[drphoto]

Looks like fun. Gonna try this summer.

[Bob in St. Louis]

No, but I'm on Pro-touring.com. There's a BUNCH of autocrossers there.
One of these days, I'll have a car to talk about. 

What are you driving?

[HsvHeelFan]

I used to tear up autocross courses driving an old Formula Ford in the Southeast region of the SCCA. 

There is nothing like 110 hp in a mid engine, pure bred, racing car that weighs around 1000 pounds empty with 4 wheel disk brakes and racing tires.

At the SCCA Solo II nationals held up in Gurnee, IL in '82 or '83,  I was the fastest Formula Ford in B-Modified.   Overall I finished 11th in that class behind 10 Formula Atlantic's.   A Formula Atlantic back in those days had bigger tires and 220 hp instead of 110.

This isn't me or my car, but it's a guy up in Kentucky that's running a mid 70's Van Dieman Formula Ford in autocross events.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq9ulPea-2w

HsvHeelFan

[drphoto]

Hey guys I'll be running my M6 VW Sportwagen. Hopefully by time racing season comes I nope to have installed my sport suspension (factory approved sport springs/Koni yellow shocks) I have 18" wheel and current tires are Goodyear Fierce Instinct which aren't bad for a cheap tire. When these are trashed I'll get Pilot A/S 3+. Wanted the Pilot Super Sports, but can't run summer only here, as I have no place to store a set of winter tires.

Been reading tons of articles on setup, especially on tuning using tire pressure and watching vids on racing technique.But it seems like it will take on course experience to learn turn in points, etc.

But car doesn't matter.....I just want to learn to drive smooth and quick if possible. Not worried about beating anyone. Just learning.

Still.....be fun to post some good numbers in a long roof car.

cheers to all

[DaveC113]

Will be with my new '16 STi... 

drphoto, tires are extremely important... try to find a place to store a 2nd set and run summer/performance winter (like Michelin Pilot Alpin). AS tires and racing don't mix very well. It'll still be fun but I think you'll regret your tire choices.

[ArthurDent]

Not in 30 some odd years, but still remember it well. Who knows about the future, if I find the right car, and a local group to hook up with. More fun than a barrel of monkeys. 

Old Cen Div-er here, we used to cone the entire 2.5 mile road course at Indianapolis Raceway Park for our gymkhanas. Now O'Reillys Raceway I believe, 'nuther sold naming rights thing. Pre Solo 1 & Solo 2 designation, before the insurance folks got all in a dither about performance cars, and friendly, organized off street competitions. As you seem to already realize drphoto, you will only be competing against yourself & the clock. As with many things it's about feedback & feel, so take some time to get familiar with things, then you push it till you loose it. (everybody does at some point or you're not trying hard enough) Then you know where the edge is, and can work to extend it.

It will be interesting with the longer wheelbase in your class, and probably giving up some lbs  as well. Probably not as much as my TR-4 gave up to the Lotus Super 7 that ran in my class then, but weight difference only buys you so many mistakes. I remember my first, in a '61 Kharmann Ghia coupe, on a banked 1/8 mile figure 8 oval track. What a rush. 

Have fun, and be safe.   

[Photon46]

Same here, thirty years ago I really enjoyed driving at SCCA autocross events. I first drove a Datsun 1600 roadster, then a Datsun 2000 roadster, then a 240z. It was a great deal of fun but it rapidly became a money pit as I chased better performance (and drivers with deeper pocketbooks than I had.)

[aldcoll]

I guess my question would be what is the best audio setup and playlist

[drphoto]

aldcoll, yeah for the whole Stig thing! 

I know you're right about tires, I really want those Pilot Sports anyway. Since I have a beater van to drive in the snow, I suppose I could just put the wagon in the garage at the family farm for the 2 to 3 months it gets really cold here and just drive the van. Besides when it does get cold, I don't want to make short trips in the VW. Hard on a motor. Plus the car will last longer if not driven for 3 months of year

BTW: the wagon does not have a longer wheelbase, it's same as MK6 Golf, just a longer overhang in rear. Mk6 called Jetta in states, but has nothing in common with Mk Jettas (other than drive train) It's a Golf with a longer roof.

i will probably get performance brake pads and maybe slotted rotors too.

[drphoto]

Oh, one other thought, even if I don't get really serious about trying to post good times, I think learning performance driving will make one safer on the street. I always wanted to go to one of the performance driving schools they have at race tracks, but that's expensive. Figure this might be a lot cheaper alternative. Plus, I've always enjoyed tossing a car around at sane speeds than trying to run triple digits on the freeway and facing big fines or potentially catastrophic crashes.

When I was in high school, I went to the huge parking lot of what was then the local events arena the first time it snowed and practiced learning how to recover from a skid. Almost got arrested but but when I explained I wasn't just goofy around but was trying to learn something they let me go. It really did help to not panic if the car went into a skid by learning what it felt like and how to correct. (rear drive car back then)

Oh, watched that video of the guy with the Formula Ford. That dude is badass!!

[DaveC113]

Pilot Super Sports are really nice summer tires that last a long time and have a soft ride, but aren't the best track tires. Michelin Cup II are their more track oriented tires, but they don't last long. It's worth looking at the rules too as some mods may move you to different classes and this includes tires. Anyways, the RE71s are a good choice for stock classes and what I might get after the stock tires wear, which are decent...

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE-71R&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=44WR8RE71RXL&tab=Sizes

The Cup 2s were developed for Ferraris, treadwear is 180 which might be too low for some stock classes, idk... but either the RE71s, Cup 2s or a couple others are the go-to for streetable track tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+Cup+2&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=44YR8PSC2XL&tab=Sizes

Besides tires, I wouldn't get anything... just drive the car and see what it needs... most likely anti-roll bars off the bat. That's the only mod I'm doing to my STi, a new rear anti-roll bar, end-links f/r and a brace for the rear bar. That will make the handling more neutral and most all cars are setup to understeer from the factory... it's safest, especially for inexperienced drivers but can be frustrating... 

[drphoto]

I think any good summer tire should suffice for what I want to accomplish. Besides, the speeds are low and how much ultimate grip needed? I mean what's the top you hit on Solo.....40 in a longish straight?

I can seriously flog some corners even with my admittedly sloppy technique and the fairly cheap all season Goodyears. Yes, they are a 'performance' tire, but not in the same league as Pilots. I am practicing trail braking. Weight shift control seems all important.

I simply can't afford to buy some sort of racing tire, I mean the new Pilots in my size or what? $700 a set not inc mounting. Even if I land this new job my rep is working on, I still can't just flush cash down the drain. Gotta think about building the old nest egg.

and again, I'm not looking to be the fastest. I just want to learn, have fun, hang with some fellow gear heads.

Dave, a lot of guys on the VW forum run uprated rear sway bars on this car (stiffer rear=more oversteer) However, lot of vids on Solo talk about how you can balance handling to neutral just with air pressure differential.



I can find enough ways to piss away money between audio, and guitar equipment.

[ArthurDent]

drphoto - fwiw I think you're on track for fun. You can tweak as you want, when you want, if you want. I never had a set of racing/performance tires till I actually built a G Prod Sprite a few years after starting the autocrossing.

Hadn't checked out the model you'd noted, so wasn't aware there wasn't a lengthened wheel base. So much the better, but the lengthened body work will be a factor to be felt out. And 'Good On Ya' regarding the parking lot practice sessions. If more folks did that there would be fewer accidents. imo opinion it's far more important how fast you can stop, than how fast you can go. 

[drphoto]

Arthur, yeah, that practice probably save my life once. Driving fast on clear freeway went suddenly hit section of packed snow. Near zero traction and approaching stopped cars. Gently steered into deep loose snow in median to slow. Whew. Had the shakes after that one. But without that practice.....I would have mostly likely just freaked out with no clue how to handle situation.

Besides a track performance school, I wish I had the money to go to that rally school that's in New Hampshire. Sure the F1 (and NASCAR) dudes get all the attention, but the best drivers in the world for my money are those pro rally guys. It's insane.

It's funny, I have this love/hate thing with cars. In some ways, they are the bane of our existence. They are expensive to buy and maintain, yet we've built up our country so that we depend on them. But then again they are (or can be) beautiful things and driving can be a lot of fun.

But, If I could find away to live without one, I probably would. I pay a lot of money to have this depreciating asset just sitting idle most of the time. My loan payment is not that bad, but where I live we get whacked with a fairly hefty property tax bill every year upon tag renewal. I'm almost afraid to run the numbers once you add it all up....gotta be a couple dollars a mile.
Uber anyone?
 

[HsvHeelFan]

My recommendation is to get you a car specific for racing.  It can be autocross or entry level road racing.

When I was 16, I started by splitting time with my Dad at autocrosses in a '64 MG Midget.  This was his daily driver and he's the one that floated the valves and messed it up.  Fortunately, it wasn't me.

One of the guys at the events was a former SCCA road racer that recommended getting a dedicated car for racing.  10 year old Formula Fords, in the late 70's weren't competitive at road racing events, but were stellar for autocross.  They were cheap (very cheap if you knew were to look), easy to get parts for and super easy to work on.

A lot of guys these days trailer a 1st or 2nd gen Miata to the event.  That way if they break it, it's not a huge deal. Worrying about your daily driver, while you're trying to be competitive, will most likely affect your course time - make you slower.

The pinnacle for Formula Fords was the mid 80's.   The Swift DB1 was new on the scene:

http://www.apexspeed.com/community/_general/1984swift_roadtest.pdf

and  Van Dieman and Reynard along with some other manufacturers were working hard to keep up.  The Swift was successful because it tucked ALL of the suspension inside the bodywork and paid close attention to aerodynamics.  They're a pain in the *** to get in and out of and they're awful autocross cars. You need room to move in the cockpit, which the Swift doesn't have, so early 80's and older formula fords are still one good way to go.

HsvHeelFan

[DaveC113]

I think any good summer tire should suffice for what I want to accomplish. Besides, the speeds are low and how much ultimate grip needed? I mean what's the top you hit on Solo.....40 in a longish straight?

I can seriously flog some corners even with my admittedly sloppy technique and the fairly cheap all season Goodyears. Yes, they are a 'performance' tire, but not in the same league as Pilots. I am practicing trail braking. Weight shift control seems all important.

I simply can't afford to buy some sort of racing tire, I mean the new Pilots in my size or what? $700 a set not inc mounting. Even if I land this new job my rep is working on, I still can't just flush cash down the drain. Gotta think about building the old nest egg.

and again, I'm not looking to be the fastest. I just want to learn, have fun, hang with some fellow gear heads.

Dave, a lot of guys on the VW forum run uprated rear sway bars on this car (stiffer rear=more oversteer) However, lot of vids on Solo talk about how you can balance handling to neutral just with air pressure differential.



I can find enough ways to piss away money between audio, and guitar equipment.

Well, you gotta have tires one way or another...     The RE71 option is less cash than the Pilot Super Sports you were considering. Granted treadwear isn't the best, but if you want summer tires you have some other priorities besides treadwear anyways.

You can run tire pressures and alignments for autox you wouldn't run on the street... it can correct for some things, but it's just easier to drive a more neutral handling car. Most cars... even performance cars, are intentionally setup to understeer from the factory as it's safer for inexperienced drivers. This is the one thing you can change easily and inexpensively.

Anyways, there's no better or faster way to flush cash down the drain than racing anything... even bicycles will cost a fortune, nevermind cars. It's definitely something to think about...

[drphoto]

Dave you're spot on about racing and money and you mentioned bikes. I used to road race when I was young and fit and yeah I had a ton of money in gear. Then I moved to offroad. Didn't race but still spent a lot on fancy go fast bits.

On tires, be nice to find a reasonable balance between performance and longevity. I mean $700 for a set of tires on what amounts to an economy car is a lot of money in my book. The tires I have now actually seem pretty good too me and they've held up well despite some tomfoolery. Do need to rotate as fronts take a bit of abuse in a front drive car.

& yeah, I'd love to have a dedicated early Miata track car, but just not possible anytime soon.

And again, I'm not looking to take autocross by storm, just want to have a little fun without trying to flog the car on public roads.

[DaveC113]

Dave you're spot on about racing and money and you mentioned bikes. I used to road race when I was young and fit and yeah I had a ton of money in gear. Then I moved to offroad. Didn't race but still spent a lot on fancy go fast bits.

On tires, be nice to find a reasonable balance between performance and longevity. I mean $700 for a set of tires on what amounts to an economy car is a lot of money in my book. The tires I have now actually seem pretty good too me and they've held up well despite some tomfoolery. Do need to rotate as fronts take a bit of abuse in a front drive car.

& yeah, I'd love to have a dedicated early Miata track car, but just not possible anytime soon.

And again, I'm not looking to take autocross by storm, just want to have a little fun without trying to flog the car on public roads.

The links to the tires were for my size... 245/40/18... since the site remembers what car you have. It's likely tires for your car would be less expensive. Tire mfgrs are cutting some of the smaller sizes though so some performance tires may not be available. 

If you're looking for a balance of longer tread life and performance the Pilot Super Sports might be worth it, they are the only max performance summer tire with a mileage warranty I'm aware of. I was really surprised that they lasted so long... Tire Rack is a great site for tire reviews and info, you might be able to find something along those lines but less $... most brands are cheaper than Michelin.

[drphoto]

I run 225/40-18.  The Pilot SS seems to be THE tire, getting universal acclaim. All the Michelin tires I've had over the years have been fine all around, although none were summer performance, this would be my first set. I think if I tried to go with something else I'd regret. But for as little as I drive, I can probable go another year on current tires, so it's not something I need to decide right away. I could even start on Solo with them, as I just learn to navigate a course.

I appreciate all the relies guys.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I've wondered about a set of the absolutest cheapest tires made on an SCCA car.
That way, you slide more. More slide, more fun, right?