BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS

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James Tanner

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #100 on: 22 Jul 2017, 12:49 pm »
I think you are 100% correct that they could use an active system as a source of competitive advantage. I think an e-mail blast inviting people in for an active system audition would work.
If I were you I would craft the invitation in a format that would make it cut and paste easy, put together an outline of the follow up (maybe a checklist) and send to your dealers.

As a customer I personally would enjoy being able to compare passive and active systems after being invited by a dealer FWIW. :D


Yes our dealer in Saskatoon did that and it was a huge success and he sold 2 systems.

james
 

Testsystems

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #101 on: 23 Jul 2017, 03:36 pm »
How to promote active speakers in general is an interesting question. 

Form my experience in industry automated noise testing was promoted long before the technology was fully capable. This led to false passes, disappointment and a retraction in the rate adoption. Twenty years later it is more capable than the human it replaced.   We can see the same typical history in CD and multichannel audio.  Media always seems to over sell a fledgling technology and claim a mainstream adoption time line not based in reality.

Active crossover is not a new idea, but perhaps the technology has finally matured enough to supplant the existing technology.  This will not happen overnight, but it will absolutly happen in the next decade.  JBL, Legacy, Sanders, Martin Logan, Emerald Physics and many, many others all have active systems.  Now Bryston.   The slow march has started and it is not going to stop.

I am willing to bet inexpensive Class D amplification will ultimately drive mainstream active crossover as I can foresee the hybrid DSP processors performing both D/A, Xover and even FET/IGBT Switching tasks some day soon.  I am reasonably certain it already exists high end in car audio.   

Another first adopter will be small bookshelf / 7.1 active speaker systems where high volume and low cost will drive research and further sound optimization.  With long through drivers and DSP equalization these small systems are making very impressive sound!  Young people simply do not have the living space for the traditional "big is better" speaker design solution.     

My simplistic suggestion is to "mandate/loan" each authorized Bryston dealer to setup a modest active demo and let the customers decide.  Not all prospective customers will have the money to purchase active but they may aspire to in the future.  The word will get out, that you can be sure of.   

Drew

Armaegis

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #102 on: 23 Jul 2017, 04:20 pm »
In pro audio, the mid/nearfield monitors are almost exclusively active, as are the portable/transportable PA's. Installed PA speakers are still a bit of a mix, but leaning more to active these days as well.

In the home market, I don't think the change will happen within the next decade for those who already have passives, at least not in any game-changing amount. Rather, the new segment will grow either from those who started off with convenience/compact devices like the BryFi, or crossover from the pro/studio market if Bryston targets them properly (I think the latter there is the most promising route if Bryston can be smart about the marketing).

CanadianMaestro

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #103 on: 23 Jul 2017, 11:55 pm »
The consumer ultimately decides what survives in the speaker market. Smart mfrs adapt accordingly.

Darwinian selection as always. :thumb:

James Tanner

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #104 on: 25 Jul 2017, 03:31 am »
Hi Folks,

We now have a section on our website regarding the Bryston Active Speakers

james



http://bryston.com/products/active/Active_System.html

Armaegis

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #105 on: 25 Jul 2017, 05:59 am »
Hi Folks,

We now have a section on our website regarding the Bryston Active Speakers

james



http://bryston.com/products/active/Active_System.html

Hi James, there were a few minor blips/typos/etc. I took the liberty of going through it with very minor edits. You're welcome to use them or not:

Quote
Active loudspeakers differ from passive speakers in that the component that determines which driver (Tweeter, Midrange and Woofer) receives which audio frequencies, is controlled by an electronic crossover placed between the preamp and the power amplifiers. This is contrary to passive loudspeakers where the crossover is typically built directly into the loudspeaker. In an active loudspeaker, each driver has an independent amplifier channel controlling them, as opposed to a passive crossover where only one amplifier channel controls all the drivers in the speaker.

The key advantage of placing an electronic crossover between the preamplifier and the power amplifier (Bryston BAX-1 Active crossover) is that all the speaker control (crossover slopes, crossover points, gain etc.) is performed at low level signal levels, whereas passive crossovers are operating at high level signal levels. Manipulating and adjusting signals at low levels using the Bryston BAX-1 Digital crossover is far more accurate than attempting the same with high level signals. Examining the frequency response, the crossover slopes, and the required volume levels per driver, reveals that the digital active crossover provides much more accuracy than the passive option.

One important aspect of the Bryston Active System that is critical to its performance is that each loudspeaker model and BAX-1 Digital Crossover combination is optimized using the factory anechoic chamber, utilizing over 300 measurements. This ensures that the software controlling the active digital crossover maintains the optimal ‘Sound Power’(1) for each Bryston Active Speaker Model.

The overall benefits of an active system include increased flexibility of filter shapes, the ability to make fine-grained adjustments resulting in improved on and off axis response (these are often competing objectives in passive loudspeakers), direct coupling of the loudspeaker to the driver (avoiding losses inherent in passive crossovers), and higher SLP SPL with lower distortion.

The Bryston Active Loudspeaker System combines decades of research into acoustics, electronics, amplification, and state of the art components to recreate your recordings with stunning realism. A superbly designed active loudspeaker system can bring higher resolution and dynamic control to your audio system. The differences are far from subtle and the Bryston Active Loudspeaker System takes the performance to the next level.

(1) add a footnote or link for the definition/explanation of 'Sound Power'

Marius

Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #106 on: 25 Jul 2017, 08:59 am »

Active loudspeakers differ from Passive speakers in that the crossover that determines which drivers (Tweeter, Midrange and Woofer) get which audio frequencies is controlled by an ELECTRONIC crossover placed between the preamp and the power amplifiers rather than the passive crossover version which is typically built into the loudspeaker. Also all the drivers in the loudspeaker (T.M.W.) have an independent amplifier channel controlling them as opposed to a Passive crossover where one amplifier channel controls all the drivers in the speaker. So an Active 3-way speaker like the Bryston Model T requires 3 separate amplifier channels per speaker whereas the Model T Passive only requires one amplifier channel per speaker.

The advantage of an electronic crossover placed between the preamplifier and the power amplifiers is all the speaker control (crossover slopes, crossover points, gain etc.) are performed at what is called low level signal levels whereas passive crossovers are operating at what is referred to as high level signal levels. Manipulating and adjusting signals at low levels is far more accurate than attempting the same with high level signals. So if you look at the frequency response, the crossover slopes and the volume levels per driver required the Active crossover provides much more accuracy than the passive option.


The other advantage of Active loudspeaker systems is the fact that the amplifiers output stage is directly connected to the loudspeaker driver.  So the Woofer, Midrange and Tweeter all have separate amplifiers controlling their movement directly rather than having to deal with passive components (capacitors, inductors, resistors etc.) required by passive networks.

If you recognize that music is essentially a transient condition, a ‘stopping and starting’ as the music signal requires then any system that can control this stopping and starting of the drivers is much more capable of an accurate rendition of the input signal.

The transient response improvement with the direct connection between the amplifier and speaker in the active system. is mainly due to the fact that the main filter components in a passive crossover network, the inductors and capacitors, are energy storage devices. By definition they both suffer from forms of hysteresis where there is a delay between the energy storage and the release of that energy. This leads to a distortion of the signal’s time signature and it will also be frequency dependant to some extent. The other big area of benefit is that fact that the passive filter network has intrinsic losses and these losses translate directly into a reduction in the amplifier power that actually makes it to the loudspeaker drivers. Removing those losses from the equation translates into a more efficient transfer of energy between the amplifier and the loudspeaker.



Hi James,


I've only just realized my setup is at least semi-active  :scratch: or where am i mistaken? :


I use the Bryston 10bsub  external crossover to separate the lows from the highs, between the pre and power amp. Send these to my sub, which has its own dedicated amp. The highs are sent to my 2 QUAD ESL's, each acting as one driver (there are 3 panels inside of course but in a different design than the usual 3 driver boxed speaker), both mono amped by the 28b's.


The way understand it is both drivers (sub and esl) have their own dedicated amps, and crossover is externally set. As you describe in the above?


Cheers,
Marius

James Tanner

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #107 on: 25 Jul 2017, 10:54 am »
Hi James, there were a few minor blips/typos/etc. I took the liberty of going through it with very minor edits. You're welcome to use them or not:

Thanks  :thumb:

james

James Tanner

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #108 on: 25 Jul 2017, 10:57 am »
Thanks  :thumb:

james

Hi Marius

No in order to be ACTIVE you must bypass the crossovers in the speaker system and have each driver in the speaker driven by an amplifier directly connected to the driver itself with no components (capacitors, resistors etc.) in the signal path at the speaker input.

james

alexone

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #109 on: 28 Jul 2017, 05:01 am »
James,

is there a chance that the model A speakers become active one day?

thanks,

al.

James Tanner

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #110 on: 28 Jul 2017, 01:14 pm »
James,

is there a chance that the model A speakers become active one day?

thanks,

al.

Hi Al

I do not think so at this point - no demand.

And in the A Series price range most speakers use internal chip amplifiers or Class D type amps where I prefer the external amplifiers like in the T Series Active.

james

alexone

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #111 on: 29 Jul 2017, 05:05 pm »
...ok, thanks.

the 875 HT amp has 8 channels for amplification. let's say a customer would want a pair of Bryston's active speakers - would you recommend this combination??

al.

James Tanner

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #112 on: 29 Jul 2017, 07:44 pm »
...ok, thanks.

the 875 HT amp has 8 channels for amplification. let's say a customer would want a pair of Bryston's active speakers - would you recommend this combination??

al.

Yes that would work well - 2 channels bridged for the bass and the other 4 channels for the Mid/Tweets.

james


alexone

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #113 on: 30 Jul 2017, 09:32 am »
...the 875 has 2 transformers and 8 outputs. the 21B has 3 transformers and 3 outputs, correct??
would you say that the design of the 875 compromises the sound quality in any way compared to a 3 way mono amplification?

al.

James Tanner

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #114 on: 30 Jul 2017, 10:37 am »
...the 875 has 2 transformers and 8 outputs. the 21B has 3 transformers and 3 outputs, correct??
would you say that the design of the 875 compromises the sound quality in any way compared to a 3 way mono amplification?

al.

Hi al

I like the idea of a separate transformer for each channel.  In the 875 I would use the 4 left channels for the left speaker and the 4 right channels for the right speaker and that way each channel still runs on its own transformer.

james

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #115 on: 7 Aug 2017, 05:16 pm »
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT:  Bryston Middle T Active … Dario in Italy


August 2017

Hi James,

I have finally had the opportunity to test for a few weeks the Bryston Active Middle T loudspeakers system.

GEAR:

•   Bryston 4B3 cubed power amp for low + another Bryston 4B3 Cubed for midrange + Bryston  2.5B3 Cubed  for the high frequencies.

•   BAX-1 Digital Electronic Crossover

•   Bryston Middle T Active Speakers




It hasn't been an easy task because for the first time in my life (I have owned a lot of expensive gear and auditioned much more at shows and at friend's homes) with this Bryston setup I kept hearing to music itself and not to the electronics involved in sound reproduction.

This to say the quality is so high in terms of timbre, with amazing dynamics and huge but believable soundstage the music really seems played as I remembered at live concerts.
All the instruments seem in the right place, perfectly located in the stage with razor shape definition.

I mainly listen to Classical music, Blues and Jazz with a strong preference to medium/small acoustic ensembles, so a performance so natural and realistic is really a must!

James, I really think going active is the future if a great leap forward in music reproduction is the final goal.

Dario Camuzzini
Italy
« Last Edit: 7 Aug 2017, 07:58 pm by James Tanner »

ricmon

Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #116 on: 7 Aug 2017, 07:46 pm »

I am willing to bet inexpensive Class D amplification will ultimately drive mainstream active crossover as I can foresee the hybrid DSP processors performing both D/A, Xover and even FET/IGBT Switching tasks some day soon.  I am reasonably certain it already exists high end in car audio.   

Drew

I use an SST Ambrosia Pre and some of these functions already exist.  A little over my head to explain so here's the idea.
 
           "The line amplifier incorporates sophisticated bass and treble tone controls with four selectable inflection points. Tone controls?! I totally agree with Bongiorno that it's an indispensable feature in tuning one's system, since as he points out, "there is no such thing as a flat room."

So along with your prediction of coming tech I will add the return of the full feature pre amp with similar controls as well, however they will most likly be digital unlike the Ambrosia which does it all in the analog domain versus digital DSP based systems.

Ric



James Tanner

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #117 on: 8 Aug 2017, 05:15 pm »
MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Bryston Active System – The Inner Ear


August, 2017



THE COMPONENTS FOR WELL-TEMPERED AUDIO — TRI-AMPED LOUDSPEAKERS

Last weekend, I listened to three well-arranged audio systems at Bryston’s V/P James Tanners home.

The Bryston Middle Ts driven with the Bryston 28B Cubed mono blocks in room 1.

The Bryston A2’s with the 7B Cubed mono blocks in room 2.

Finally,  in room 3 the Active Model T with the new (and amazing) 3-channel model 21B mono blocks. Each 21B amp is actually a 7B Cubed and a 4B Cubed in one chassis. 

A pair or 21B amplifiers will drive the Model Ts in an active configuration whereby the bass drivers are fed with the 7B and the midrange and tweeters are handled by the 4B and of course an active system needs an electronic crossover so the Bryston BAX-1 Digital Crossover.



It was the winning system and, although powered by more electronics than the other two systems, it rendered the musical material exceptionally well with an organic quality that almost completely transcended the complicated system arrangement.

The stunning performance made it impossible to find a signature sound and rivaled, possible outperformed, some the best audio I have ever heard!!!

Ernie Fisher
The Inner Ear Magazine

mr_bill

Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #118 on: 8 Aug 2017, 07:48 pm »
Wow - nice comment and nice system!
The new 21B3 looks cool,

James Tanner

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Re: BRYSTON ACTIVE SPEAKERS
« Reply #119 on: 10 Aug 2017, 11:08 am »
Hi James

I purchased the Active Middle T's recently.

I followed your suggestion and I moved the active Middle Ts a little bit wider apart, so now the speakers are almost 2.5 meters far from each other.

Wow...! I understand the importance of off axis response, as the soundstage is bigger, even more realistic while the center focus is still fantastic.

I continue to be amazed how much control at low frequencies and how similar to real life the musical reproduction is listening to active Middle Ts. The coherence is so perfect the speakers actually disappear.

Thanks.