Spatial M3 Triode Master

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Wind Chaser

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #140 on: 16 Oct 2017, 04:35 pm »
There also is a better high end driver that is a dipole.  It is an improvement over the Turbo S.

What is it about this dipole driver that makes it better?

So far I haven't read anything compelling enough to make me want to go down that path. I ditched a wonderful SET because it didn't play nice with the Turbo load, and I doubt it would fair any better with the TM load.

The TMs and the Turbos have a 100Ω peak at 30Hz. That aspect alone pretty much rendered my SET useless in the bottom end, meaning very little bass.








jseymour

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #141 on: 16 Oct 2017, 06:27 pm »
The M3 TM high end driver has more detail and refinement than the Turbo S.  Its not a dramatic difference, but it can be heard.  The addition of it being dipole improved the sound stage.

The crossover has better components over the Turbo S.  The lowering of the crossover point from 800Hz  to 700Hz eases the load on the woofers with a subtle improvement in the bass.

I am driving my speakers with 2 Schiit Vidars, so I have plenty of low end with power to spare.

glynnw

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #142 on: 16 Oct 2017, 06:43 pm »
I had my M3TS upgraded to TM, mostly to get the new dipole driver and to mate the speakers better with my 16 Ohm friendly amps.  No huge improvement but overall a greater sense of ease, as if everything was working with less strain.  Better sound when not in sweetspot also a plus.  I recently purchased a First Watt J-2 to try and while I still prefer my Shindo overall, the First Watt definitely brought better bass.  Now I am wondering if there is a good way to bi-amp these speakers.  BTW, I heard the new Spatial Audio speakers at RMAF last week and they were in another league.  Now I have to wait a couple of years and then look for a used pair, because $10K is out of my range.

catluck

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #143 on: 2 Nov 2017, 02:43 pm »
New to the site.  Grateful for the many comments.  Running a pair of M3TM's (in M1 chassis).  Driving with Bel Canto 3.7 DAC and Ref 600's.  Started with M1's, then upgraded to the "better" dipole, then upgraded to the TM iteration. Originally amping with the BIG Psvane 845's (utterly amazing 50 watt 845 amps). But with original M1 configuration, upper frequencies MIA. Clayton suggested moving to SS.  This was heresy to a tube guy for the last 35 years.  While looking for SS gear to buy, I figured I'd try something light/cheap b/c the Psvane's just weren't "doing it."  Started with Musical Fidelity M1's (class D - $999 - 100 watts).  Thought I'd be underwhelmed, bored and disappointed. WRONG. I was actually astonished at the presentation.  Because the Psvane's weigh 100 lbs./each, I wondered, before upgrading the Spatials, if moving up the class D line might further improve the presentation. Bought a pair of Auralik Meraks.  Really fine sounding amps. More bloom, tonal density and far better upper frequency presence. In the meantime, I had the Spatials upgraded to where they are now the TM's.  All the while I was communicating with Clayton who was helpful and understanding of the issues.  In fact, I suspect that my early conversations with Clayton may have contributed to his decision to design the TM's inasmuch as we discussed my concerns over the lack of upper frequency detail when using tubes.   The Ref 600's sound so open, natural, and "right" that I'm wondering if I'll go back to tubes in this downstairs system.  I agree with the comments re: the dipole "tweeter" is a slightly more relaxed and slightly more refined driver when compared to the M27(?).  I never listen LOUD so it's possible that even after 150 hours or so, listening at no louder than 85dB, there is some break-in still required.  As I'm writing, listening to Illinois Jacquet "Birthday Party" and wondering if it's worth it to spend $1,000's more to buy the X2 (although I admit the tweeter in the X2 is more likely to provide the detail/texture that this M35 driver seems unable to provide).  Bottom line: I don't see myself returning to cones/domes in a box.  As I've aged I find the OB relaxed/open presentation preferable to boxes.  For those who haven't tried class D, remember that's how Clayton had been showing his products. And, again, this endorsement coming for a tubophile for over 3 decades. Who woulda' thought.  Grateful to have been able to read your messages and consider your thoughts. Take care all.

who?me?

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #144 on: 18 Nov 2017, 07:20 pm »
glynn,
what 16 ohm friendly amps did you try?

I have a pair of tubed monos, DIY, 40watt push/pull, AB.
they are set at 4 ohms and not driving the M3TMs very politely, but not adequately.
I can resolder my monos to 16 ohm, then will try them with the M3TMs, and see if it helps.
gary

I had my M3TS upgraded to TM, mostly to get the new dipole driver and to mate the speakers better with my 16 Ohm friendly amps.  No huge improvement but overall a greater sense of ease, as if everything was working with less strain.  Better sound when not in sweetspot also a plus.  I recently purchased a First Watt J-2 to try and while I still prefer my Shindo overall, the First Watt definitely brought better bass.  Now I am wondering if there is a good way to bi-amp these speakers.  BTW, I heard the new Spatial Audio speakers at RMAF last week and they were in another league.  Now I have to wait a couple of years and then look for a used pair, because $10K is out of my range.

glynnw

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #145 on: 18 Nov 2017, 09:51 pm »
Using Shindo Montille 6V6 which has 12-15 watts.  Also used a First Watt J-2 which probably had same output into 16 ohms.  But then, I use a pair of the GR Research OB subs. When I first got these speakers as standard Turbo S I compared the 16 ohm loving Shindo against the Red something or other  (I am getting old and my memory is sucko) amps with a jillion watts that Clayton uses at the show and still preferred the Shindo, so power isn't necessarily the answer for me.  Now I can play the system so loud my cat complains, and she is a head banger at heart.  I imagine there is a powerful amp that I would prefer to the Shindo, but doubt if I could afford it.

badaxe73

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #146 on: 16 Dec 2017, 03:20 pm »
I hooked up a restored Fisher 400 at 16ohm to the the triode masters. Wow what a difference from my classe solid state.
More depth and realism. It was an immediate difference in sound. :thumb:

drhoon

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #147 on: 23 Apr 2018, 09:16 pm »
Any kind owner in NYC willing to let me audition  :D

Thank you..

snovosel

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #148 on: 1 May 2018, 01:04 pm »
Makes sense to me, I maxed out on my funds for a stellar 2 channel amp with sub out (PL HP Integrated) with a Mullard front end. But would like to use the HT bypass for surround sound later this year.

But I did add a 250 watt Martin Logan 10" sub to my Triodes, sounds much better with bottom end filled out.
FYI, Clayton runs dual subs with his Triodes at home.


So it's been five months since I've had the TMs in play with a PrimaLuna HP running EL34s and I am beginning to see why others have had to implement a sub or even dual subs because I too am not getting a significant bottom-end experience (as I had hoped I would) despite spending far too much time experimenting with placement and/or 12AU7 rolling.  I upgraded to the TMs from the Turbo S.   As much as I liked the Turbo S presentation (and there were times when paired with select music it seemed magical) it still lacked what I would call depth or character of bass and so I bought into the claim that the TMs would offer a sonic improvement across all tonal areas but so far it's been a meh experience so much so that I am doing what I thought I wouldn't have to do (and what I definitely didn't want to do) after my initial TS purchase -- go back to the drawing board and start looking at/auditioning other speaker offerings.  I don't/didn't want to have to accessorize main speakers with additional boxes cluttering the floor/dealing with chain connectivity issues -- adding more instead of less complexity --  in order to experience the <37Hz measured results of the TM mains.  In a last ditch effort, I have spent an additional (unnecessary) $800+ for KT-150s to see if this will have any effect on the presentation. Fingers partially crossed.         

snovosel

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #149 on: 2 May 2018, 02:42 am »
Any kind owner in NYC willing to let me audition  :D

Thank you..


I am just off Exit 2 on the NJ Turnpike.  You are welcome to drop in anytime. 

vkohl

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #150 on: 27 Nov 2018, 06:13 am »
ANY ONE WANT TO ADDRESS THIS ?

So how do you expect people to take you serious? so you sound like you were really blown away buy these incredible cheap and terrible sounding speakers what a shame you have probably helped someone as clueless as you waste their money on bad sound. Did you not notice as soon as you saw the speakers in the M3 they were stamped frames??? That is a sign of cheap drivers but your a millennial so you don't know that. The M3 are a joke to be quite honest i feel sorry for anyone that likes the sound of the M3 due to having never heard good sound but don't assume what your hearing is good your not a Audiophile so give it up and admit you have terrible taste and zero knowledge about speakers & sound.

The compression drivers in the M3 are the cheapest worst sounding 1" compression drivers their are they are the K mart blue light drivers of the speaker world LMFAO. Ok the 15" coaxial is actually two different brands the 15" frame is a Eminence it is a Beta 12cx and it is $79.99 at u guessed it US speakers   http://www.usspeaker.com/beta12cx-1.htm It is a coaxial but takes a screw on 1" driver witch means you can use any 1" screw on driver you like you could even use a bolt on 1" driver with a screw on adapter.  Now this is were it gets really funny the 1" compression driver Spatial uses is one of the cheapest made it is a china made P-Audio BM-D440s and it is a whopping $79.95 at you guessed it US speaker http://www.usspeaker.com/paudio%20bmd440Sseries%20ii-1.htm

The lower 15" in the M3 is a Eminence Delta 12LFA and it is $79.00 at US speakers  http://www.usspeaker.com/Delta-12LFA-1.htm   So your talking about $490.00 in drivers for the M3 and that is our cost.  Spatial i am sure only have less than half that invested in each M3 after buying the drivers in bulk.  Your review for these terrible sounding speakers was just glowing really made me laugh. Out of all the 15" coaxial speakers there are you liked the cheapest worst sounding combo on the planet. a similar designed  Modified Altec Lansing 604's and 605's would embarrass these M3 and those Altec have been around since the 1940's as would a similar designed speaker using Radian 15" coaxial or Beyma, Faital Pro, B & C . With so many really really nice sounding  15" coaxial drivers available why would Spatial use inferior Eminence & P-Audio drivers. Well we all know the answer Spatial is buying the cheapest thing out their and selling them for way way way more than should ever be allowed.

JackD

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #151 on: 27 Nov 2018, 07:03 am »
And what is it you pretend to add to this thread, certainly not experience.

wushuliu

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #152 on: 27 Nov 2018, 07:23 am »
With so many really really nice sounding  15" coaxial drivers available why would Spatial use inferior Eminence & P-Audio drivers. Well we all know the answer Spatial is buying the cheapest thing out their and selling them for way way way more than should ever be allowed.

Although interesting info about the driver choices, Spatial Audio's pricing is right in line with typical audiophile retail prices. There are speakers of similar cost that use drivers that cost even less from companies like SB Acoustics, Peerless, Seas, etc. It's no secret that speaker costs are a combination of dealer markup, overhead, and enclosure design/shipping - not so much the drivers and crossover. Making slick looking frames/cabinets isn't cheap.


vkohl

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #153 on: 27 Nov 2018, 07:31 am »
Although interesting info about the driver choices, Spatial Audio's pricing is right in line with typical audiophile retail prices. There are speakers of similar cost that use drivers that cost even less from companies like SB Acoustics, Peerless, Seas, etc. It's no secret that speaker costs are a combination of dealer markup, overhead, and enclosure design/shipping - not so much the drivers and crossover. Making slick looking frames/cabinets isn't cheap.

WHAT CABINET ? ...I see barely more than ONE flat piece of wood !

Please enlighten everyone before I plunk down $10,000 for a pair of these SNAKE OIL sound makers !

vkohl

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #154 on: 27 Nov 2018, 07:39 am »
And what is it you pretend to add to this thread, certainly not experience.

Im adding REALITY ! ....I never believe snake oil barkers ....my motto is " QUESTION EVERYTHING" because its usually a LIE .... just like CNN for example.

...kinda like this : staged photo ops to appeal to the bleeding heart liberals ... WAKE UP TO THE PROPAGANDA YOUR BEING FED !



wushuliu

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #155 on: 27 Nov 2018, 07:40 am »
WHAT CABINET ? ...I see barely more than ONE flat piece of wood !

Please enlighten everyone before I plunk down $10,000 for a pair of these SNAKE OIL sound makers !

I already enlightened you. Those costs add up. It's a business, and employees have to get paid. If it looks so simple and cheap to you, then I can only assume you can build them yourself and with the same quality.

wushuliu

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #156 on: 27 Nov 2018, 07:45 am »
Im adding REALITY ! ....I never believe snake oil barkers ....my motto is " QUESTION EVERYTHING" because its usually a LIE .... just like CNN for example.

...kinda like this : staged photo ops to appeal to the bleeding heart liberals ... WAKE UP TO THE PROPAGANDA YOUR BEING FED !

Oh I see, you were just looking for an excuse to spout whatever kool-aid you're slurping off your social media feed. Next few months are gonna be rough for you. Better short that Facebook stock.

oskar

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #157 on: 27 Nov 2018, 02:36 pm »
"WAKE UP TO THE PROPAGANDA YOUR BEING FED!"

Ok got it and you have a nice day.

Tyson

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #158 on: 27 Nov 2018, 05:10 pm »
WHAT CABINET ? ...I see barely more than ONE flat piece of wood !

Please enlighten everyone before I plunk down $10,000 for a pair of these SNAKE OIL sound makers !

You know I thought the exact same thing when I bought a meal at a restaurant today.  YOU WANT ME TO PAY $16 for THIS!!!??? There's only like $2 worth of actual food here (rice, sauce, chicken).  The ENTIRE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY IS A LIE!!!!

QUESTION EVERYTHING!

[/sarcasm]

Wind Chaser

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #159 on: 27 Nov 2018, 07:29 pm »

So it's been five months since I've had the TMs in play with a PrimaLuna HP running EL34s and I am beginning to see why others have had to implement a sub or even dual subs because I too am not getting a significant bottom-end experience (as I had hoped I would) despite spending far too much time experimenting with placement and/or 12AU7 rolling.  I upgraded to the TMs from the Turbo S.   As much as I liked the Turbo S presentation (and there were times when paired with select music it seemed magical) it still lacked what I would call depth or character of bass and so I bought into the claim that the TMs would offer a sonic improvement across all tonal areas but so far it's been a meh experience so much so that I am doing what I thought I wouldn't have to do (and what I definitely didn't want to do) after my initial TS purchase -- go back to the drawing board and start looking at/auditioning other speaker offerings.  I don't/didn't want to have to accessorize main speakers with additional boxes cluttering the floor/dealing with chain connectivity issues -- adding more instead of less complexity --  in order to experience the <37Hz measured results of the TM mains.  In a last ditch effort, I have spent an additional (unnecessary) $800+ for KT-150s to see if this will have any effect on the presentation. Fingers partially crossed.       

The M3ts and the TM use the same 15” drivers. The quality and character of bass these drivers produce is largely determined by the amp driving them. If you have, or can borrow a SS amp, it will most likely surprise you in a way you would not have thought possible.   :o :P

OB bass is by nature different (superior IMO) to boxed bass. These speakers will produce very clean bass down to an honest 32 Hz, assuming they are in fact broken in, but they are best suited with an amp that can cope with the load, especially between 30 to 50 Hz.