Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.

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JakeJ

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #140 on: 25 Mar 2017, 04:01 am »
They had no comment on it voiding the warranty, and I didn't ask.  However, I would find it strange for them to recommend in their user manual to use in vehicles powered by onboard 12V battery systems, and for such use to void a warranty.  If using a different power supply in a boat is alright, why wouldn't it be alright in your home rig?

Right, not all automotive electrical systems are clean and in fact some are quite "dirty".

It does buzz when it's not warmed up (red light on before the amber light comes on) and my amp is on - so I don't do that now.


That 'splains a lot to me.  The LEDs are telling the user it's not ready for prime time.  Could be that the plate votage is ramped up slowly and you can't really listen until that is complete.

Quote

As a pre-amp, I'm not sure that there was any difference between the +9db and 0db settings. The iFi brings the players more forward of the speakers than the Odyssey. The highs are more clear (less veiled) than the OT and the mids and highs seem to be open/a wider soundstage for each instrument. (My previous post now corrected for those who read the opposite earlier.) Again though, with a bit of loss in initial attack/impact of the bass and lower drum hits. Upright bass on the iFi makes the sound lean towards more like an electric bass than a hollow wood instrument.

Used as a buffer, I think (but in a blind switch I might not tell) it's sounds a slight bit better between the pre-amp and the amp compared to placing it between my DAC and pre-amp. The +9 setting  seems to make the sound more forward with slightly more clear. I think there is a bit more snappy bass with it used as a buffer after the pre-amp compared to using it just as a pre-amp.

So now I'll just listen to it for the next couple days as a +9 buffer in 3D 30 degree mode after the OT pre and then switch later. I do like the expanded soundstage and the improved mids and high frequency clarity though I'm not sure that that would make a difference if I cranked the OT up louder. (I haven't compared them at loud levels because I have very close neighbors.)

Is it a "game-changer" like Louis Armstrong or the Beatles? I'd say no. But it's a nice piece of kit and worth the price, at the cost of some loss of bass clarity and initial attack or snappiness.

I'm gonna wait until I have it in my system to pass judgement.  It may fare differently for me.  That said,  I thank you for your concise postings thus far, quite insightful, sir!

Zero

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #141 on: 25 Mar 2017, 04:18 am »
This only re-enforces the variable that most of us know:  There is no one great equalizer in this hobby!   The only way to get a solid grasp on something is to try it out for yourself and see if its a good fit for you!

Still, this tour has provided a lot of valuable feedback - with the bulk of it being fairly consistent!  I've been fortunate enough to pair up the iTube 2 with a wide array of gear, and so far, I've yet to hear a loss in bass presence, detail, or attack.  This isn't to say Charmerci's feedback is invalid.  I just haven't experienced the same thing thus far.  Perhaps this units been banged up by the tour?  Or maybe I simply havent stumbled across its kryptonite?

Guess I'll have to do more experimenting.  Darn.  :D 

charmerci

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #142 on: 25 Mar 2017, 08:02 pm »
  I've been fortunate enough to pair up the iTube 2 with a wide array of gear, and so far, I've yet to hear a loss in bass presence, detail, or attack.  This isn't to say Charmerci's feedback is invalid.



On a good recording of an upright bass (using the album I Know How to Do It - Barbara Morrison for example) instead of the bass going "boum", it's slightly more "woum". To me, it loses some of the sound that it comes from a hollow wood instrument. I'm removing it and putting it back in while listening to a single song.
« Last Edit: 26 Mar 2017, 06:40 pm by charmerci »

brother love

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #143 on: 26 Mar 2017, 05:04 pm »
I was taking some sound measurements after playing around with speaker placement the past couple days (ended up returning everything back to original which garners best measurements). My A/V set-up is listed under my "Systems" profile & includes an iTube2 buffer & GR Research N3 transmission line speakers (dampened with No-Rez) that are rated for 40 Hz -3 dB. No sub.

For $hits & giggles I decided to measure iTube2 buffer with 0 dB (default)/ 3D 30 degree +/ Push-pull setting & X Bass settings of 0 dB, +6 dB, & +12 dB. Results are shown below with photo of my system. Graphs apply 1/48 smoothing finer "warts & all" frequency details to show effects of iTube2 buffer settings. Disclaimer: YMMV as these results are for my room, my treatments, my equipment. :thumb:





mikeeastman

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #144 on: 26 Mar 2017, 08:43 pm »
I tried the Itube2 powered with a 35 amphr AGM battery. The power cord is diy Oyaide plug with Jupiter copper wire covered w/ cotton . I use a Ctek 1700 charger which keeps the voltage at 13.46 and I leave it connected and on at all times as it’s completely quiet.
 My base is still gone and the sound stage is wider but not as deep. The mids are less mushed with the battery but not as clean as without the Itube2. The battery did improve the sound some.

Pez

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #145 on: 27 Mar 2017, 09:46 pm »
Just an update, both iTube2s are off to the next two people on the tour. Thanks all for your help and participation.  :thumb:

JLM

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Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #146 on: 28 Mar 2017, 12:57 am »
Can we expect tracking info?

SFDude

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #147 on: 28 Mar 2017, 01:57 am »
Just an update, both iTube2s are off to the next two people on the tour. Thanks all for your help and participation.  :thumb:

Waiting for mine with the hope I'll have good time to get some quality listening and observations done. Notepad waiting in hand as well.

JakeJ

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #148 on: 28 Mar 2017, 02:36 am »
Waiting for mine with the hope I'll have good time to get some quality listening and observations done. Notepad waiting in hand as well.

I think I'm after you SFDude so take your time.  Hopefully you won't ship until Friday 4/7 at the earliest, if Konut and Brother Love can stand the wait.  :wink:

SFDude

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #149 on: 28 Mar 2017, 03:06 am »
I think I'm after you SFDude so take your time.  Hopefully you won't ship until Friday 4/7 at the earliest, if Konut and Brother Love can stand the wait.  :wink:

It will have to go out on 4/7 since I am out for a week from 4/8. Spring Break for my son so time to get away from home for a week!

JakeJ

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #150 on: 28 Mar 2017, 03:41 am »
Perfection!

charmerci

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #151 on: 29 Mar 2017, 01:01 am »
Final thoughts on the iTube2 - shipped out today to SFDude - who doesn't live in SF!   :lol:

I thoroughly enjoyed the wider soundstage of it in general and also in its 3D mode. Nice to have a bass boost switch on older, less bass-y recordings. In general, it made recordings/the sound "richer" or fuller and it gave my system a "softer" quality that I enjoyed listening to because of digital harshness in too many recordings (the mastering.) Not so much in the best recordings - like Dave Grusin's Discovered Again. It really made a wonderful difference in something like Todd Rundgren's Wailing Wall (Ballad of.... album) where it's just a piano and his voice. Wow. So, for listening to older mediocre recordings, it most definitely makes it easier and more desirable to listen for a longer time. If classical music was my primary listening, it would be a no-brainer.

However, with very percussive and acoustic bass recordings (if one likes a lot of banging, booming and plucking), I'm on the fence. It's softens the lower end sound a tiny bit too much for my tastes - but only if I'm concentrating on the music rather than reading or doing something else while its on.

To get one or not... I don't know.


SFDude

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #152 on: 31 Mar 2017, 10:12 pm »
This arrived in the mail today:


And I took about 10 mins to insert into my system between preamp (NuPrime DAC-10) and poweramp (STA-9 monoblocks) to power on and let the tube inside warm up:


Listening sessions will begin over the weekend and sporadically throughout next week before I ship this off to JakeJ on Apr 7th.

1st night observations
I set up the iTube2 via the dip switches to the Pure Tube Buffer setting.

The first I noticed is that this thing doesn't really mess up the music. No matter which setting you use. The only exception is when you engage the 3D Holographic setting in the 30deg mode. This smears the edges of the music a bit to the point of "rounding" notes and instruments. The rest of the settings are fairly transparent and that's a really good thing!

The second thing is playing around with the 3D Holographic setting really expands and extends the soundstage of the few tracks of music I tried. There was a "cool" factor to it but it also took familiar tracks and made them seem a bit unnatural. This is definitely due to my not being used to the altered soundstage from this setting.

The third thing is that I couldn't tell much difference between the SET, middle or Push Pull setting. I MIGHT have preferred one or the other but the difference between each was almost negligible to the point that I didn't bother with this and left it in the middle setting.

Fourth, the XBass+ setting ended up at the 6dB @20Hz setting for most of my listening sessions. I may not really have needed it since the Spatial M3 Turbo S play deep enough for me.

Tracks used:
  • sync24 - Memloop
  • Roger Waters - The Ballard of Bill Hubbard
  • Radiohead - How to Disappear Completely
  • Alison Kraus - Maybe
  • Tears for Fears - Shout


2nd night observations

The 3D setting at 30deg mode was what I played with the most. The Spatials in my room has a limited left to right soundstage that is mostly concentrated within the speaker boundaries. The iTube2 made a bunch of different tracks sound pretty interesting in their effect and definitely extended the music beyond the boundaries. (It's immediately noticeable when it does have this effect.) Some tracks, like a lot of the ambient & electronica music I played sounded really nice. Others, which were live performances, sounded unnatural to a certain degree. It doesn't work for everything and you'll have to experiment with this setting on certain kinds of music. Overall, for the effects on music that agreed with this setting, I enjoyed this overall.

I also switched between SET and Push Pull mode a bit more. Again, I can't really tell the difference with this in my system. It may be that the Nuprime STA-9s already introduce even-order harmonics that mimic qualities of a tube amp and inserting the iTube doesn't have much of an effect on these amps. It is also a good thing that the iTube2 doesn't actually impact the sounds of the DAC-10 & STA-9s to the degree that it sounds completely different. So there's a transparency of the signal that might be happening here which is how the circuit is designed, which keeps it clean overall. My ears may be old to notice the difference as well, which isn't a bad thing.  :green:

Tracks used:
  • Brian Eno - Music for Airports (entire album)
  • Carbon Based Lifeforms - Held Together by Gravity
  • Diana Krall - Let's Fall in Love (Live in Paris)
  • Diana Krall - Fly Me To The Moon (Live in Paris)


Third night observations

I took the unit out and listened to the above track list from the first and second nights. Although it reverted back to before I inserted the iTube2, I didn't really miss it all that much. The thing I'd miss the most would be the 3D feature on certain tracks. Otherwise, my system is pretty decent as I've assembled it so far with the same clarity that resembled when the iTube2 was inserted. That's actually a testament to how good this little unit is in terms of not altering the bulk of the analog signal. It only adds the effects that it was designed for, which is a good thing! :thumb:

Kudos to iFi for designing and building a real solid unit. This is a great addition to a lot of systems that would benefit from such a device and is not really a gimmick more than an critical part of your music chain if it radically improves it. At the price of a decent pair of cables, it would be worth a try in your system if you buy from a place with a decent return policy.

Sound quality: [ :) :) :) :) 8) ]
Value: [ :) :) :) :) 8) ]
Build: [ :) :) :) :) 8) ]
Overall: [ :) :) :) :) 8) ]
 
Many thanks to Pez and iFi for making this happen and their generosity in sponsoring this tour! I already have one of their products and they build solid gear for the money. Looking forward to other products from them which would push the envelope on performance-to-value.
« Last Edit: 7 Apr 2017, 05:42 am by SFDude »

JakeJ

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #153 on: 1 Apr 2017, 01:42 am »
Looking forward to your observations.  Hope you enjoy it.

JLM

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Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #154 on: 3 Apr 2017, 12:32 pm »
Thanks to Abbington Music Research and Pez for facilitating this tour. 


Background:

The iFi iTube 2 arrived March 31st undamaged.  I allowed 1 hour of physical warm up and another 12+ hours once turned on before taking notes.  In my simple system, it can only go downstream of my preamp.  I also invited an audiophile friend (with a lower budget and strong DIY tendencies) to stop by to get his opinions. 

Have been into hifi for 40+ years and consider myself a “speaker guy”.

My main speakers are Brines Acoustics M18-F200 (transmission line with Fostex F200A extended range driver).  These single driver speakers are rated 90 dB/w/m, 8 ohm, 25-20,000 Hz, 109 dB peaks.  I drive them with Channel Island Audio D-100 (original) mono-blocks via Scott Endler 7 ft long 12-gauge foil/air cables.  The D-100’s are fed from Endler bonded pair RCA interconnects (Scott seems to be out of business).  The F200A is a remarkable driver (massive AlNiCo magnet with a warm/full bodied sound).  I also had Bud Purvine EnABL the drivers (Bud invented the concept).  And thanks to Duke LeJeune I parallel them with Dayton Audio DC-28F-8 soft dome tweeters with a cap in series in a Late Ceiling Splash configuration (on the floor behind the M18-F200’s pointing straight up) to improve treble dispersion and enlarge the soundstage. 

My other speakers are Dynaudio BM5 Mk III (active 2-way monitors) normally connected via MonoPrice 15 ft XLR cables, but I used RCA/XLR variants of the same cable for this audition.  They are rated 42-24,000 Hz, 118 dB peaks.  I use them on cheap adjustable height stands.  Note that I had them set as follows: -1 dB treble, flat midrange/bass, 0 dB gain, and with no bass cutoff (intended for subwoofer use).  The M18-F200’s go deeper and have a wider soundstage, are warmer and slightly more musical, but the BM5 Mk III’s offer more a cleaner, more detailed sound. 

Listening was done in my well acoustically insulated 8 ft x 13 ft x 21 ft man-cave (walls/ceiling are drywall, floor is commercial carpet/pad over concrete slab on grade) from a nearfield setup similar to what Cardas prescribes.  The Dynaudio’s face directly at me, about 5 feet from front wall, about 3 feet from side walls, and 6 feet from listener.  The M18-F200’s are about 6 feet from front wall, 10 feet apart, and 7 feet from listener with severe toe-in (crossing 1.5 feet in front of listener). 

Six GIK 244 panels sit on the floor oriented vertically, located at front and side wall first reflection points and straddling the front corners.  (Note that in this “ideal” room with near-field setup the GIK panels provide minimal impact but work wonders elsewhere.)  Three 6 ft tall, 2.5 ft wide randomly filled bookcases line the side walls.  My laptop sits on my lap or ottoman while the rest of the electronics rest on a 43” x 12” x ¾” piece of shelving spiked through carpet to the concrete slab below 4ft from the front wall (afforded much better soundstaging than the very small rack it replaced).  (Have not found footers or fancy racks to be a sonic advantage.)  The back of the room has office furnishings (see images). 





The audio system is fed from three isolated 20 amp/12 gauge electrical circuits (grounded together but separate from the rest of the house) via cryogenically treated 20-amp hospital grade duplex receptacles.  The house has newer appliances and its own transformer, no power conditioners used. 

The rest of my primary system consists of:

•   Early 2014 MacBook Air with $74 Straightwire 10ft USB cable (see my comparison of USB cables in the Critic’s Circle)
•   DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core DAC/preamp/DSP with Channel Island Audio power supply (no headphones), total retail cost: $1525 (see my review in Critic’s Circle)
•   iTube 2 connected to DSPeaker via the short interconnects included with the iTube 2. 


Music used (all ripped from CD’s) included:

•   Acoustic Alchemy – Roseland, Swamp Top
•   Bach Brandenburg Concertos – Violin Concerto #1 in A Minor, BWV 1041 – 3. Allegro Assai
•   Buena Vista Social Club – Buena Vista Social Club, Chan Chan
•   Chieftains – Tears of Stone, The Lowlands of Holland
•   Dave Brubeck – Time Out, Everybody’s Jumpin
•   Fourplay – Elixir, Play Lady Play
•   James Taylor – Hourglass, Gaia
•   John Coltrane – A Love Supreme, Resolution
•   Keiko Matsui – Under Northern Lights, Under Northern Lights
•   Morphine – Cure for Pain, Buena
•   Norah Jones – Come Away With Me, Don’t Know Why
•   Patricia Barber – Modern Cool, You & The Night & The Music
•   Pink Floyd – The Dark Side of the Moon, Time
•   Taliesin Orchestra – Forbidden Forest, Tamarack Pines
•   Van Cliburn – Rachmaninov: Prelude in C Sharp Minor, Op 3/2, The Bells of Moscow


Impressions:

This was a tough, but short review.  Being so small makes it an ergonomic disaster.  But for the price and feature set it’s hard to be terribly critical of the hyper compact size.

The buffer 0 dB/9 dB modes made no discernible difference (evidently my system simply doesn’t need impedance matching improvement).

The preamp 0 dB/9 dB modes did seem to add dynamics and reveal a bit of extra detail.  But with most early digital pop recordings upper midrange became sharper, thinner, even brittle.   

3D+ added noticeable but not earth shattering soundstage width in my near-field setup (per my friend more than me), so did not bother to try the “+” setting.

We heard almost no difference with the iTube 2 SET/classic/push-pull settings.  My friend has younger ears and heard more difference, preferring the push-pull setting.  The tube palpability I seek for my current system was simply not there in any significant manner. 

Clearly heard the Xbass, but did not like it.  With it off, it seemed to reduce deep bass.  Not needed on the M18-F200’s.  On the BM5 Mk III’s the +6 dB setting provided a low rumble and mudded bass compared to keeping it turned off.  At 90 dB it caused warbling, so no point in trying the +12 dB setting. IMO adding bass boost is typically a bad idea (can overload power amp and you just can’t push a proper designed speaker beyond its inherent limits). 


Conclusions:

We decided at least for my system it’s not worth having it.  Overall the sonic impact range from rather subtle enhancement to undesirable effects.

On day 2 of the audition I wandered into the room and found flooding from an outside spigot, with half the carpet/pad soaked.  So, my review got cut short as I had to clear the room and start the restoration efforts.

martyo

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #155 on: 3 Apr 2017, 07:53 pm »
That's terrible JLM, hope it's a quick cleanup.

JLM

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Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #156 on: 4 Apr 2017, 11:23 am »
That's terrible JLM, hope it's a quick cleanup.

Thanks for your concern.

Restoration is well underway.  The Balfor company came in yesterday and jumped right on it.  Thankfully I caught it soon enough and had a shop vac (extracted 14 gallons from the carpet) to minimize the damage.  They tested for the extent of moisture in the walls, pulled up the carpet, removed the pad, pulled off a piece of shoe base and drilled holes behind it to allow for the inside of the wall to dry, left fans and a dehumidifier running, and checked the air in the room/rest of the house for relative humidity.  They expect to be done by Wednesday and cost less than $1000.  I called a plumber in to get an estimate for replacing the guilty outside spigot (that wifey had left a garden hose attached over the winter - thus the leak).  I discovered the frozen hose after a winter storm/cold snap, removed it as soon as the weather warmed up but it was too late.  With a fully finished basement, there will also be drywall/painting work involved.

Phil A

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #157 on: 4 Apr 2017, 02:02 pm »
Thanks for your concern.

Restoration is well underway.  The Balfor company came in yesterday and jumped right on it.  Thankfully I caught it soon enough and had a shop vac (extracted 14 gallons from the carpet) to minimize the damage.  They tested for the extent of moisture in the walls, pulled up the carpet, removed the pad, pulled off a piece of shoe base and drilled holes behind it to allow for the inside of the wall to dry, left fans and a dehumidifier running, and checked the air in the room/rest of the house for relative humidity.  They expect to be done by Wednesday and cost less than $1000.  I called a plumber in to get an estimate for replacing the guilty outside spigot (that wifey had left a garden hose attached over the winter - thus the leak).  I discovered the frozen hose after a winter storm/cold snap, removed it as soon as the weather warmed up but it was too late.  With a fully finished basement, there will also be drywall/painting work involved.

Good luck - sorry to hear that.  I had something similar in my old house (where fans were brought in for a few days).  Dealing with lightning damage right now.

martinr

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #158 on: 4 Apr 2017, 03:09 pm »
Sorry to hear this JLM...I had a flood in a basement in my old house....cleaners did the same..I paid the deductible and the insurance took care of the rest.  The good news was I received new carpet at a fraction of the cost.  Hope this works out for you.

- Martin

Pez

Re: Audiocircle Exclusive: iTube2 Tour.
« Reply #159 on: 4 Apr 2017, 03:38 pm »
Jeff,
I'm sorry to hear you had such a huge problem! :duh: Thank you for sending out the iTube2 so quickly despite the flooding.