cutting variance to some sort of internal stress relief. Perhaps supernatural in nature. While the Ranger Board remained mostly flat, the Medex showed some bowing on the more aggressively machined parts. Probably no concern in the speaker building realm as it could easily be removed when clamping assemblies.

Where does this leave us (me)?
Based on weight and dimension measurements and keen observation through my magnifying safety glasses, I would conclude that either is superior to mill run MDF in terms of speaker building. That density being the key ingredient to a few things: Holding a crisp edge when machining, resistance to impact damage and, of course, lack of sonic contribution. No clear winner here from my point of view in spite of manufacturers’ claims. They aim at slightly different markets with their hyperbole. Ranger Board guns for the cabinet door world, and Medex touts its moisture resistance. For intents and purposes in the speaker building world I’m not sure either has any real value.  Their specification sheets seem to show some numbers that would give the nod to Medex.  More is better, right? I just can’t say with any certainty that modulus of elasticity or internal bond strength is relevant in the speaker building arena.
For what it’s worth, I would and will use either with confidence.

Peter Rawlings SOPE-LMN
School of Hard Knocks magna cum laude
   


What they look like:













Sample weights:







Baffle weights









Top/Bottom weights








Back weights








Thickness before dunk (BD)









Thickness after dunk (AD)








Flatness (not sharpness)
















Captainhemo

Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #53 on: 27 Oct 2019, 04:54 pm »
Nicely  done Peter   :thumb: :thumb:


jay

mresseguie

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #54 on: 28 Oct 2019, 06:31 am »
Color me very impressed, Peter.

I'd forgotten about Medex - even though it is manufactured just 120 miles (south) from my home.


Peter J

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #55 on: 7 Nov 2019, 10:44 pm »
For those following along on my endeavor.

https://youtu.be/-qyLOjH3s5s

ebag4

Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #56 on: 8 Nov 2019, 12:22 am »
Wow Peter, great job, every aspect first rate.  I am very envious of your shop :green:.

Don’t be concerned over your illness, you are among friends, many who suffer likewise.  :lol:

Best,
Ed

Peter J

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #57 on: 13 Nov 2019, 02:59 am »
I may be easily entertained, but pulling parts off CNC today I happened to be standing next to window. I was kinda taken by how this looks so I held it up to glass and shot photo. That's .005 thick MDF in the driver cutouts. Gets me to thinkin about making some lamp thing...




JTF

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #58 on: 14 Nov 2019, 07:14 pm »
Hey All,

I'm new to the forum, but I just wanted to give a shoutout to Peter for providing these flatpacks. I look forward to building these.

-Jon




Peter J

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Re: ***X-LS Extravaganza***
« Reply #59 on: 15 Nov 2019, 03:49 pm »
Hiya Jon, welcome aboard the (maybe my) obsession train.