My Harman (JBL M2) Trip

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poseidonsvoice

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Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #360 on: 23 Jun 2017, 08:14 pm »
Is Funk a radially magnetized neo motor like (Aura) or traditional steel shunt gap?

All their motors use neodymium. The actual design changes depending on the driver and size we are discussing. For example the UH21V1 in the Funk 21.0LX is an underhung motor and the magnet is a segmented neodymium ring that is 9 inches in diameter. Email Nathan directly or look up Harbottle Audio where he sells to DIY'ers and describes in more detail.

The Aura 18 is an awesome woofer as well. Trades off sensitivity for deeper bass. Excellent measurements on data-bass.com; But my choice for "value", deeper bass response but lower sensitivity is Dayton Audio UM18.

Now we are digressing...back to topic. Back to the M2's...see you tomorrow!

Best,
Anand.

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #361 on: 24 Jun 2017, 12:08 am »
Although I do feel like a part time IT guy with all the stuff going I actually somewhat enjoy it and have learned a TON about it all.  There's pretty much nothing I can't do with my NAS or network at this point but again it's not required for great sound.

This, I think, is the core of how this is a 'whole new world' to the average audiophile.  This is also a part of why I am conflicted as to going down this particular rabbit hole.  I know that a system like this can be built to perform, but I spend 12+ hours every day dealing with IT stuff; I'm just not sure I would find the same enjoyment as you in creeping it even further into my stereo (admittedly more than it already has to be) when I get home.  I've been Windows free at home for more years now than I can remember, and of course Harman's control software doesn't run natively in Linux or on a Mac...

I'm sorry I haven't dug deep enough into the documentation for it, but does the Crown amp have enough hardware and software guts built in to remove a D-A conversion from the chain, cutting the Mytek out, and doing everything digitally from the NAS all the way to the final amp output on the Crown?  If so, did you decide to keep the Mytek in play because it adds something special to the recipe that the Crown didn't deliver on its own sonically, or was there some other practical reason to keep the Mytek in the chain? 

DS-21

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Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #362 on: 24 Jun 2017, 07:09 am »
"Can you just run these M2s with a regular 2 channel or 4 channel amp or do you have to use the dsp amps with the software for speaker adjustment?"
Short answer yes.

Applicable answer.... for 2 channel youd have to design a crossover, you'll need a calibrated microphone and tons of experience, and even more patients. 4 channel can be done much easier with equipment Anand has pointed out.

Accurate answer: yes, with a BSS processor, or the new JBL Intonato24.

studley

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Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #363 on: 9 Oct 2017, 09:51 am »
Accurate answer: yes, with a BSS processor, or the new JBL Intonato24.

Other non-Harman DDP solutions are available!   ;)

jtwrace

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #364 on: 22 Nov 2017, 11:43 pm »
So far I'm really enjoying my new dac.   :green:

richidoo

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #365 on: 23 Nov 2017, 01:03 am »
Which is what, pray tell?

Still enjoying the speakers/amps too, I assume?

TomS

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #366 on: 23 Nov 2017, 01:03 am »
So far I'm really enjoying my new dac.   :green:
Indeed  :green:

jtwrace

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #367 on: 23 Nov 2017, 01:29 am »
Which is what, pray tell?

Still enjoying the speakers/amps too, I assume?
I seriously went off the deep end.  PS Audio DirectStream with Bridge II.  Never ever thought I'd own any PSA gear but here I am.   :o

richidoo

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #368 on: 23 Nov 2017, 01:38 am »
Yeah, I've heard that, excellent DAC!  :thumb:

jtwrace

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #369 on: 23 Nov 2017, 02:08 am »
Yeah, I've heard that, excellent DAC!  :thumb:
As have I but never really gave it much attention given the marketing hype but I must say it's impressive.  Ted obviously knows what he's doing and PSA has great engineers and industrial designers. 

poseidonsvoice

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Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #370 on: 23 Nov 2017, 02:37 am »
Does the Bridge II connect to your router or to the SOtm?

Best,
Anand.

TomS

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #371 on: 23 Nov 2017, 02:45 am »
Does the Bridge II connect to your router or to the SOtm?

Best,
Anand.
Bridge II is ethernet cable in. You don't need anything else, Roon Ready.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #372 on: 23 Nov 2017, 02:50 am »
Bridge II is ethernet cable in. You don't need anything else, Roon Ready.

Looks like you got a pair M2’s as well!  :thumb:

Best,
Anand.

jtwrace

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #373 on: 23 Nov 2017, 02:52 am »
Bridge II is ethernet cable in. You don't need anything else, Roon Ready.
Spotify and MQA coming end of next week too.  Not that I care but it will be there for those that do. 

poseidonsvoice

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Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #374 on: 23 Nov 2017, 12:22 pm »
Yeah, I've heard that, excellent DAC!  :thumb:

It has a passive transformer coupled output stage  :thumb:

One master clock, not multiple clocks. Simpler digital architecture.



Best,
Anand.

jtwrace

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #375 on: 24 Dec 2017, 03:26 am »
Yeah well Ted Smith is no slouch and it sounds incredible.  It's really something that I wasn't expecting!  Nice to have an all in one box too from Ethernet to output.  Couldn't be happier! 

jtwrace

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #376 on: 24 Dec 2017, 03:29 am »
Also important to note that the DS does upsample to 20x DSD as noted on their site since Huron.



http://www.psaudio.com/products/directstream-dac/#tab-features

 


 

richidoo

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #377 on: 15 Jan 2018, 06:34 pm »
I really enjoyed hearing Jason's M2s this past Saturday. Thanks Jason!

I found them to be extremely detailed and dynamic. You can hear everything. I heard things in a recording I've listened to for 40 years that I didn't hear before.

They play as loud as you want without distortion. To me they sound the same loud or soft. Turning them up does not increase the excitement as it does with speakers that benefit from increased cone speed.

Top to bottom, tone is superb. Very truthful, realistic, natural. Even low bass is well textured when the signal has something to offer, like organ. Reflex ports are relatively short and contoured, not straight pipe. Other brands that have this advanced porting are Ultima2 and KEF, which also have excellent clean bass.

Before listening, I was a little prejudiced against the professional electronics and I listened carefully for sonic flaws. I didn't hear any distinct distortion or any lack of refinement. I heard extreme damping and driver control, and absolute confidence and power bottom to top. I found it a little difficult to connect to the music emotionally compared to my own system, and maybe the amps had a hand in that. But I realize it's a professional tool, it's not a pleasure craft, so I can accept and appreciate it for what it is. I personally don't have a need or desire for the extreme detail the M2 offers, although I do like to indulge when the opportunity presents. For my own everyday system I like a little less detail so my attention is freer to roam and daydream in the mood of the music. I don't mean less resolution, I mean EQ in a more natural feeling FR that is more palatable for pleasure listening. But professional monitors are flat response and  they are designed to make it as easy as possible to concentrate on the work.

I was very impressed by the purity and beauty of the midbass/midrange region. Male vocals were just unbelievably great. Chris Isaac, Jim Messina, even Brian Bromberg (thanks BISL!) Crossover band is uncolored, you can't hear where it crosses at all, as expected, but IME of building several econowave type speakers it is not so easy to achieve. The steep minimum phase filters' phase rotation was not noticeable. The detail compensated for any lack of openness from the faster twist, and it's in a region that is less sensitive to phase than presence or midbass where crossover filters usually reside. A nice benefit of the larger horn.

The adjectives I would use to describe M2 are subtractive, like "dry" and "uncolored," although the dryness and uncoloredness are palpable. You really feel there's nothing else, you feel it because normal speakers are "there" while these aren't. It doesn't sound "detailed," the dryness is not a sound, it's an absence of any distortion or color, even the pleasant colors like magnetic hysteresis or paper cone flex, and in Jason's room, even room ambience is mostly damped. Even the reflex port sounds clean and dry as much as it can be. The detail you perceive is controlled by your own focus, free to look at an atom, or the whole earth. But the capacity for delivering information seems unlimited.

I played Felix Hell Organ Sensation pretty loudly, the track with the big loud low pedal tones. Liszt, I think, B.A.C.H. The low notes were very loud and very low, I could easily hear the V8 growl of the IMD on the low pedals, they were not melted down to sinewaves as usual. It was loud enough for Jason to lift his eyebrow, but nothing in the house was rattling, so it was clearly not loud enough. Maybe next time.

On solo violin, Julia Fischer Bach Preludes and Fugues on Pentatone, it is a beautiful recording. Back in my audiophile addict days I used to sometimes wish for a little more textural violin tone to come through on this awesome performance, and with the M2s I finally got it. The mix of the recording hasn't changed, but the insight the M2s provide allow me to focus on whatever aspect of the sound I'm interested in. I can choose to hear as much wood or steel or rosin as I chose, or back out and hear all three. The ease of mentally zooming in close and back out is really unique. The waveguide increases the acoustic impedance way beyond any 1" tweeter, so much more information can be put into the air. It really is amazing how much resolution our ears and brain are capable of, and equally amazing how much information is in 16/44.1 data. That track was very pretty and moving. I could have listened to that whole record.

But listening to pop tracks like EWF "In the Stone," Ferrell's "Bouncin Back," and even hard swinging Black and Tan Fantasy on Ellington at Newport I found it a little difficult to fall into the groove as easily as I can with these at home. I don't know why. But it got easier through the audition, so maybe require a human break in period to get used to them, to adjust my own mental listening filters so the information overflow can be ignored when not needed or wanted.  I'd be interested to hear from other M2 owners here about their emotional interaction with M2s, and did they need a couple dates to warm up to M2 before the first kiss?

Overall a wonderful, peak listening experience. New sensations, lots of new audio ideas to think about. M2 is an amazing technical achievement. I can't wait to hear them again. I'll be better prepared with tracks focused on answering all the questions that arose in this first taste. Thanks again Jason!
Rich

poseidonsvoice

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Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #378 on: 15 Jan 2018, 06:48 pm »
Rich,

Great review, you definitely have a gift for writing great prose. 

Sorry I couldn't be there...

There is not much to add as the M2's are really all you described.

Best,
Anand.

richidoo

Re: My Harman (JBL M2) Trip
« Reply #379 on: 15 Jan 2018, 07:39 pm »
Hey, thanks for reading the whole damn thing!
Hope to see you in march for g2g.