SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION

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poseidonsvoice

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #100 on: 13 Dec 2016, 07:26 pm »
When I was reading the replies, particularly about comparing to Geddes, I already thought... here comes Anand's new speakers!

Indeed. My NA12's are already much better than my previous Abbeys, so it's unfortunate I can't compare them to the X1 at the same time, like the fellas did when they compared the M3 Turbo to the X1's.

But...this X1 may be the ticket for me for a basement system and the NA12's would stay upstairs in their own dedicated theater room. Our basement is in the beginning stages of being built up...

Moreover...I'm more than curious about active setups. I know they have tremendous potential  :thumb:

Best,
Anand.


jtwrace

Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #101 on: 13 Dec 2016, 07:28 pm »
And I love having the DEQX option too. Greater control over crossover slopes and points plus more importantly the ability to keep things flat (or to your preferences) even at lower frequencies where the room is exerting its effects on unique ways.  IIRC some DEQX also use SMPS so conceivably those models could make use of a LIO as power supply, no?
While the room is certainly the most important part I believe in fixing the room with treatments and not electrically. I used to do it that way and was shocked when I went the other route.

YMMV.

rajacat

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #102 on: 13 Dec 2016, 10:00 pm »
It's very impressive that the X1 can get to a 300hz crossover point with an 18" waveguide. There must be some heavy EQ to reach that point.

roscoeiii

Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #103 on: 13 Dec 2016, 10:19 pm »
It's very impressive the the X1 can get to a 300hz crossover point with an 18" waveguide. There must be some heavy EQ to reach that point.

And within 0.5db from a crossover in the analog domain! Wow.  :o :o

Vinnie R.

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #104 on: 13 Dec 2016, 10:47 pm »
It's very impressive that the X1 can get to a 300hz crossover point with an 18" waveguide. There must be some heavy EQ to reach that point.

I wouldn't call it heavy EQ'ing at all...

The compression driver's diaphragm is 4" (not sure on the dimensions of the actual waveguide that it fires into),
and the bass driver from 300Hz on down is indeed an 18" (dual voice coil driver - with two 8-ohm voice coils in parallel).

Quote
And within 0.5db from a crossover in the analog domain! Wow.  :o :o

We measured +/- 0.5dB across the entire band on-axis.  I believe the mic was a foot away from the waveguide. 

Yes, we were using the LIO X1 AMP, with it's active 300Hz crossovers on the bass driver (LPF) and compression driver (HPF)... ALL
in the analog domain.  :singing:

Both Jason and Tom were there to witness it when we did the measuring (before and after all the adjustments that I made
throughout the day, and it wasn't looking nearly that good earlier on).  I guess I was having a lucky day because it was like hitting a bulls eye when we nailed that response down!

I'm currently working on updating the schematics to reflect what we did last Friday, and then I'll be re-spinning the PCB.  I can
only image it will sound better than the hacked up one that we were using.  :icon_lol:

Quote
While the room is certainly the most important part I believe in fixing the room with treatments and not electrically.

+1  (but some rooms can be very challenging)

Vinnie

rajacat

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #105 on: 13 Dec 2016, 10:48 pm »
I guess the 1.4" throat Beryllium CD is the determining factor. It must be a very good CD to get down that low.
Yep, it must be the 4" diaphragm that can handle the power. Most 1.4" CDs have ~500hz as the low point.

jtwrace

Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #106 on: 14 Dec 2016, 12:40 am »
It certainly is impressive.  From what I understand Clayton has years of experience developing drivers thus isn't yo momma or daddy's driver.   :lol:

jtwrace

Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #107 on: 14 Dec 2016, 02:10 am »
But...this X1 may be the ticket for me for a basement system and the NA12's would stay upstairs in their own dedicated theater room. Our basement is in the beginning stages of being built up...

Best,
Anand.
Could be the ideal setup with the two rooms.  Perhaps it's time to get that deposit down.   :P

poseidonsvoice

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #108 on: 14 Dec 2016, 02:13 am »
All this theoretical discussion regarding how low we can control directivity is only important when you take psychoacoustics into account. And from what Geddes and Greisinger have said, the importance of CD starts at 500Hz and becomes much more important at about 700-800Hz all the way up to 7Khz. An octave below 700Hz (350Hz) or an octave above 7khz (14khz) is really just bragging rights in all honesty. So it isn't as controlled in its directivity at 300Hz...guess what? Who cares? (It better be an octave above though  :wink:).

Remember the modicum of comparison were Spatial's M3/M4 speakers which are really tricked out coaxial designs with much much smaller waveguides. When you move up to the X1 which has its own very dedicated 18 inch waveguide, the difference must of been night and day. Not to mention the driver technology jumped up by leaps and bounds (titanium compression tweeter versus beryllium). And then you add the active setup and its own advantages (I hope Danny R doesn't read this  :lol: ).

Polar plots will be the most telling...

And regarding power, you are not pumping 100 watts into this tweeter at 300 Hz. This is 96dB AND active, AND you are padding that tweeter down from a 110dB. This isn't the usual 1" compression tweeter, but 1.4" with a 4"diaphragm, and the 18 inch waveguide certainly helps. I am all for big waveguides. I love them. But not to a point of bragging rights or even controlling directivity to a very low frequency where psychoacoustically it may not make a difference at all. I'm not worried about the tweeter exceeding it's excursion capability,given its build quality, active setup with DSP, and of course overall efficiency of the design. You will drive yourself deaf or out of the room or both when you start pumping the kind of power that would drive the tweeter into higher distortion due to higher excursions! With a 1.4" tweeter, might there be a little less extension in the top end? Perhaps. But again. Who cares? I'm in my 40's and I know I can't hear past 15khz, and no audiologist will claim that I can hear that far up either :lol: Thank you presbycusis.

There is a lot of silly marketing in high end audio. I am just glad to see good engineering in progress...and the X1 seems to reach that goal.

Best,
Anand.
« Last Edit: 15 Dec 2016, 01:30 am by poseidonsvoice »

DaveC113

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #109 on: 14 Dec 2016, 02:45 am »
All this theoretical discussion regarding how low we can control directivity is only important when you consider psychoacoustics...

Best,
Anand.


This is key...  :thumb:   

I haven't heard it, but I think the X1 has tons of potential because the design is better wrt psychoacoustics vs a typical 3 or 4-way dynamic speaker, at least for my tastes.

You can theoretically tear apart any speaker on the planet, because they're all designs based on choosing compromises, but results are all that really matters.

Folsom

Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #110 on: 14 Dec 2016, 03:05 am »
It doesn't play down to 300hz with a wave guide because they wanted directionalality at 300hz. It plays that range because about 300hz is where we become sensitive to phase up until around 3khz. Essentially this speaker is as coherent or more so than a fullrange driver. That's what's up. Very smart.

DaveC113

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #111 on: 14 Dec 2016, 04:20 am »
It doesn't play down to 300hz with a wave guide because they wanted directionalality at 300hz. It plays that range because about 300hz is where we become sensitive to phase up until around 3khz. Essentially this speaker is as coherent or more so than a fullrange driver. That's what's up. Very smart.

I think it's likely better than a full range on a flat baffle as well, the polar pattern is probably much better. There's a lot of advantages that actually matter in a point-source horn, and major disadvantages absent that tend to get glossed-over when looking at multi-way speakers.

I'm thinking eventually horn/wg type speakers will gain popularity over dynamic speakers... well, I can only hope...   :)   

poseidonsvoice

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #112 on: 14 Dec 2016, 10:31 am »
Deposit sent  :D

Best,
Anand.

goskers

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #113 on: 14 Dec 2016, 11:48 am »
I don't think you'll be disappointed. :thumb:

jtwrace

Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #114 on: 14 Dec 2016, 01:59 pm »
I don't think you'll be disappointed. :thumb:
Agreed.  Perhaps a trip to SLC for a day though.   :green:



Deposit sent  :D

Best,
Anand.
Is the Vinnie Rossi LIO on order too?   :P

poseidonsvoice

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #115 on: 14 Dec 2016, 02:18 pm »
Is the Vinnie Rossi LIO on order too?   :P

Not yet, but it isn't ruled out  :thumb:

I'm too much of a tweaker as you already know and I enjoy my DIY  :wink:

Best,
Anand.

jtwrace

Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #116 on: 14 Dec 2016, 02:20 pm »
Not yet, but it isn't ruled out  :thumb:

I'm too much of a tweaker as you already know and I enjoy my DIY  :wink:

Best,
Anand.
I've got a Bent TAP-X for you then which you can use with the VR Line Level Module and your DIY NeuroChrome Amps.   :wink:

poseidonsvoice

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #117 on: 14 Dec 2016, 02:23 pm »
I've got a Bent TAP-X for you then which you can use with the VR Line Level Module and your DIY NeuroChrome Amps.   :wink:

I've already got one...remember?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118082.0

Best,
Anand.

jtwrace

Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #118 on: 14 Dec 2016, 02:24 pm »
I've already got one...remember?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118082.0

Best,
Anand.
Yep, that's in the other system.   :P

poseidonsvoice

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Re: SPATIAL AUDIO - X1 UNIWAVE INTRODUCTION
« Reply #119 on: 14 Dec 2016, 02:26 pm »
Yep, that's in the other system.   :P

The other system will be pure HT, so will have an AV processor.

Best,
Anand.