Tripath Battery Powered Audiophile Amp: Initial Impressions

geofstro · « **Reply #40 on:** 24 Nov 2004, 07:27 pm »

Nice find Chairguy. Who's going to be the first to try it out?

geoff

JLM · « **Reply #41 on:** 24 Nov 2004, 11:33 pm »

geoff,

Sonic fidelity/enjoyment of the amps tested were in opposite order of how well they did on the warble test.

The Decware amp took top honors for build quality, full bass (duh), musical (without syrup), and good dynamics. Typical Decware sound (fast, not overly warm or lush, quiet, accurate, detailed, with great imaging). Not your typical tube amp!

The JVC improved during break-in (as others have stated) with some of the tube midrange magic of the Decware and got just plan stupid good for the price.

The chip amp was very detailed without sounding transistory and had the best dynamics. No real warmth, but very clean. Had big power supply hum and RF problems (was homegrown).

My 6 year old Rotel is the workhorse of the group. Pulled the load best, but ended up in last place.

geofstro · « **Reply #42 on:** 26 Nov 2004, 07:44 am »

JLM,

Thanks for such a candid assessment.

Have you thought of trying the homegrown amp with a battery? It might get rid of those RFI and hum problems and provide a taste of what Vinnie is offering.

geoff

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #43 on:** 26 Nov 2004, 02:57 pm »

Quote from: audiojerry

I don't expect it to deliver the power, but I'd like to see if it could handle an 8 ohm load with 87-88db speakers if I used at low volume in a small den.

AJ,

As long as you are not looking for loud volume levels, the Clari-T-Amp should be fine with your 87-88 dB speakers. It can drive down to 4 ohm loads w/o a problem...

I am currently using 90dB 6 ohm speakers in a "medium" sized room and it provides plenty of volume. I believe I will get more bass impact when I change to 95 dB speakers, like the Omegas

-Vinnie

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #44 on:** 26 Nov 2004, 03:05 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy

Hey, I totally spaced on this novel, portable, battery powered transport I found digging a while back available to all of us at a very down-to-earth price.....

http://www.dynainternational.com/dv-gd1000e.html

TCG,

Good find!

This low-cost player probably uses a switch-mode power supply (even if you use battery) to provide the various voltage levels required for all its functionality (1.8V, 2.5V, 3.3V, 5V, and there are probably others)...

Still, for $59, it is worth a try to find out if it provides a decent spdif coax output signal for a dac. I like how is has a remote, is portable, and provides a digital output. Who knows, it may even be tweakable

-Vinnie

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #45 on:** 26 Nov 2004, 04:38 pm »

I'm thinking of trying out the little Sungale, too.

Typically, I've found top-mount loaders to be more stable (coherent sounding, etc...less jitter perhaps?) than the front loaders.....most of which are undoubtedly done to appease folks in their home. Or, at least, top loaders offer more stability for less cash, I've found. This is, of course, a generality, but seems to play out in general.

The Sungale even has HDCD processing....a way of gently improving cheap CDP's with the filter processing of HDCD (and dang rare, too). Again, a generality, but a promising feature.

The little CDP/DVD may even be half decent run right into the Clari-T if you set it up on some kinda' isolation device(s).

I do believe I am talking myself into buying it again...something I talked myself out of a couple months back. Buy.com was selling these for $49.99 with free shipping a couple months ago, but now no more (they carry other Sungale products, tho). I think the intended market for these, auto travelers that already have a screen available to them, is quite limited and not worthy of carrying the product, but just right for us battery-lovin' audiophools

JLM · « **Reply #46 on:** 26 Nov 2004, 10:10 pm »

geoff,

I've thought a great deal about battery Tripaths or Vinnies battery/modded SI. And for more money there's a couple of very intriging 10 wpc amps currently out there, Final Music 6 (battery powered chip amp), and the class A Nelson F1.

But my speakers are 90 dB/w/m (not the typical high efficiency single driver speaker). Even though as a single driver/transmission line design is relatively easy to drive, the numbers are telling me no go. That said, the Decware Torii integrated tube amp I tried was only 12 wpc and seemed to have plenty of power, YMMV, any clipping would be tube friendly.

pekar · « **Reply #47 on:** 27 Nov 2004, 04:22 am »

Here's a couple more portables with spdif outs.
These are all actually DVD players.
Innovatek MK-198A Portable $79
Coby dvd 707 $70
Benq DVDGEM $119
The Benq takes 6 volts, comes with an AC adaptor. I have one of these, that came for free with a projector. I've seen this sell for $59.99 new on EBAY.
I think ideally a cd only unit would be best, as my BENQ turns a LOT of current into heat.
Another possibility is hacking a Cyberhome CH-DVD300, I think these are 12 volts inside. They are only about $38 at Target.

pekar · « **Reply #48 on:** 27 Nov 2004, 11:59 am »

Amazon has the Koss DVP2161 for 37.99 "while supplies last"
It has a toslink out.
*edit* This says it has an AC adaptor. It's likely that it could be used on DC with the right adaptor.

also I wanted to note that the cyberhome doesn't have an lcd display., which can be a PITA.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #49 on:** 28 Nov 2004, 02:30 pm »

All,

I hope everyone in the USA enjoyed a happy Thanksgiving weekend. My wife and I will be returning back home from her parents this evening. I ate too much

Here is a status update of the Clari-T-Amps:

--I have 10 enclosures all machined with jacks installed

--I have 6 of the 10 boards fully modded and ready for installation

This week I plan to finish modding the remaining 4 boards, and then begin installing them into the 10 enclosures. I then will test each unit and battery charger to make sure everything is working 100%

I am hoping to post them on Audiogon by the end of the week. Again, I currently am only working on 10 units, but I have been receiving even more emails expressing interest to buy. I have saved all emails and to be fair, I will be emailing those interested in the order in which they emailed me.

Depending on how people enjoy these ten units, I will then decide to take on a larger batch (maybe 25), and most likely try to get some help to speed up the process. I might even try to start up a formal business and work on new products to complement the Clari-T-Amp. It is going to be difficult because I already work 10 hour days during the week. We'll see how it goes...

I really appreciate everyone's patience and interest! I can't wait to get feedback from those who purchase the Clari-T. While this has been more work than I thought it would be, it has also been a lot of fun and educational for me

Regards,

Vinnie

null · « **Reply #50 on:** 30 Nov 2004, 01:24 am »

Hey! Just a question about the Clari-T amps. Out of curiosity, why do they cost so much? ($399 USD) Is is because of the case, or mods??

I'm afraid they are quite much more than I am willing to pay, but I am sure they are great and I hope others enjoy them!

geofstro · « **Reply #51 on:** 30 Nov 2004, 08:18 am »

If I just do a rough calculation in my head of the cost of the parts, although I don't know the value of the case, connectors or passive components it's obvious to me they wouldn't total much less than the asking price. Taking into consideration Vinnies work in putting it all together, not to mention having the idea in the first place and that it's not unreasonable for him to make some margin, I think the price is very reasonable.

If you were to buy one of the high value digital amps touted around here, such as the Teac, Panny or JVC the mods alone would come to around this figure, plus you've got to add the original cost of the stock amp.

Additionally, going by Dmasons' comments you'd be getting a sound that may go well beyond what many amps touted as "high-end' can achieve. (Dmason is our resident digital amp guru, amongst other things)

geoff

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #52 on:** 30 Nov 2004, 12:37 pm »

Quote from: null

Hey! Just a question about the Clari-T amps. Out of curiosity, why do they cost so much? ($399 USD) Is is because of the case, or mods??

I'm afraid they are quite much more than I am willing to pay, but I am sure they are great and I hope others enjoy them!

Yes, a large percentage of the Clari-T-Amp's cost is associated with the intensive labor. I implement a lot of surface-mount modifications to the amp board, which are very tricky and time consuming. All wiring between the battery, board, and to the RCAs, binding posts, switch, LED, is all done by hand without connectors in the signal path. I also have to machine the enclosure to accomodate the RCAs, Binding Posts, Volume, LED, switch, etc. I am a very meticulous worker and I prefer spend a little extra time in making sure everything is perfect.

I also have to test the unit to verify its performance, and verify that the battery and charger work properly (charges correctly, maintains its charge during use, etc).

And yes, I have the parts cost for the T-amp, battery, charger, as well as the enclosure, i/o connectors, knob, LED, etc. I also have to spend time keeping up with answering questions, ordering parts, handling orders, pack n' shipping, and all that fun stuff

I admit, it is a little more work than I thought it would be. I'm still finishing up my first batch of 10 units

That are coming out great

audiojerry · « **Reply #53 on:** 30 Nov 2004, 01:40 pm »

Vinnie, don't be put off by feeling you need to justify your price. It's a free market where the seller can set whatever price he likes, and the buyer can decide if it's fair or not. You could set a price of $1k or $2k, and the only justification needed is whether or not buyers will pay that price.

I think it's great that enthusiastic and talented AC members like you are taking the initiative of trying to provide a unique product to our small circle of members.

I hope you have great success, and I'll be following the progress of this intriguing upgrade. Maybe it wasn't intentional, but I think Dmason has helped to create very high expectations for this component. As the units go out, I'm looking forward to reading member feedback and reviews.
Who knows, maybe you will have to charge $2k just to keep the demand under control, and all those owners who got it so cheap will be feeling very smug.

Dmason · « **Reply #54 on:** 30 Nov 2004, 03:46 pm »

My initial expectations were guarded; my hopes were high. The amp keeps getting better and better as all the components, particularly the Tri-chip, burn in. The combination of goodies in something like a battery digital amp could actually represent the best compromise of all.

I think expense is pretty relative here. For starts, ALOT of people pay multiples of $400 to get a few good watts of sonic ambrosia. This amp has something else in that bottle: Lightning. For comparison, the only other battery power audiophool amp I can think of is of similar power, is the Final Lab Music 6, an excellent amp, and should be for the $4,000 people pay to own it.

I also know of two Uber design houses, one tweaks and the other designs speakers, and both use battery powered megabuck amps as their in house reference.

I honestly believe that something like this represents the possibility of a paradigm shift, in the availability of non-tube lower powered amps for use with good speakers of good sensitivity, combining speed with resolution. There is a groundswell movement in this direction, and now there are more choices. This approach makes some high power/low sensitivity pairings sound just plain constipated.

lcrim · « **Reply #55 on:** 1 Dec 2004, 12:20 am »

Vinnie or Dr. Dan:
I was wondering about the input voltage necessary to achieve full output with the amp. I have a Decware Select in the bedroom system and using analog with it required a lot of gain to get a MM cart output up to the 2 volts that the Zen needs for full output. After some screw ups I now have 40 dB gain in the phono section and another 20 dB in the preamp and the gain knob still gets closer to 12 o'clock playing vinyl than it ever does w/ the CD player. A one box player or a DAC tend to be around 2 volts. Do you guys have any idea where the Clari-T specs in this area?

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #56 on:** 1 Dec 2004, 05:41 pm »

Quote from: lcrim

Vinnie or Dr. Dan:
I was wondering about the input voltage necessary to achieve full output with the amp. I have a Decware Select in the bedroom system and using analog with it required a lot of gain to get a MM cart output up to the 2 volts that the Zen needs for full output. After some screw ups I now have 40 dB gain in the phono section and another 20 dB in the preamp and the gain knob still gets closer to 12 o'clock playing vinyl than it ever does w/ the CD player. A one box player or a DAC tend to be around 2 volts. Do you guys have any idea where the Clari-T specs in this area?

Hi Larry,

I tweaked the Clari-T-Amp using a source whose output voltage is 2 Vrms.
The shunt-mode volume control only acutually outputs 5/6 of the source voltage to the Tripath IC (50k/(10k+50k), whose gain I set to 12 (per the Tripath datasheet).

Using my 2 Vrms source, there are some CDs that can probably drive the Clari-T into clipping if the volume is maxed out. I've used a portable cdp whose max headphone output is 1V, and with most CDs, it reached full output. There were a few that could have been a little louder, but the sensitivity of your speakers come into play, as well as your room size.

I believe Dan Mason is using a SN Dac, and it's output voltage is a little less that 2V (maybe 1.8V ?).

Remember, the Tripath 2024 puts out a very clean 5.5 watts into 8 ohms. Above that, the distortion curve rises very quickly.

Regards,

Vinnie

JoshK · « **Reply #57 on:** 1 Dec 2004, 07:10 pm »

I got a NEC 3xp Multispin top loading cd-rom drive (on ebay for $10) that uses a 12v wallwart. I can't remember if it is ac or dc off hand. But maybe that would be powerable from a 12V SLA. Just another thought on what to use for transport. It is a damn good trasnport btw.

doug s. · « **Reply #58 on:** 1 Dec 2004, 08:49 pm »

Quote from: null

Hey! Just a question about the Clari-T amps. Out of curiosity, why do they cost so much? ($399 USD) Is is because of the case, or mods??

I'm afraid they are quite much more than I am willing to pay, but I am sure they are great and I hope others enjoy them!

cost so much?!?

this thing is CHEAP!!! i guess one man's ceiling is another man's floor...

one thing i'm wondering about, vinnie - i am presently using speakers that are quite efficient - 97db/1w/1m. *but*, they're 14 ohms nominal, w/actual range between 10 ohms & 18 ohms. wouldn't this amp's power drop considerably, from its rating into 8 ohm, when driving a 14 ohm load?

thanks,

doug s.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #59 on:** 2 Dec 2004, 04:32 pm »

Quote from: doug s.

cost so much?!? this thing is CHEAP!!! i guess one man's ceiling is another man's floor...

one thing i'm wondering about, vinnie - i am presently using speakers that are quite efficient - 97db/1w/1m. *but*, they're 14 ohms nominal, w/actual range between 10 ohms & 18 ohms. wouldn't this amp's power drop considerably, from its rating into 8 ohm, when driving a 14 ohm load?

thanks,

doug s.

Doug,

Yes the power would drop, but your speakers are really efficient!

I believe in theory, a speaker that is 8 ohms and 94dB would play about as loud as a 16 ohm speaker that is 97dB (the plus 3dB in sensitivity requires half the power, and the doubling of ohms requires twice the power, so they should cancel out).

I need to look into this. The Tripath may not like an impedance greater than 8 ohms. I believe the external LC filter output filter is optimized for 4 to 8 ohms. Let me do some research...

-Vinnie