[jarcher]

So perhaps someone can explain this to me. I have a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC II with Bridge II customer trade in available for sale at over 70% off of the original retail price and 60% off of PS Audios clearance price, it has over 430 views on Audiogon over three weeks and over 230 on eBay with 24 watchers over one week, and despite all of that, I'm still not even getting an offer on it!

Question :  is the resell value that weak on PS audio DACs?   I have easily sold used past PSaudio Nuwave dacs in the past quick and no problem. And most these dacs move for about 50% off new retail. Something I'm missing here?

[S Clark]

Is there anything in stereo gear that has evolved faster than dacs over the last 6-7 years?  A great amp from 10 years ago is still a great amp.  Same for speakers.  A 10 year old dac is bordering on obsolete. 

[Rusty Jefferson]

It's because it's not a Directstream model.  People want the lastest.  Prices for used Directstream DACs have been very strong.  Consider doing the upgrade.  It would have been nice if PS had made that transition more friendly for existing owners of Perfect Wave.

[paul79]

Ya, but at that price, someone could buy it and have the upgrade done for a nice deal. I think it is more than DAC tech at play. I have items for sale that should be gone. Tax time is my guess.

[Phil A]

A 10 year old dac is bordering on obsolete.

So true - digital stuff just changes rapidly

[jarcher]

So here is the insane thing : it could be bought then traded in to PS Audio for a new DSD Directstream DAC for way more than I'm asking for it - ie $1399 vs $2k credit. The Bridge II is still current and can be moved over to the new DAC.

All I can think of is that people want to buy a used Directstream DAC for <$3k.

I agree about DACs improving exponentially - but this is kinda crazy. People don't even want to bid on a $4900 DAC for $1400 asking. And so many claim PS Audio dacs are so awesome.

[WGH]

Your ads are placed in all the wrong locations, unfortunately I don't know any good locations. Buyers at Audiogon already own at least one DAC of equal quality and eBay buyers never heard of a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC II (where do you insert the CD?). You also face competition from the plethora of those small USB stick DAC's that always get rave reviews.

I love the PS Audio PerfectWave sound and if I didn't already own an excellent DAC I would consider yours.
I didn't see your ad in the AC Trading Post. Put an ad in Craig's List too, it's free and ads in Craig's List has worked surprisingly well for me.

[Phil A]

So here is the insane thing : it could be bought then traded in to PS Audio for a new DSD Directstream DAC for way more than I'm asking for it - ie $1399 vs $2k credit. The Bridge II is still current and can be moved over to the new DAC.

The ad should specify that if true.  Yes, for digital stuff many, including myself, prefer to buy used.  I just bought a used DAC and am selling the old one.

[Rusty Jefferson]

It's crazy the upgrade kit for existing owners of PW is $3k. You can get a new Directstream for under $4k if you negotiate. That kit should be  $1.5k for original owners, and $2k for second hand owners to encourage people to stay in the family. 

Digital is the worst for loosing value. Changing too fast.  Consider calling some of the dealers and see if you can get that kit for a reasonable cost.

[Big Red Machine]

It's because it's not a Directstream model.  People want the lastest.  Prices for used Directstream DACs have been very strong.  Consider doing the upgrade.  It would have been nice if PS had made that transition more friendly for existing owners of Perfect Wave.

If it does not do DSD it will not sell well these days.

[johsti]

If it does not do DSD it will not sell well these days.

Schiit seems to be doing alright in the dac market.

I think the PWD Mk2 is a fantastic dac and a bargain at used prices.  I owned one several years ago, sold it, tried other dacs, and sold them all to buy another PWD mk2 which I still use daily.  It is still a division 2 dac on Darko's list which includes some more modern dac offerings.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/the-darko-dac-index/

jarcher - Have you considered selling the bridge separately?  You may be able to net a higher price if you sell the dac and bridge separately.

[WC]

Schiit seems to be doing alright in the dac market.

I think the PWD Mk2 is a fantastic dac and a bargain at used prices.  I owned one several years ago, sold it, tried other dacs, and sold them all to buy another PWD mk2 which I still use daily.  It is still a division 2 dac on Darko's list which includes some more modern dac offerings.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/the-darko-dac-index/

jarcher - Have you considered selling the bridge separately?  You may be able to net a higher price if you sell the dac and bridge separately.

Schiit most likely is selling a lot more low end DACs, the Modi's, than anything else. At the low end DSD doesn't matter very much. I personally don't have any DSD files, so if a DAC has DSD capability does not matter to me if selecting a DAC.

[jarcher]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I had some Chinese guy with no feedback buy it on Ebay, who then asked if it was 220v etc.  So cancelled that one.  From now on I'm filtering out no feedback people.

I did have one request on the Bridge II, but not about to start taking something apart to sell it.  I'd have to also then source and have the back plate to cover the gap left.

I have an offer pending on Audiogon which is lower than I ever imagined this would sell for. But if it has to go it has to go.

I never listed it on AC because it's not a personal sale & want to respect the rules. 

I can't understand why anyone cares about DSD any more - or upsampling / converting to DSD.  But that's a conversation for another thread. 

Anyway - some learning lessons for me - primarily from now on if anyone wants to trade in a non current PS Audio DAC - it's gonna be for pennies on the dollar.....

[johsti]

Schiit most likely is selling a lot more low end DACs, the Modi's, than anything else. At the low end DSD doesn't matter very much. I personally don't have any DSD files, so if a DAC has DSD capability does not matter to me if selecting a DAC.

There seem to be quite a few Gungnir and Yggdrasil owners too and I wouldn't exactly call that entry level.   I have no idea what Schiit's sales volume is, so who knows.  What about the Totaldac and Aqua La Voce?  They seem to be in high demand, don't decode DSD and are not what I'd consider entry level.  I really don't think DSD capability has anything to do with resale value on the low or high end. Many dac manufacturers are moving away from delta sigma chips that decode DSD in favor of R2R that can't decode DSD.  Pick a flavor. 

The PWD uses a delta sigma chip and can't decode DSD, but it sounds really good and is a bargain at the used prices, IMHO.     

[Early B.]

PS Audio is ridiculously overpriced. The real MSRP should be one-third of what they list. Consider yourself fortunate if you get $1,000 for it.

   

[RDavidson]

PS Audio overpriced? The price is what the market will support, dude. PSA is a good, American, company that makes quality products. That's worth something to some people these days, especially the employees in Colorado.

But anyway, jarcher, I believe the problem is timing. Your Perfect Wave was somewhat of a hot commodity a little over a year ago when the Direct Stream was hot. People were looking to buy Perfect Waves as a less expensive way to get a DS. But now, people can get used DS's at good prices and without the hassle of messing around with upgrades. Makes me wonder if you upgraded it yourself then sold it, if you'd recoup more of your $. That's a bit of a gamble. You should do a little research and see what upgraded PW's have sold for.

[OzarkTom]

Used Directstreams on Ebay is selling for 3500, upgrade kit is 3000. Not a good idea.

[Armaegis]

I can't understand why anyone cares about DSD any more - or upsampling / converting to DSD.  But that's a conversation for another thread. 

The more buzzwords, the better the resale? or at least that's what we think sometimes...

[Big Red Machine]

The more buzzwords, the better the resale? or at least that's what we think sometimes...

For that kind of dough, if you don't have all the bells and whistles, then it does not have the value. These $500 and $1000 dacs today offer DSD, but if a $3500 unit does not then why would anyone purchase it unless they had insight to how it played other formats and were laser focused on those.
My Bricasti plays everything, but it plays redbook spectacularly and I am not in a hurry to buy a $500 dac that plays every format marginally. Likewise I, and many discerning audiophools (like many high count buyers on Audiogon), would not spend $3500 on a unit that does not play everything. The Directstream seems to be the cat's meow, so the Perfect Wave is a redheaded stepchild and anyone who owns one is kind of left with an overvalued boat anchor.
I think archer sees the light and is gonna eat it on this one. I've been there before as well and lost thousands on gear that lost market favor or were replaced with higher value family members. You have to be on your toes wrt audio gear and know when to get out of something early enough to recoup as much as possible before the market floods with a replacement. Look at the new HFC Reveal line in the $699 range - they have knocked the crap out of the original line and those early adopters are dumping their IC's quickly because they will have only the value of half the Reveals when they might have shelled out $1000 for the originals. So if you can get $500 now before all the performance reviews are out, then you might not lose too much in the market. Just an example. Obviously I spend way too much time surfing Audiogon sales and forum discussions.

[RDavidson]

The Direct Stream DOES convert anything (except MQA at this time). In fact, redbook conversion is one of the things it does VERY VERY impressively. I personally haven't heard truly better redbook playback. You guys should read up on it and understand the technology and I think it'll help you better understand the value. It is called the DS because it converts all incoming formats to DSD. From what I understand, they did this so that they could more easily control its performance (via software). What's more is that PSA has been rolling out with software upgrades 100% FREE. FREE! Well......yeah, I'm sure those upgrades are paid for by the gear being "overpriced." But who else has done this in the world of DACs? I mean seriously ; A field upgradeable DAC that isn't completely chained down by its (permanent) software that is built into the hardware? This is why the DS has held its value so well versus others. It's like race cars these days ; To tune the performance, one hooks up a computer to the car and reprograms it vs buying an all new drivetrain. Sure, eventually PSA will probably find limitations with the current hardware that prevents continued software upgrades.....and so it goes. But, I think what PSA has done is hopefully the future of DAC technology. Isn't that a pretty great thought? Not needing to buy a new DAC every couple of years or whatever....even if you had to pay for software upgrades?