[Music Maven]

What is the buyer's feedback rating? That might give some idea if he has a tendency to be fussy...

Used is used... that's why it costs less than new...

Of course, no matter what you do about it now, he might collar you with a "neutral" or "negative" but that's life...

It seems that if he was concerned how the item looked 360 degrees around, he should have grilled you before the purchase.

[jswallac]

He may very well leave negative feedback.  I think you have some recourse at Agon through a dispute procedure.  If it comes to that this thread certainly gives our opinion.  As Tom Petty sang, don't back down.

[Sa-dono]

I am not sure whether to be really irritated, or if this is considered normal.

I recently sold my Denon 5900 on AudiogoN for a very good price.  
Upon my inspection  I rated it a 9-10 I thought it was in perfect condition cosmetically and performance wise.  The buyer asked if it was "mint", I said "yes", and he agreed to purchase.

A day or two later, the person buying it sent me an email complaining that the bottom (yes the bottom) of the unit had scuff marks on it. These were obviously from the Stillpoints vibration dampers I used on the unit. In case you aren't familiar with the Stillpoints, at the top are ceramic balls that rotate, and that is what scuffed the bottom of this player.

Now I think I am being gouged by this person. They want a price adjustment, and claim they have contacted the Denon rep for a quote on one.

Is it me or is this person just a little too picky? Does anyone here scrutinize the bottom of their equipment that closely, or does this sound like someone trying to make a good deal even better?

First off, I have to say Mike is a great[/i] guy. That said, I have to present the other side of the coin, and the fact that the buyer is not wrong. I think many of you need to review the Audiogon Grading Scale (AGS). One of the whole points of the AGS is to avoid these squabbles, through "accurately convey(ing) to buyers the physical condition of your item" as "Buyers do not like surprises". I personally feel many A-gon sellers should take the few minutes it takes to fully analyze the items they are selling, in comparison to the AGS, before providing their ratings.

The fatal mistake Mike made was saying the unit was "mint" (otherwise there would be more wiggle room for negotiation).

The definition of mint, as stated by the AGS is:

"10 / 10 - Mint - Essentially never used, factory fresh appearance!

The word "mint" is used so often that it's meaning is taken for granted........

Electronics must have  no visible scratches, nicks, or blemishes anywhere on the piece."

Regardless of how good of a deal the unit still is in the current condition, Mike and the buyer agreed to enter a deal to sell/buy the unit, of that specific condition, at that price. He is still of course free to turn down the buyer's request for a price adjustment.

[Inscrutable]

I was just going to post something very similar.  Mike was absolutely correct in his OFFICIAL and PUBLISHED rating of 9/10.  His mistake was being cavalier about using the word 'mint' in his conversation.  I suspect the guy entrapped him into doing just that, and that is the position I'd take in a dispute resolution.  I hope that was in a telephone conversation and not an email.

I must say (knocking on wood) that I've never encountered anything like this in any of my transactions there.

[ohenry]

One thing I admire about the best sellers is, regardless of the rating or price, they always post photos of any imperfections and describe them in the narrative.

And in the buyer's defense, maybe he has a preamp that inverts phase and he is compensating for that by turning the source upside down, making the marred surface noticeable.  

[jermmd]

I too agree that this was not a mint receiver and should not have been advertised as such.  A rating of 9 was correct though.  Your response was appropriate and a refund should be offered.  I would not offer a price adjustment because the deal was otherwise fair and the scratches were so trivial.  As a collector (coins, comics), I can tell you that mint means perfect-and I mean perfect.  I can tell you that there are people who will have stress over imperfections that are non visible and completely unimportant. Have you heard of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder).  It's fairly common everywhere but rampant in this hobby.

Joe M.

[Merle]

This is exactly why I no longer care to ship gear anymore. I've been buying and selling gear on a regular basis thru Audiogon for years. I've had people I believe have damaged gear to get a refund. [one guy sent me photo's of a pair of expensive speakers with a corner smashed, you know, "shipping damage". I sent him his money back and he returned the speakers. The funny thing was, when I got them back, the box and packing materials were in perfect condition. Dropped one taking them out of the box maybe? When I wrote him back about this, he never replied. Had another guy break off a binding post from a Rega. Can't prove it, but I'm quite sure he did. Seems it would be hard to only snap off a binding post without ANY other signs of damage because of shipping.] I'm also tired of buying gear that's grossly misrepresented. I bought a vintage Harmon Kardon integrated amp that was advertized as a "9". While I really didn't expect it to be a "9", due to it's age, what I actually received was a beat to shit amp that not only looked like it had been run over by a truck, but also had a dead channel. The seller insisted the amp was "perfect" when he shipped it and anything wrong must has happened in shipping. He also refused to take it back, telling me if I had problems with it, I needed to file a claim with Fed-Ex. I didn't bother with Fed-Ex since I doubt they would cover what was obviously 20 years of abuse. I'm also tired of listing gear at very low prices only to have people contact me, asking me to "go lower and include free shipping". Sorry to go on such a rant but this is one of my pet peeves. I actually had one guy e-mail me telling me I WILL SHIP THE AMP TO HIS HOUSE FOR HIS INSPECTION AND IF HE FINDS IT TO BE ACCEPTABLE, HE WILL MAIL ME A CHECK FOR $XXX. [about half of what my asking price was] Personally, I give up. Now, when I sell gear, it's only local. I want the person to look and listen to the gear. I just won't ship anymore.

[cryotweaks]

I was just going to post something very similar.  Mike was absolutely correct in his OFFICIAL and PUBLISHED rating of 9/10.  His mistake was being cavalier about using the word 'mint' in his conversation.  I suspect the guy entrapped him into doing just that, and that is the position I'd take in a dispute resolution.  I hope that was in a telephone conversation and not an email.

I must say (knocking on wood) that I've never encountered anything like this in any of my transactions there.

I usually under represent my gear when I sell it.  That way I limit my chances of a disappointed buyer.  When I said mint in our phone conversation, I meant it.  The unit was not that old, didn't have a mark on it (not looking at the bottom), and not that many hours either.

I thought I was being straight with the guy.

I have rarely ever looked at the bottom of a piece of gear when buying or selling.  The only exception is loudspeakers. It never even occured to me to scrutinize my 5900 that closely.  Besides 99% of audio gear has a stamped, unfinished sheet metal bottom.


By the way, since my last email I have heard nothing from this person.

[Mad DOg]

no where in Mike's ad did it say mint and it was listed as 9/10...hopefully all has been resolved now, Mike...

[zybar]

I usually under represent my gear when I sell it.  That way I limit my chances of a disappointed buyer.  When I said mint in our phone conversation, I meant it.  The unit was not that old, didn't have a mark on it (not looking at the bottom), and not that many hours either.

I thought I was being straight with the guy.

I have rarely ever looked at the bottom of a piece of gear when buying or selling.  The only exception is loudspeakers. It never even occured to me to scrutinize my 5900 that closely.   ...

Mike,

You were being totally straight and honest.

Your situation is why I write my ad like this:

I am conservatively rating these amps as an 8/10. The only visible marks are underneath where they were on Sistrum Platforms.

Glad the guy has gone away.

George

[nathanm]

It would probably be better if Audiogon removed the "10/10 Mint" grade and had "NEW" at the top and then jump to "9/10" on down.  That way the OCD-types can just stick with "NEW" stuff and not worry about cosmetic flaws which are inadvertently created by the seller during that 1 year of usage.  This would make sense to me considering the whole purpose of the site is selling USED gear.

[jpsartre]

It would probably be better if Audiogon removed the "10/10 Mint" grade and had "NEW" at the top and then jump to "9/10" on down.  That way the OCD-types can just stick with "NEW" stuff and not worry about cosmetic flaws which are inadvertently created by the seller during that 1 year of usage.  This would make sense to me considering the whole purpose of the site is selling USED gear.

Having used AG several times, I think this is EXACTLY how it should be done. As for the OCDs, it's hardly ever by choice so accept and tolerate, as much as it blows dealing with one (personal experience notwithstanding).

[Inscrutable]

Mike,
I don't doubt you were completely straight and honest with the guy.  I don't look underneath my pieces either.  I'm just curious ... did you ever mention what this guy's feedback rating was (and if it was mostly as buyer or seller)?

I agree with the Agon rating scale comments.  Even if I think my piece looks absolutely new, I will never rate it above 9/10.  And although I generally like to talk with prospective buyers and sellers, I prefer to keep anything wrt the transaction in writing/email.

It's a shame people like this have to ruin it for the rest of us by driving away people like Merle.

[thayerg]

lLots of dickheads on audiogon. The dispute resolution procedure is your best hope. I had one buyer be totally unreasonable and give me bad feedback because he didn't pay paypal commission although I clearly stated it was part of the deal and I wouldn't ship until he did. Dispute resolution removed the negative feedback.

Sounds to me like the buyer would have found something else to complain about if there hadn't been any scuff marks on the bottom.