[null]

I don't think it's that cheap, considering the amp was only $30 before mods, but hey. I'm not knocking Mr. Rossi's design or effort or anything. I'm sure he did do a ton of hard work with the T-Amps; I just can't personally pay $400 for something that was only $30 to start off with. Keep up the great work Vinnie.

[cjr888]

I don't think it's that cheap, considering the amp was only $30 before mods, but hey. I'm not knocking Mr. Rossi's design or effort or anything. I'm sure he did do a ton of hard work with the T-Amps; I just can't personally pay $400 for something that was only $30 to start off with. Keep up the great work Vinnie.

Would you be interested if you didn't know that a single aspect of the product, prior to modifications cost $30?  I'm not sure if your system is DIY or not, but for any component you own, do you know the exact parts cost and determine the ratio prior to buying?  Does it matter?  

Not trying to be a pain in the neck, but just playing the other side.  

Personally I think the amplifier is a bargain, and for the cost, there aren't too, too many units $400 and under that I've heard, liked, and could live with.  If I heard it and even was mildly impressed, I'd consider it a value.

[mcgsxr]

I have to agree with cjr888 on this one - not only is it a free market, so the manufacturer can choose their pricing, but what about the cost of all the stuff that is not represented in the $30 that you quote?

Priced enclosures lately?  Thought about the cost of the parts used in the modification?  How about the cost of the battery?  How about the cost of shipping all that stuff to his house, prior to spending his free time to put it all together?  I assume that Vinnie does not have a warehouse of such items in his yard?

Most importantly, how do you cost the know how it takes to generate such a product?

Now, that rant all said, is $400 cheap or expensive for something like this?  I don't know, is $1000 cheap or expensive for a Vega tv, since the sum of the parts might only add up to 40-50% of the retail price?

There are many expensive items in audio, that started out as something else - cripes, go have a look at issue #33 of Hifi+ magazine - there is a review of a Townshend Audio TA565 Universal Player - guess what, it is a worked over Pioneer DV565S-a - it even uses the Pioneer remote for crying out loud - retail price of the modded Pioneer?  How about 2500 pounds sterling - roughly US$4850... so what is the retail of the Pioneer?  99 pounds sterling, or US$192!

In any case, it is always the customer that defines value, and I can respect the fact that, for you, this does not seem to be it.

Looks like there are other opinions though...

[Dmason]

The amp is capable of hitting waaaay above its weight. I would not imagine it is in the same league as ANY other $400 amp, and demands to be partnered with a good source and full range system to get an idea of what its abilities are. Over the last week it has become a whole 'nother creature, faster, more balls, bass response seemingly to DC, warmer in the mids, more and more resolving.

I firmly believe the little TA2024 chip is the pick of the litter in Tripath's fleet....the story unfolds: battery powered/Tripath-based amplifiers.

[Vinnie R.]

All,

There are some updated pics of the Clari-T-Amp at
http://photos.yahoo.com/vinnie822

Five units were sent out yesterday  

I have two more that are finished, and I will be finishing the
remaining three tonight and tomorrow night.  

I am finishing an updated description page, which will be released
shortly...

Regards,

Vinnie

[ludavico]

null, c'mon man you must be joking.  $400, for lightning in a box?  If it is half as good as Dan sez,  that's a deal.  Look close, how much resemblence is there between the $30 original and Vinnie's hand-made version?  

OK, so what speakers work well with the VR Audio amp?  I am still having trouble getting my head around so few watts...  

Me no like tubes.  

Dan, you could live with this amp in your main system...playing something like Jeff Beck "You Had It Coming"?



Ta,
John

[doug s.]

...I just can't personally pay $400 for something that was only $30 to start off with. Keep up the great work Vinnie.

null, yure missing the point.  one part of this amp was $30.  if you add up all the other parts, i'm hazarding a guess that vinnie has ~$150+/- in parts costs.  any other product w/this much parts cost means ~$1500 retail price.

vinnie, ya need a foto of the interior w/the *other* stuff shown, not yust the battery!     and, i am wondering what (if any) info ya found out, about this amp driving 14-ohm-load speakers.

doug s.

[dave_c]

Hey Vinnie, can the battery charged by 220v outlet?  I'm moving abroad and have to keep that in mind.  Looks sweet otherwise.  Keep it up!

[JoshK]

I think Vinnie price is more than fair.  I look at it this way.  Who cares that it was $30 to begin with, basically all that is giving you is the board, which is easier to obtain via the SI than directly.  If you bought a custom PCB with Tripath chip you'd be spending likely more than $30 to start.  The board is really good and can be used to quite great end results so it seems so Vinnie is doing this community a service for those that lack the ability to achieve it on their own.  

The $400 pays for lots of additional parts and lots of hard work.  I mean if you hire a plumber to come work on your sink for two hours you don't expect to pay him just for the parts do you?  If you are abject to paying someone to do it I think he more or less gave you the idea of what is being done and you can hazard it yourself, but it sounds like he has the know how and the experience to do it right.  

I think the difference between this and taking a $400 dac and spending $1800 on mods to mod it out, is the $400 tripath amp will likely kill any off the shelf amp for the application it was designed for (high efficiency speaks).  In the $2200 range there are plenty of really good DACs to choose for that would be a lot of competition for the modded player.  And there you don't have the same brick and mortar service that you would get with buying a $2200 retail DAC so I think you take a little more risk, in my mind that means that the modded DAC really needs to trump all $3000 and under off the shelf products.

[Dmason]

Ludavico,

I figure the VR Audio amp is sonically about as good as I have heard coming from a Class D amp. The battery thing represents an ideal for a few reasons. I have heard just about all the current "digital" amp designs, and I believe Tripath might be the most sophisticated of them all. I also believe that AC powered amps are going to have an electrical signature to the sound, regardless of what you may do to "condition" the power.

True, it is a wee cup of ambrosia, so, it all comes down to having the right speakers, which I do. I have three pairs that make PLENTY of noise with the Clari-T amp, none being less sensitive than about 91 db. As far as Jeff Beck, I was listening to 'Blow By Blow,' a dynamics wonderland to anyone who knows this one, or Steve Hackett's live stuff, with roaring guitars, Moog bass pedals, and tons of crunch, the dark side of Genesis, so to speak, and it just sounds all the better. You ask if I could live with it in my 'main rig?' --I have been for about a month now.

I am waiting to see what the new speakers are Omega and Daedalus are coming up with, to try. If I had more room and lived in a house, I would very, very likely pop for a pair of the apparently outstanding and 96db efficient Daedalus DA-1 to go with this thing, or maybe the Cain&Cain Ben, and I am thinking about going over to Texas to visit JCC, taking the Clari-T, to audition with his Daedalus's. It is all about application with the amp. 5 watts is TONS, if you have the right speakers. Think: SET with Balls, and you about have it.

[Vinnie R.]

Hey Vinnie, can the battery charged by 220v outlet?  I'm moving abroad and have to keep that in mind.  Looks sweet otherwise.  Keep it up!

Hi dave_c,

   The charger that I supply with the Clari-T-Amp is designed to only input 120Vac 60Hz power (it draws 18W of power).  

You would need to use a foreign travel voltage converter (radioshack sells a 50W, 240Vac-to-120Vac converter for under $20), but I'm not sure if the charger would work properly with 50Hz power found overseas.

I need to contact the manufacturer about this one...

-Vinnie

[Vinnie R.]

Doug,

Yes the power would drop, but your speakers are really efficient!

I believe in theory, a speaker that is 8 ohms and 94dB would play about as loud as a 16 ohm speaker that is 97dB (the plus 3dB in sensitivity requires half the power, and the doubling of ohms requires twice the power, so they should cancel out).  

I need to look into this.  The Tripath may not like an impedance greater than 8 ohms.  I believe the external LC filter output filter is optimized for 4 to 8 ohms.  Let me do some research...

-Vinnie

Doug,

After speaking with Tripath, it appears that you can use speakers that have an impedance of 16 ohms.  However, they mentioned that the frequency response tends to curve upward more steeply at around 20kHz when you use a higher impedance speaker.  I'm not sure how noticeable this would be, but it may be worth a try.

-Vinnie

[doug s.]

Doug,

After speaking with Tripath, it appears that you can use speakers that have an impedance of 16 ohms.  However, they mentioned that the frequency response tends to curve upward more steeply at around 20kHz when you use a higher impedance speaker.  I'm not sure how noticeable this would be, but it may be worth a try.

-Vinnie

interesting - i'd be curious what the frequency response looks like from 20khz to 30khz; these speakers are ribbons, & have decent extension...

thanks,

doug s.

[Vinnie R.]

Doug,

After speaking with Tripath, it appears that you can use speakers that have an impedance of 16 ohms.  However, they mentioned that the frequency response tends to curve upward more steeply at around 20kHz when you use a higher impedance speaker.  I'm not sure how noticeable this would be, but it may be worth a try.

-Vinnie

interesting - i'd be curious what the frequency response looks like from 20khz to 30khz; these speakers are ribbons, & have decent extension...

thanks,

doug s.

Doug,

While Tripath told me that the TA2024 would be fine with a 16ohm load, they do not have any frequency response graphs to offer that show above 20kHz.  

I will email their engineering departement to see if they can provide me this information.  I'm sure they have the simulation software and a software model of the chip.    

Even with a peak in the 20kHz - 30kHz range when using 16ohm speakers, I wonder if one could actually hear this increase since it is way up there in frequency.

-Vinnie

[doug s.]

Doug,

While Tripath told me that the TA2024 would be fine with a 16ohm load, they do not have any frequency response graphs to offer that show above 20kHz.  

I will email their engineering departement to see if they can provide me this information.  I'm sure they have the simulation software and a software model of the chip.    

Even with a peak in the 20kHz - 30kHz range when using 16ohm speakers, I wonder if one could actually hear this increase since it is way up there in frequency.

-Vinnie

vinnie, if the amp was still flat at 20khz into a 16 ohm load, & started a rise from *that* point, then i think it would be ok.  do you think the amp is making ~2.5w at that load? i'm power-hungry - i'd sure like at least 5 watts!  

thanks,

doug s.

[Vinnie R.]

vinnie, if the amp was still flat at 20khz into a 16 ohm load, & started a rise from *that* point, then i think it would be ok.  do you think the amp is making ~2.5w at that load? i'm power-hungry - i'd sure like at least 5 watts!  

thanks,

doug s.

Doug,

Tripath metioned to me that the peak above 20kHz using 16 ohm speakers can be corrected by changing the values of the caps in the output filter.  I am still waiting on more detailed info, but the amp should be flat to approx. 20k with 16 ohms.  And yes, at 16 ohms, you should be seeing ~2.5W.  Maybe your speakers have lower impedance than 16 ohms in the bass frequencies?  For example, maybe at 50-60 Hz, the impedance is around 6 or 8 ohms.  If this were the case, then you will have at least 5 watts where it really counts...for BASS!  

As you probably know, a speaker's impedance varies with frequency.  They usually post the approx. average impedance.  

-Vinnie

[Vinnie R.]

All,

I have a webpage for the Clari-T-Amp up and running :

http://www.geocities.com/vinnie822

Here you will find a detailed product description, ordering info, as well as a FAQ section (which I will add Q+A's to as I get questions).

Just X out the annoying pop up that you get  . I don't plan to use geocites forever  

Again, I really appreciate everyones support and feedback!

-Vinnie

[tex-amp]

I don't think it's that cheap, considering the amp was only $30 before mods, but hey. I'm not knocking Mr. Rossi's design or effort or anything. I'm sure he did do a ton of hard work with the T-Amps; I just can't personally pay $400 for something that was only $30 to start off with. Keep up the great work Vinnie.

I had the same thought until I looked what a 12v batttery and charger cost.  I'd guess the material costs are over $100.  Add his labor and that is a pretty small and reasonable mark up in the audio world.

[Vinnie R.]

I don't think it's that cheap, considering the amp was only $30 before mods, but hey. I'm not knocking Mr. Rossi's design or effort or anything. I'm sure he did do a ton of hard work with the T-Amps; I just can't personally pay $400 for something that was only $30 to start off with. Keep up the great work Vinnie.

I had the same thought until I looked what a 12v batttery and charger cost.  I'd guess the material costs are over $100.  Add his labor and that is a pretty small and reasonable mark up in the audio world.

All,

It is true that material costs exceed $100, but it is the labor to do all the surface-mount mods, drilling, wiring and soldering, testing, packing, shipping, etc. that brings the cost up.  My goal is to send out units that work perfectly and that will last a long time, so I need to put a little extra time into listening and testing.  

I just wanted to thanks everyone for their support during this "proto-build."  I have found it to be most challenging mainly because I put in on avg. over 10 hours a day for my real job     But I love this hobby and enjoy the exchange of information and experiences with everyone.    

-Vinnie

[doug s.]

hi vinnie,

thanks for all the info.  i have another question.    is it possible to configure your amp to run off a non-battery-operated 12v source?  with excellent lab-grade power supplies (such as lambda, hewlwtt packard, etc), awailable on ebay for literally pennies on the dollar, this may be a wiable alternative for those that like to keep the tunes on all day.  i have used a $2k hp power supply (which i got for ~$100), to great effect on my turntable...  could an amp be configured to be an *either-or* amp, w/choice of battery or grid power?

alternatively, is it possible to run the clari-t with the charger *on*?

regards,

doug s.