[DaveC113]

Don't sell the 20A SurgeX, it's a really good unit. It provides the best surge protection on the market as well as a good EMI/RFI filter and it is very transparent, it works great with big amps too which isn't the case for many conditioners.

It's been covered but the 15/20A at the plug/receptacle side are the same except for geometry, what you risk is tripping your main breaker, it's not really a safety concern. If you're really worried about it the 20A circuit breaker in the SurgeX can easily and cheaply be replaced with a 15A unit.

I mod two of the SurgeX models, if you have any questions or want to improve the unit let me know, it can be improved quite a bit.

[FullRangeMan]

I mod two of the SurgeX models, if you have any questions or want to improve the unit let me know, it can be improved quite a bit.

Someone may say NEC dont allow it.

[danvprod]

So the next thing to address is the audible humming of the two transformers on my plate amp (60Hz). This is not audible through the speakers, but I can hear it in the amps. The speakers have a very faint hum and hiss if I get my ears really close to them (they are 97 dB efficient) and there is also a 60 Hz hum coming through the subwoofers. I was hoping the power conditioner would have addressed this, but any other ideas to attenuate these ground issues?

One thing I thought of is that if there is DC on my AC line, that would cause the toroid transformers to hum. The power foundation doesn't do anything with DC offset if its there.

We are talking about the last 2-3% here...

I also upgraded my speaker cables to a braided design, which should help deal with RF/EMI issues.


ETA I should mention that I can hear the transformers buzzing if I stick my ear up to them even with the power bypassed. These are the Rhythmik Audio DirectServo 370 amps for my GR Super Vs.

[FullRangeMan]

So the next thing to address is the audible humming of the two transformers on my plate amp (60Hz). This is not audible through the speakers, but I can hear it in the amps. The speakers have a very faint hum and hiss if I get my ears really close to them (they are 97 dB efficient) and there is also a 60 Hz hum coming through the subwoofers. I was hoping the power conditioner would have addressed this, but any other ideas to attenuate these ground issues?

One thing I thought of is that if there is DC on my AC line, that would cause the toroid transformers to hum. The power foundation doesn't do anything with DC offset if its there.

We are talking about the last 2-3% here...

I also upgraded my speaker cables to a braided design, which should help deal with RF/EMI issues.


ETA I should mention that I can hear the transformers buzzing if I stick my ear up to them even with the power bypassed. These are the Rhythmik Audio DirectServo 370 amps for my GR Super Vs.

For an transformer not hum under service it has to be really hi quality made and not run hard(under 40%) and the hiss seems came from the tweeter and xovers imo.

[jea48]

Someone may say NEC dont allow it.

Technically NEC stops at the wall receptacle and duplex cover plate.

Like many have said in this thread, cut off the 20 amp plug and replace it with a 15 amp plug. The duplex receptacles on the unit are 15 amp. If the OP decides to sell the unit at a later date just through in a 20 amp plug in the deal. Trust me the buyer will more than likely leave on the 15 amp plug.

[jea48]

danvprod,

Have you ever experimented with using different duplex cover plates, there in, steel,  plastic, flexible nylon, aluminum, non ferrous stainless steel, and listened for differences in sound from the audio system?

[Armaegis]

So the next thing to address is the audible humming of the two transformers on my plate amp (60Hz). This is not audible through the speakers, but I can hear it in the amps. The speakers have a very faint hum and hiss if I get my ears really close to them (they are 97 dB efficient) and there is also a 60 Hz hum coming through the subwoofers. I was hoping the power conditioner would have addressed this, but any other ideas to attenuate these ground issues?
One thing I thought of is that if there is DC on my AC line, that would cause the toroid transformers to hum. The power foundation doesn't do anything with DC offset if its there.

I also upgraded my speaker cables to a braided design, which should help deal with RF/EMI issues.

It's true that DC or other grunge is likely the culprit of transformer buzzing. Do you have anything on the circuit that might be generating that grunge? Dimmer switches and LED/CFL bulbs are a big culprit, but cheap wallwarts are also suspect. I just figured out the other day that my toaster oven creates buzz even when it's not turned on, merely plugged in (I'm guessing it's a horrible power supply for the digital panel).

Speaker cables do not really worry about EMI unless the cable happens to act as an antenna (which is bad in many ways). Do be aware that tight braids could potentially create higher capacitance, which is undesirable in a typical speaker able.

[danvprod]

re: items on circuit. I have a ceiling fan, which has a halogen light in it connected to a z-wave dimmer switch. I also have a lamp with a CFL bulb and that is about it. My computer is on another circuit on a UPS, as is my laser printer. It's regrettable that the ceiling fan is on the same circuit, but my hands are tied, unless I pull another circuit up to the attic where my listening room is. That circuit is much less noisy than the other one in the space (which I've put my computer on).

I've not yet tired swapping out receptacle covers.

My speaker cable is like this -- 6-conductor braided: http://www.electracable.com/speakercables.htm

Another idea I've thought about is adding an isolation transformer. There are the toroid corp 10 amp units like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/382039503947?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I suppose I should check the quality of my earth ground at my mains supply box as well.

[Armaegis]

Is there any difference in the buzzing if you shut off the fan/dimmer/lamp? What if you turn off and unplug the computer/printer?

Swapping the receptacle cover shouldn't do anything. Personally I just go with plastic covers for safety. I've seen fires start from receptacle covers falling off and shorting out on the plugs.

An isolation transformer will in theory remove the DC component from reaching your amp. However, there's a high likelihood that the isolation transformer will then be the one buzzing (but if it's sturdier and/or further away, then you may not notice it... and the protection it offers is nice too). The Emotiva CMX-2 is also a reasonably cheap DC blocker.

[werd]

That would be illegal. You can't put a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit.

 No such thing as illegal anymore. He can do anything he wants.

[werd]

Ditch the dynamics supressor. Chuck it out the car window going 60. Watch it surpress your dynamics no more! As it heads its way into the ditch blowing into a thousand pieces of ripoff.

[jea48]

Is there any difference in the buzzing if you shut off the fan/dimmer/lamp? What if you turn off and unplug the computer/printer?

Swapping the receptacle cover shouldn't do anything. Personally I just go with plastic covers for safety. I've seen fires start from receptacle covers falling off and shorting out on the plugs.

An isolation transformer will in theory remove the DC component from reaching your amp. However, there's a high likelihood that the isolation transformer will then be the one buzzing (but if it's sturdier and/or further away, then you may not notice it... and the protection it offers is nice too). The Emotiva CMX-2 is also a reasonably cheap DC blocker.

~ ~

Swapping the receptacle cover shouldn't do anything. Personally I just go with plastic covers for safety.

Not for a buzzing problem it won't.

It can have an impact on the SQ of an audio system though. For better or worse.

.

Note the date of the post. February 10,2006

My results with stainless steel outlet plate cover.

    Posted by Al Sekela (A) on February 10, 2006 at 09:53:28

    In Reply to: Al, my system is dead quite. posted by jea48 on February 8, 2006 at 14:49:09:

    I just finished a five-way comparison of outlet cover plates (on 2-gang metal box):

    1. no outlet plate (old standard);
    2. magnetic SS outlet plate with Nylon screws (verified not grounded with ohmmeter);
    3. same, but with one steel screw to ground it;
    4. same as 3. with magnets stuck to outside of plate;
    5. High-abuse Nylon plate with Nylon screws. Also tested with both 2-gang boxes covered with Nylon plates.

    Test CD was Shirley Horn, _You Won't Forget Me_, Verve 847 482-2.

    Numbers 1 and 5 were so close I decided to leave the Nylon plates in place.

    Number 2 gave an added sense of air and resonance, which led me to test the SS plate for acoustic ringing. It rings like a bell with a pure, sweet, high sustained tone, and a lot of atonal immediate crash like a cymbal. With this thing vibrating near the outlet and not grounded, it is acting like a dynamo and converting acoustic vibration into electrical noise within the power circuit and/or safety earth.

    Numbers 3 and 4 dulled the sound compared to number 1: not in the sense of lost treble, but in a lack of midrange presence. With my system tuned up, I can hear Shirley smile as she sings, "...should there be eyes like []yours..." near the beginning of track 12, "You Stepped Out of a Dream." This sense of a smile was diminished with treatments 3 and 4. The piano tone was also less appealing in general. Her voice seemed less cohesive over her range.

    Thus, my results are similar to yours with respect to grounded versus floating plates, but I believe the apparent improvement with the ungrounded plate is due to euphonic coloration rather than increased detail retrieval. You can confirm this by listening carefully with the ungrounded plate in place, and then with it removed. Other inmates have observed improved performance with no plate at all on the outlet, but clearly this is not safe for most people and violates code. In my case, anyone who approached the uncovered outlets would probably have died from tripping over the equipment and cables before reaching the outlets, so I was not concerned about the safety aspect. The Nylon plates' appearance matches the other outlets in the room, so I will leave them on.

https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/tweaks/127995/my-results-with-stainless-steel-outlet-plate-cover

Entire thread:
https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=tweaks&n=127735&highlight=Lower+cost+in-wall+AC+outlet+tweaking&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Dtweaks%26searchtext%3DLower%2Bcost%2Bin-wall%2BAC%2Boutlet%2Btweaking

Note:
In my new house the dedicated circuits for my audio equipment are 20 amp using #10-2 with ground NM-B cable. (Romex is a trade name of)
 Wall rough-in boxes are plastic.
Duplex receptacles, I am still using the cryoed Hubbell HBL 8300H from my old house.
Wall duplex cover plates are P&S non breakable nylon plates.

From my personal experience as well as others, a ferrous duplex cover plate will degrade the sound of your audio system.
.
 

[werd]

I guess that ignorance is bliss. There are no statute of limitations for electrical wiring. If you alter your home wiring, then do not have it inspected, then something happens (fire or someone's death) and it can be proven in a court of law, you are responsible.

I have been an electrical designer for some time, have passed many NFPA-79e courses (I sure without googling that, you wouldn't have a clue what it is) and have a copy of the NEC in my book case.

Show me one example of a fire or a death resulting from a 20amp duplex outlet fitted on a 15 amp circuit. Or a 20 amp male/female connect. Surely there must be? Show me one.

Guess what you cant because that won't cause a fire or death ... lol. Well it could if the person fires up a 20 amp power tool and leaves it running and goes shopping while the kids are asleep. lol

You make me laugh Wayner.

[jea48]

No such thing as illegal anymore. He can do anything he wants.

The NEC, National Electrical Code, does not have any legal standing what so ever to force anyone to comply with its' bare minimum electrical safety standards.

State, county, and Local, governing bodies on the other hand do. States can an do pass laws that adopt all or part of current NEC standards. Local AHJ, Authority Having Jurisdiction, also adopt part or all of current NEC standards and have the power through local ordinances, to enforce the ordinances, law. Some AHJ pass ordinances with even stricter standards than NEC. Through these ordinances, laws, in the event of personal injury, loss of life, fire, charges can be filed against those that violate the law. Because of the ordinances, laws, insurance companies can legally deny a claim if it is found the property owner was negligent. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 .

[Elizabeth]

Through these ordinances, laws, in the event of personal injury, loss of life, fire, charges can be filed against those that violate the law. Because of the ordinances, laws, insurance companies can legally deny a claim if it is found the property owner was negligent. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 .

Now have you or anyone seen a post of an audiophile bemoaning the fact his insurance refused to pay due to some failure of a powercord or modified component? Ever?
I have never read such a post. here, or in many other sites covering audiophile stuff.

So in effect your comment is a scare tactic.
Now if you can find genuine post of past comments by real audiophiles who actually were denied coverage FOR THESE REASONS (not other vague ones) I would be ever so glad to see the links...

[FullRangeMan]

No such thing as illegal anymore. He can do anything he wants.

    That would be illegal. You can't put a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit.

 No such thing as illegal anymore. He can do anything he wants.
The correct solution is educate the home user, silly codes, low grade outlets and cheap electricians will not help and will made it a mess.

[Wayner]

The NEC, National Electrical Code, does not have any legal standing what so ever to force anyone to comply with its' bare minimum electrical safety standards.

State, county, and Local, governing bodies on the other hand do. States can an do pass laws that adopt all or part of current NEC standards. Local AHJ, Authority Having Jurisdiction, also adopt part or all of current NEC standards and have the power through local ordinances, to enforce the ordinances, law. Some AHJ pass ordinances with even stricter standards than NEC. Through these ordinances, laws, in the event of personal injury, loss of life, fire, charges can be filed against those that violate the law. Because of the ordinances, laws, insurance companies can legally deny a claim if it is found the property owner was negligent. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 .

It's a code, not the electrical police force. However, I doubt that any public official or community would make a ruling that would contradict any of the codes, to do so would be just plain stupid. The NEC offers "alternative methods" to choose from.

[jea48]

Now have you or anyone seen a post of an audiophile bemoaning the fact his insurance refused to pay due to some failure of a powercord or modified component? Ever?
I have never read such a post. here, or in many other sites covering audiophile stuff.

So in effect your comment is a scare tactic.
Now if you can find genuine post of past comments by real audiophiles who actually were denied coverage FOR THESE REASONS (not other vague ones) I would be ever so glad to see the links...

Now have you or anyone seen a post of an audiophile bemoaning the fact his insurance refused to pay due to some failure of a powercord or modified component? Ever?

After market power cords or mods to audio equipment has absolutely nothing to do with the NEC.

[Wayner]

Well, lots of equipment has a UL label, and they might care. Your advice to people is pretty "out there" as you do not have a clue what would happen to "doctored" up equipment and a fire. Fire inspector will find the cause of the fire, and who knows where that would lead to.

You can do what ever you want in your home.

[jea48]

Well, lots of equipment has a UL label, and they might care. Your advice to people is pretty "out there" as you do not have a clue what would happen to "doctored" up equipment and a fire. Fire inspector will find the cause of the fire, and who knows where that would lead to.

You can do what ever you want in your home.

Wayne,

My comments were directed back to Elizabeth's response to mine regarding the NEC. My response to her is accurate in that regard.

As for your post I would agree with what you said about UL Listed products sold here in the US. One problem though, more and more Audio equipment being manufactured and sold here in the USA is not UL Listed. Some are not Listed by any recognized third party testing laboratory at all.

.