Down-sides of Bi-wiring the spkr - please

simonleemd · « **on:** 22 Nov 2004, 04:39 am »

Hi, I am skeptical about Bi-wiring my new Bi-wireable spkr. -just on 2 accounts (which I only learned from the web sites) (1)the Bass would be less/leaner (2)less coherent than with Single -wire
I really need your experiences in Bi-wiring ,whether you have find such disadvantages of biwiring really occured ? or perhaps any other down-sides ??
Since the particular spkr cable that I am interested for Bi-wiring is not available here in Taiwan, therefore I need more inputs before ordering the cable from USA.
Your opinion and suggestions is hightly appreciated and thanks in advance
Simon

Lost81 · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Nov 2004, 04:45 am »

Bi-amp them instead.

The difference is rather obvious.

-Lost81

warnerwh · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Nov 2004, 05:21 am »

You could get another run of some inexpensive wire and see if you can hear any difference. Don't waste your money on expensive wire as there are more important things to spend your money on to improve the sound.

HChi · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Nov 2004, 05:47 am »

Simon,
Are you also bi-amping? Some higher end amps have two pairs of binding posts and can sense the resistence change of speakers during a music passage. In this case, it make more sense to bi-wire. If you are just running with a single stereo amp with a pair of binding post, I would suggest to replace the manufacture jumpers first, which is the must; try find some good quality jumpers (i.e. WBT or any preferred brand) and connecting the speaker wires to either high or low freqency binding posts may be a cheaper way to go or would be a good starting point. You can probably make a better judgement after experimenting that. My expereince is that bi-wire can be benefitial if your rig are at the caliber to show its potential. The extra expense of another pair of speakers should always be taken into cosideration. If you are in Taiwan, check out www.iego.com.tw. I believe they also have some good jumpers and cables and provide no-penalty money-back guaranty trial. Or you can also borrow two pairs of identical wires from friends to test the effectiveness of bi-wire at home first. Good luck!

-Howard

ctviggen · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Nov 2004, 01:39 pm »

For the speakers I have, I've always biwired (or triwired) my speakers. However, you could try a test and listen to one side only with one wire and then add two wires to see if you hear any difference. (I.e., this way you wouldn't spend any money and be able to test whether biwiring would be good.)

Jose Garcia · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Nov 2004, 04:21 pm »

You can also made the jumpers out of another feet or two of your speaker wire.

Jose.

DSK · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Nov 2004, 10:28 pm »

Simon,
I agree with others above ... bi-wiring without bi-amping is largely a waste of time and money. You are far better off with a single set of excellent wires than 2 sets of inferior wires.

You probably wouldn't have bass issues or lack of coherence that you mention UNLESS one of your pairs of wires is quite coloured. This is a bit like what can sometimes happen if you bi-amp with a tube amp on top and solid state amp on bass. The very different nature of the two amps can cause a lack of coherence as you cross from one driver to the other. However, if the two amps are closer in sound, this may not be a problem. Similarly, if your two pairs of wires are similar in sound (or are even the same type of wire) then you may not suffer this problem either.

I used to bi-wire several years ago, but as my system has improved I have gone back to high quality single wires with top quality jumpers.

Another thing you can try for free with single wires in bi-wirable speakers, is to plug the red signal wire into the red positive terminal for the tweeter/mids, and the black return wire into the black negative terminal for the bass. This can improve soundstage height etc and you may prefer this presentation.

8thnerve · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Nov 2004, 10:45 pm »

I am not a fan of biwiring, but instead prefer to use single wire with a good pair of jumpers, preferably of the same wire. Read this for more info: http://www.sonicdesign.se/biwire.html

Sedona Sky Sound · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Nov 2004, 11:53 pm »

Unlike most who have posted so far, I am a huge fan of bi-wiring (or tr-wiring on some systems). With the amps/speakers I sell, it makes a huge difference

. I am more than happy when customers come over and bring their big, expensive single cable to compare since I know that it means I will be selling another pair of bi-wire cables before they leave

.

On my speakers, the bass is extremely power hungry but the mids/tweeters are relatively efficient. As such, bi-wiring allows me to give each driver the cable that best fits the situation. I therefore use a 10 AWG equivalent wire bundle on the bass while the mids/tweeter are run by a better grade of 14 AWG. What I don't agree with is bi-wiring with identical wires or bi-wire configurations that are contained in a single bundle and then broken out at the speaker end. If you are using bi-wire cables, they should be as far apart as practical as soon as they leave the amp.

Just my biased 2 cents. As always, YMMV based on your speakers/amps/room/etc.

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

simonleemd · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Nov 2004, 11:08 am »

Hi, I really apreciate all of your info and suggestions.
BTW, I have been using Analysis Plus Oval 9-Single wire with much satisfaction;just thought of going for jumper replacement teaming up with it ; wonder should I get the jumper from the same spkr cable manufacturer or other brand ??
What would you recommend for a Good Sounding COPPER jumper ?please
Thanks in advance
Simon

rbrb · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Nov 2004, 02:57 pm »

Has anyone tried the Gecko Biwire Jumper from here
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/

They sound interesting, I'd like to hear from someone who has tried them before I spash out the cash.

markC · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Nov 2004, 10:39 pm »

b4 I spent good money on my bi-wire cables, I bought some Carol 12g wire from Home Depot and tried that first. I later found that higher quality wire sounded better, but it gave me a pretty good idea of what differences I could expect. The trial wire was cheap and after swapping it out for the good stuff, I had some wire kicking around for other projects. Sooo... I'd definatley try bi-wiring with low cost decent gauge wire first to be sure it's the result your after b4 you lay out serious cash and be disappointed.

Thebiker · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Nov 2004, 02:34 pm »

Simon,
Make life simple. Oval Plus 9 jumpers are available and the MSRP is listed at $124/pr. So, with a little discount off MSRP from you local dealer, you should be able to come in right around your budget.

Since you know you like the speaker wire, this should be a no-brainer.

The Biker

jeffreybehr · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Nov 2004, 06:03 pm »

1. $124 for JUMPERS???????????? And people complain about too-high-priced speaker cable?!?!?!?!?!
2. Biamping is by its very nature MUCH more discontinuous than biwiring and can be both highly rewarding AND highly frustrating.
3. I agree that biwiring with the right stuff can be very rewarding sound-wise. All other things (ie conductor and dielectric quality) being equal, high frequencies sound better when conducted on smaller conductors while good bass requires quantity first and then quality of conductors. Midrange is (duh...) a combination of the 2, requiring as high-quality conductors and dielectric as treble but a lot more material.
4. IMO, the 1st consideration in the choice of cable for biwiring is whether the speaker is a 2-way using a high crossover or a 3-way using a low crossover. I have both and have chosen Audioquest cables particularly well suited (in my and AQ's opinions) to each type.
5. Audioquest (and Mapleshade, too) agrees that separating the magnetic fields of the 2 cables is more important than separating just the frequencies by conductor size or type.

mdogbucket · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Dec 2004, 05:55 am »

For what it's worth, I have experimented with biwiring vs single wiring with a wide variety of speakers that offer split x-overs. In every case, the bi-wiring improved the openness and clarity of the high frequencies.

I have also experimented with single wiring with high quality jumpers. Some made of the same silver conductors used in the speaker cable. No matter how good the jumpers, the single wiring sounded smeared by comparison.

If you want to try your own experiment (especially people who single wire a biwire-able speaker): listen to your speakers with your cables connectd directly to the high frequency terminals w/ jumpers carrying signal to the bass terminals VS your cables connected directly to the bass terminals w/ jumpers carrying signal to the high frequencies. There is a noticeable degredation of sound to which ever side of the speaker (bass or highs) is not directly connected.

The best comprimise I have found if you are forced to single wire is to connect the positive of the cable to the positive high frequency terminal (with the jumper carrying that signal down to the positive bass terminal) and connect the negative of the cable to the low frequency negative terminal (letting the jumper carry the signal up to the high frequency negative terminal). This merely evens out the smearing of sound across the entire speaker range. But still doesn't sound as good as bi-wiring.

The problem with single wiring is partly that you have the delicate treble information traveling along with the not-so-delicate bass information, which modulates, blurrs, smears and distorts the treble information.

Just my experience and humble opinion

electricbear · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Jan 2005, 05:10 pm »

It seem that there are many differing opinions on the benefits of biwiring. I think it is very system dependant, for some it works for others it doesn't. What I usually advise people is that if you can biwire at little or no additional expense do it. If nothing else it makes things slightly cheaper when you decide to biamp.

nature boy · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Jan 2005, 05:31 pm »

You could always try bi-wiring with relatively inexpensive runs of 12 AWG wire and compare to a single run with jumpers.

I find bi-wiring Vandersteen 2 CE signatures to create a more dynamic and realistic presentation. I have a solid state amplifier & use two separate runs of Chris VenHaus (VH Audio) 12 AWG cryo'd unshielded (VH2C $2.99/ft) with bare wire terminations at the amp and speaker terminals. These wire and terminations are treated with Walker Audio SST silver treatment.

My four six foot runs ran me under $80 w/ shipping

Best sound I've ever heard coming out of the Vandy's.

NB

JLM · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Jan 2005, 03:53 am »

What are you talking about, bi-wiring?

My speaker is rated 25 - 20,000 Hz in room with a single driver. Are folks still messing with crossovers and woofers and tweeters?