Alfa Romeo Giulia

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roscoe65

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Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #20 on: 16 Apr 2017, 11:28 pm »
My last gf worked for a Porsche racing team and sold Porsche/MB parts online. Prices are unbelievable... the cost of owning a German car is a real turn off imo.

The Giulia Quadwhatever runs a Ferrari derived motor pushing 34 psi of boost, if one of those motors made it to 100k miles without using a quart of oil every couple hundred miles I'd be shocked, and I'd bet most won't get near 100k miles. It does seem like a great car to lease for a few years though...  :lol:

European cars in general - from VW to Porsche - have become good cars to lease but not good cars to buy.  In fact, the current thinking is that if you can' afford a new European car you can't afford a used one.  Two factors contribute to this:  especially in the German Marques, the remarkable engineering also tends to be remarkably complicated.  A lot of parts are model-specific, and replacing a normal wear part can be more complicated that it is on a Japanese car.  And yes, these parts can be very expensive, as I can attest from the VW's and BMW's I have owned.  Another factor is that many of these engines have very high specific output.  Audi's 2.5t engine makes 400 turbocharged horsepower, and as Dave indicated we are unlikely to see 300,000 miles on one these.  My Subaru will do that easily (with a head gasket or two).

My personal experience is that ownership of a marquee brand European car is death by a thousand cuts.  As the warrantee period runs down you will be bombarded by nuisance maintenance issues (switchgear, electronics, lighting seatbelts, latches, etc.) that will grind you down.

I live in a well off area and I see a lot of Maserati's around.  My prediction is that when these go off-lease they will find their way into the same market as preowned MB and BMW models.  People who couldn't afford a Maserati new (but want to look like they can) are going to buy one with 50 or 60 thousand miles on it for $25k and drive it until the maintenance headaches begin.

JLM

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Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #21 on: 16 Apr 2017, 11:52 pm »
Even my '09 Outback is nickel and diming me compared to my '12 Camry.  Both have roughly 150,000 miles, but the Subaru has racked up $11,900 in total maintenance cost compared to less than $2,700 for the Camry.  I've had to give up on the Subaru dealer (expensive, couldn't fix simple stuff, and were trying to tell me I needed to fix stuff that wasn't broken).  Fortunately out here in nowhere I found a good mechanic that likes Subaru cars. 

Body hardware has been a repeated issue for the Outback (gas cap release handle, trunk lid handle, rear wiper, ignition key and the batteries).  Rear brakes have been replaced twice.  Traction control, front control arm bushings, ignition coil, spark plug wires, rear wheel bearings, and numerous headlights have all been replaced.

But an axle seal and tires are the only non-scheduled maintenance the Camry has needed.

viggen

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #22 on: 16 Apr 2017, 11:55 pm »
chrysler will add value to italian imports by making the italian cars less fun to drive as well as adding a big gulp cup holder to suit north american market.

Folsom

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #23 on: 17 Apr 2017, 12:23 am »
European cars in general - from VW to Porsche - have become good cars to lease but not good cars to buy.  In fact, the current thinking is that if you can' afford a new European car you can't afford a used one.  Two factors contribute to this:  especially in the German Marques, the remarkable engineering also tends to be remarkably complicated.  A lot of parts are model-specific, and replacing a normal wear part can be more complicated that it is on a Japanese car.  And yes, these parts can be very expensive, as I can attest from the VW's and BMW's I have owned.  Another factor is that many of these engines have very high specific output.  Audi's 2.5t engine makes 400 turbocharged horsepower, and as Dave indicated we are unlikely to see 300,000 miles on one these.  My Subaru will do that easily (with a head gasket or two).

My personal experience is that ownership of a marquee brand European car is death by a thousand cuts.  As the warrantee period runs down you will be bombarded by nuisance maintenance issues (switchgear, electronics, lighting seatbelts, latches, etc.) that will grind you down.

I live in a well off area and I see a lot of Maserati's around.  My prediction is that when these go off-lease they will find their way into the same market as preowned MB and BMW models.  People who couldn't afford a Maserati new (but want to look like they can) are going to buy one with 50 or 60 thousand miles on it for $25k and drive it until the maintenance headaches begin.

These are reasons why buy the higher end models are burdens. A BMW 3 series will have a 2.5 engine at 230hp, instead of 400hp. Not a big deal. The parts are all refined handy downs. It's utterly unfair to group the highly reliable BMW's with any MB. The only MB worth owning for daily use is their work van.

I see people driving around old used and done for luxury cars that are thug like. But they are always the higher end models and falling apart. But the BMW 1-3 are passed on to kids or such and driven into oblivion with really high mileage before they meet a final fate in an accident or 350k miles.

SoCalWJS

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #24 on: 17 Apr 2017, 12:35 am »
Even my '09 Outback is nickel and diming me compared to my '12 Camry.  Both have roughly 150,000 miles, but the Subaru has racked up $11,900 in total maintenance cost compared to less than $2,700 for the Camry. I've had to give up on the Subaru dealer (expensive, couldn't fix simple stuff, and were trying to tell me I needed to fix stuff that wasn't broken).  Fortunately out here in nowhere I found a good mechanic that likes Subaru cars. 

Body hardware has been a repeated issue for the Outback (gas cap release handle, trunk lid handle, rear wiper, ignition key and the batteries).  Rear brakes have been replaced twice.  Traction control, front control arm bushings, ignition coil, spark plug wires, rear wheel bearings, and numerous headlights have all been replaced.

But an axle seal and tires are the only non-scheduled maintenance the Camry has needed.
Was my exact same experience with the Subaru Dealer I bought my WRX from several years back. I'd take it in for scheduled service that was included with the purchase, but when I went in to pick it up, something would be broken. They claimed that I brought it in broken and the arguing began (first time it was the rear view mirror. It was cracked and the coating was blacking out half the mirror [day/night magic stuff]) and it took several discussions before they reluctantly agreed to replace it. Happened again when I brought it in and they said it was time to replace the cabin filter - they badly scratched up the center console while replacing it. Looked like a screwdriver went about 1" across the lower corner of the panel. They refused to acknowledge it was their fault. I later learned that this dealership was famous for doing this.

This is why I traded my beloved WRX in for what became my Wife's Maxima. Find a great Dealer and buy your cars from them or have a good Mechanic lined up.

thunderbrick

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Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #25 on: 17 Apr 2017, 01:19 am »
.....But the BMW 1-3 are passed on to kids or such and driven into oblivion with really high mileage before they meet a final fate in an accident or 350k miles.

Yep, that's been our experience!   :thumb:

Folsom

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #26 on: 17 Apr 2017, 03:27 am »
Was my exact same experience with the Subaru Dealer I bought my WRX from several years back. I'd take it in for scheduled service that was included with the purchase, but when I went in to pick it up, something would be broken. They claimed that I brought it in broken and the arguing began (first time it was the rear view mirror. It was cracked and the coating was blacking out half the mirror [day/night magic stuff]) and it took several discussions before they reluctantly agreed to replace it. Happened again when I brought it in and they said it was time to replace the cabin filter - they badly scratched up the center console while replacing it. Looked like a screwdriver went about 1" across the lower corner of the panel. They refused to acknowledge it was their fault. I later learned that this dealership was famous for doing this.

This is why I traded my beloved WRX in for what became my Wife's Maxima. Find a great Dealer and buy your cars from them or have a good Mechanic lined up.

Brutal. Fuck them.

You bring up a very good point however, your dealer in the area should be looked up because a warranty is worthless if you can't use it. That's as much as considerations as the car itself depending on the age and package you're getting.

Johnny2Bad

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #27 on: 17 Apr 2017, 04:20 am »
I'm sure the Gulia would be a fun car to own and drive, to a point. That point would be coming up against FIAT's deplorable reliability record.

charmerci

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #28 on: 26 Apr 2017, 04:15 pm »
Alfa Romeo of today sure isn't FIAT of the 70's!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWBGGo6cXIk


You can see where the car manufacturing jobs are going.... away. Cool video though.

ehider

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #29 on: 26 Apr 2017, 08:22 pm »
I think there is a point to be considered whenever anyone is looking at a "Hyper horsepower 4 Door sedan" with extreme limits and amazing sports car like capabilities here ;

This could be anything from a a Cadillac CTV or a BMW M or an Audi S or the Alpha. They all can have VERY expensive repairs surrounding the specialized limited production run components that were made as the design teams don't consider the same exposure to everyday miles as the regular production car parts. Hence, the companies won't find out if the "Uber sedan" they created is truly reliable as compared to the base line model the vehicle is based on fir many years (and many miles) after they release the design on the public sector.

As a side note - I spent a decade inside these companies selling them both manufacturing systems and sourcing/designing custom production parts for them. Just as many of the posters here have indicated here, Japanese vehicles are typically designed with more reliability. The whole concept of continuous improvement runs deep within that culture's manufacturing of cars! Some of those "lessons learned" have been carried to other car manufacturers mind you. But the gathered statistics of cars running reliably over 200,000 + miles is still a flag carried by more of the Asian designs. The statistical analysis and reporting proves this out entirely.

As to the Alpha, you'd wonder where I stand since I am not really expecting it to be up to other manufacturer's reliability with a higher cost of repair as well? That said.  it is on my very "short list" to purchase once these are a few years old and being resold. Reliability at times will probably be a nightmare at time but the cost savings of more than $30K off the new price will be factored in and cover those costs to a point (in my mind). And my answer?

This is the very first 4 door Ferrari (IMHO) that drives better than any other 4 door car near it's price. It's a friggin Ferrari through and through that I actually can afford! :thumb:

restrav

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #30 on: 26 Apr 2017, 09:35 pm »
stay away from alfas they are the worst. other than Ferrari which is Ferrari, stay away from anything fiat or chrysler for that matter. watch videos where they show how alfas have common parts with cheap Fiat and chrysler models.

Philistine

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #31 on: 26 Apr 2017, 10:07 pm »
Anyone in the market for a car like this isn't typically going to be too concerned about repair costs and longevity, they're going to keep it while it while it's under warranty and then move on, or they're going to lease it.  I have a foot in the cheap ass camp with a Toyota and a couple of BMW's, one of the BMW's, 2006 330xi, is a keeper, the other, 2015 M235x is the one that gets turned over for another fun car when the warranty expires...The Alpha is on the test drive list.

restrav

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #32 on: 26 Apr 2017, 10:28 pm »
actually that was my second point, someone who pay that much money will be really bummed when he or she sees that the window up/down buttons or door hanfdles are the same as a crappy chrysler. Also cost of maintance is one thing, the time and the inconvenience is another

Emil

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #33 on: 26 Apr 2017, 11:12 pm »
Anyone in the market for a car like this isn't typically going to be too concerned about repair costs and longevity, they're going to keep it while it while it's under warranty and then move on, or they're going to lease it

True. But then being under warranty is if little consolation when you're on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck.

Folsom

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #34 on: 26 Apr 2017, 11:27 pm »
I don't agree. I'm appalled by the idea of paying a lot more money to get a turd. Now if the performance was that of a Formula 1, then I'd know the wear and tear was to be expected because everything operates on margins. But these cars have never seen margins let alone need to operate like they have them.

charmerci

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #35 on: 27 Apr 2017, 12:15 am »
stay away from alfas they are the worst. other than Ferrari which is Ferrari, stay away from anything fiat or chrysler for that matter. watch videos where they show how alfas have common parts with cheap Fiat and chrysler models.


Did you watch the video? Sure doesn't look like that's true in this case.

restrav

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #36 on: 27 Apr 2017, 01:59 am »
I have had encounter with alfas and alfa owners on multiple occasions throuout the years but have never owned and also have not seen this particular one. The 4C made waves and everyone loved it but also a friend of mine who owns one told me that he loves how it drives but it is a pain. anyway yes maybe this new 2017 model has none of the issues. when dealing with car companies though history is the only thing you have to go by. I think the video that mentioned the parts shared was from KBB and for the 2015 or 2016 alfa quadrifoglio. my point was about Fiat in general not a particular model. From quality to costumer service I adviuse staying away from Fiat affiliated.

DaveC113

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Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #37 on: 27 Apr 2017, 05:36 pm »
I think there is a point to be considered whenever anyone is looking at a "Hyper horsepower 4 Door sedan" with extreme limits and amazing sports car like capabilities here ;

This could be anything from a a Cadillac CTV or a BMW M or an Audi S or the Alpha. They all can have VERY expensive repairs surrounding the specialized limited production run components that were made as the design teams don't consider the same exposure to everyday miles as the regular production car parts. Hence, the companies won't find out if the "Uber sedan" they created is truly reliable as compared to the base line model the vehicle is based on fir many years (and many miles) after they release the design on the public sector.

As a side note - I spent a decade inside these companies selling them both manufacturing systems and sourcing/designing custom production parts for them. Just as many of the posters here have indicated here, Japanese vehicles are typically designed with more reliability. The whole concept of continuous improvement runs deep within that culture's manufacturing of cars! Some of those "lessons learned" have been carried to other car manufacturers mind you. But the gathered statistics of cars running reliably over 200,000 + miles is still a flag carried by more of the Asian designs. The statistical analysis and reporting proves this out entirely.

As to the Alpha, you'd wonder where I stand since I am not really expecting it to be up to other manufacturer's reliability with a higher cost of repair as well? That said.  it is on my very "short list" to purchase once these are a few years old and being resold. Reliability at times will probably be a nightmare at time but the cost savings of more than $30K off the new price will be factored in and cover those costs to a point (in my mind). And my answer?

This is the very first 4 door Ferrari (IMHO) that drives better than any other 4 door car near it's price. It's a friggin Ferrari through and through that I actually can afford! :thumb:

The longevity of the motor will probably vary quite a bit depending on driving habits, this is the last car I'd want to buy used... Unless there's some all new piston ring design/material I'm unaware of that is a quantum leap over conventional, a motor running 34 psi boost on pump gas isn't going to last that long before it starts using lots of oil.

rpf

Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #38 on: 27 Apr 2017, 06:29 pm »
Alfa Romeo of today sure isn't FIAT of the 70's!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWBGGo6cXIk


You can see where the car manufacturing jobs are going.... away. Cool video though.

Great vid!

And puts the lie to all the manufacturing jobs "coming back".

thunderbrick

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Re: Alfa Romeo Giulia
« Reply #39 on: 27 Apr 2017, 06:57 pm »
Sure does!    :duh: