[jtwrace]

Curious what JBL says about breakin if any? Are you gonna give them a few days to settle in before measure?

I see nothing in the manual about that but I'm going to let them play 1,000 hrs until I listen to them.   

[jtwrace]

Interesting to read you in particular say that, considering your long-standing position on objective differences and measures as a priority in evaluating potential equipment choices.

Maybe (I hope!) your new M2 will give you reason to pursue this further, as a matter of clear necessity in continuing to improve your system.  Considering the woofers in the M2 have to play up as high as they do, I would likely put them categorically in the fast camp out of functional necessity (and probably expertly so, considering they themselves have to keep up with a finely tuned horn loaded compression driver). 

As a hobbyist, I think that although it may be a sad day for your wallet, it will be an exciting one to have uncovered a new opportunity for increased performance of the system when the overhang of notes played by the subs (no matter how even and controlled throughout the room those notes are by way of bass management techniques - driver cones not stopping are still driver cones not stopping, even if they are doing so evenly) are noticeable enough compared to the notes coming from the mains to make it both obvious and (as a hobbyist) frustrating enough to make another system upgrade a necessity.

You can't really measure "fast" or "slow" subs.  If you haven't had the pleasure of hearing a multiple sub setup you can't imagine what I mean.  The measurements of the room don't lie.  It's either right or not and the speed of the driver isn't really something that you see. 


If you want to see sub driver measurements that matter check out http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=home  AC member "Poseidonsvoice" turned me onto the site and spent quite a bit of time with me explaining it all.  I'm sure he will see this and chime in. 

[zybar]

I see nothing in the manual about that but I'm going to let them play 1,000 hrs until I listen to them.   

1000 hours?  As in 41+ days playing 24 hrs a day?

Seems quite excessive....

George

[AJinFLA]

I see nothing in the manual about that but I'm going to let them play 1,000 hrs until I listen to them.   

Oh that breakin. Yes, I also recommend 1000 hrs minimum on my speakers as well.
The money back return period is 999 hrs.

[macrojack]

1000 hours?  As in 41+ days playing 24 hrs a day?

Seems quite excessive....

George

Not excessive, George. Thorough is a better way to characterize it. Jason never replaces anything before he completes break-in. An hour after that he is selling. Doesn't like to get too attached.

[jtwrace]

Oh that breakin. Yes, I also recommend 1000 hrs minimum on my speakers as well.
The money back return period is 999 hrs.

[jtwrace]

I'll post it here by the off chance that someone does buy the DCi and M2 combo.  The M2's are bi-wired and there's a lot going on with this setup in terms of wires.  It would be really easy to swap a wire and put it in the wrong place and either have a big oops or wonder what the heck is going on with the sound.  To mitigate this I have put labels on my DCi from the get-go while waiting for my M2's to make it really easy not only now but down the road when time goes by and you no longer remember.  Seems like an obvious thing but perhaps not.  Just sharing my journey should you embark on it too.   


 

[Jonathon Janusz]

The D2 is a different animal altogether because of the annular diaphragm.  This allows the using of a better diaphragm geometry which is able to move the breakup much higher.

This, along with the choice if materials used in the D2, and how that appears roughly similar to drivers made by BMS (which I HAVE heard) is exactly why I asked for an opinion from anyone who has heard both; are they in a similar "family" of sound, and how does that different geometry set the D2 apart in listening.

I would rather this thread not get pulled off by modified and DIY efforts to change and 'improve' the design.  If people want to consider those options then that info is already available elsewhere.

I'm sorry if a few of my questions came off this way.  I personally am in no position to DIY anything (or anything of any significant quality anyway), so my interest is in comparing off the shelf complete products.  Because right now I don't see the opportunity to go to an audio show or JBL directly in the near future, I'm relying on the kindness of others (and a collective of opinions) to decide whether the adventure is close enough to my general preferences to warrant putting some money down and giving it all a shot. 

As I don't use a pro-style setup in my home right now, a bit more has to change than just swapping out a pair of speakers if I were to give this sort of thing a shot (Windows computer, network infrastructure in room, power outlets depending on powered or non-powered cabinets, maybe a DAC change...)

while not proven there is alot to suggest the D2 is made by BMS.
others have come from there.

rabbit, thanks for that, but I guess my question wasn't so much where the D2 driver was made relative to BMS, but rather how does it SOUND compared to a comparable model BMS compression driver.  It looks to me like the two walk different paths in a similar enough direction that I'm trying to get a feel for what the D2 sounds like without the luxury of being able to jump in a car or plane and hear one myself.  I guess I'm just trying to get at least a rough point of reference.

Thanks!

[Jonathon Janusz]

Sorry that I'll take this a little out of order.

If you haven't had the pleasure of hearing a multiple sub setup you can't imagine what I mean.

Completely aside from show conditions, I have, in my own room, for an extended period of time, with multiple configurations of subs, measurements and all. ().

You can't really measure "fast" or "slow" subs.

Without straying too far off topic, I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.  When I interpret subs as "fast" or "slow" in a measured sense, I'm talking fundamentally about driver cone motion as a function of producing (or not producing) sound; acceleration from rest to wave launch and acceleration the other way from (intended) sound output to rest.  On a completely different front, add to that possible port resonances, horn colorations, backwave output through the cone, and so on contributing to "unwanted" sounds being generated collectively perceptionally "slowing" or muddying the sound output from any given sub...

The measurements of the room don't lie.  It's either right or not...

Agreed, but maybe my thoughts on "fast" or "slow" subs regarding what I posted earlier were in reference to the subs themselves individually rather than a summation of in-room measurements.  Improve the pieces to improve the whole, kind of thing?  Also, maybe picking nits (but what really in audio at this level isn't), but "even", "consistent", and "right" can often be very different things.

... and the speed of the driver isn't really something that you see.

Physically seen while watching the sub while playing relevant to the changes in sound differentiating a "fast" or "slow" sub for the purposes of my thoughts as posted on the matter? Assuming at least a baseline of quality in a sub being questioned, maybe or maybe not.  Seen in a measurement? Sure.  At the extremes (say, comparing the best-of-the-best with the very good with the not-so-great) not only seen but heard in room.

If you want to see sub driver measurements that matter check out http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=home  AC member "Poseidonsvoice" turned me onto the site and spent quite a bit of time with me explaining it all.  I'm sure he will see this and chime in.

Thanks; I've been there reading too, also thanks to the kind soul mentioned above.  At the end of the day, if you can get your rig configured such that it measures where it needs to for the things that matter to you, and that results in sound that checks all the boxes that matter most to you, and you've got everything you can out of the gear and room you have (or leave you at least for a while not wanting for anything more), awesome!  My thought was just a little hope that at the end of this major change to your system (from the perspective of a hobbyist) you have something new to be excited about uncovering the rabbit hole as being able to go a little deeper. 


Also, thanks for your posts regarding setup and configuration of your M2 system.  If I were to go for it myself in some capacity, I would likely take the configuration route of passive rather than active cabinets for a few room/situational reasons on my end.  As I haven't really used pro gear at home for anything, it is good to have a picture book-style guide on what is I think a subject assumed as common knowledge among people who would be using this kind of gear in the first place, which hobbyists moving pro/custom installer type setups into personal living spaces is likely not to be the case.  Thanks again!

[jtwrace]

Who doesn't like pictures?   


The Crown GUI while playing a signal.


 

[Folsom]

I'm all about pics.

I don't know if subwoofers are slow or fast, but they sure as hell sound different just like speakers and their amps.

[jtwrace]

I'm all about pics.

I don't know if subwoofers are slow or fast, but they sure as hell sound different just like speakers and their amps.

haha.  Well, if the Funk 21.0LX's can't do it I've got bigger issues.  In all honestly, they should be are the best subs I've ever owned by far based on the data-bass measurements.  They're definitely the most expensive by factor of oh never mind.   

[Jonathon Janusz]

So... after getting sidetracked a bit, I just checked out Funk Audio's website...

 

Playing in that ballpark, I'm pretty sure anything else would really end up a lateral move to taste or personal preference rather than a revolutionary objective improvement... and performance aside, they look like they make some really pretty cabinets!

Carry on, sir. 

[Folsom]

You're getting to that point where things damn well better perform

Do the M2 have an auto calibration in the software if you want (or need) ? It's nice that you can set bass levels from them where ever the room needs, since with passive speakers the crossover could be right or wrong depending on the size of the room.

[jtwrace]

You're getting to that point where things damn well better perform

Do the M2 have an auto calibration in the software if you want (or need) ? It's nice that you can set bass levels from them where ever the room needs, since with passive speakers the crossover could be right or wrong depending on the size of the room.

The amp doesn't have auto calibration.  You can read about the amp here though.  I will say that it might look intimidating at first but after a few looks and reading it really does make sense.  I mean, it literally took me 20 min at most to configure it all including updating the firmware (click of a button on the GUI).  If I can do it, anyone can as long they're willing to read and be patient. 

[jtwrace]

So... after getting sidetracked a bit, I just checked out Funk Audio's website...

 

Playing in that ballpark, I'm pretty sure anything else would really end up a lateral move to taste or personal preference rather than a revolutionary objective improvement... and performance aside, they look like they make some really pretty cabinets!

Carry on, sir. 

Ha!  Thanks.  I'm still a little sore but I'm impressed on every level of them so far.  The GUI for the web based DSP is nothing short of spectacular from everything I've seen so far.  My cabinets are going to be very simple though as I'm not into the audio furniture.  Basic black texture for me.   


The driver is the Funk Audio UH21V1 if you have any interest in reading about it. 

[David C]

Jason
How do
they sound. Would love to read a critique of your initial reactions

[jtwrace]

How do they sound. Would love to read a critique of your initial reactions

I think the initial post pretty much says it all since I purchased them.     There's nothing that I can say other than what I have.     They're that good!  I'm trying to think of what I'd buy instead at any price and there's nothing that comes to mind.  Add subs and measurements and I'm good in the equipment department.  The reality is that I never would've changed from what I had (GedLee Abbeys) if my life didn't take a turn but I needed to reduce my tonnage to move.  Now that's behind me I can move on to what I think is evolution and something quite frankly I never thought was attainable. 

[jtwrace]

I think the initial post pretty much says it all since I purchased them.     There's nothing that I can say other than what I have.     They're that good!  I'm trying to think of what I'd buy instead at any price and there's nothing that comes to mind.  Add subs and measurements and I'm good in the equipment department.  The reality is that I never would've changed from what I had (GedLee Abbeys) if my life didn't take a turn but I needed to reduce my tonnage to move.  Now that's behind me I can move on to what I think is evolution and something quite frankly I never thought was attainable.

If there's one dislike, it would be that I'm not able to turn them off and they keep me up waaay too late.   I seriously need to do a better job at going to

[rockadanny]

Congrats Jason! 
A very telling sign, them keeping you up, that you really are enjoying them.