[JohnR]

I'm thinking maybe it's time to buy an actual Windows laptop (instead of using VMWare on my Macs).

Top of my list so far is the 14" Lenovo Yoga 710 - http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/yoga/700-series/yoga-710-14/

Pros:
- About the right size (I'd prefer slightly smaller but this is fine)
- Decently speedy processor (i5-6200U)
- User-upgradable RAM and SSD
- Decent screen resolution - not Retina but 1920x1080 is OK (157 ppi according to this site)
- Touchscreen and "yoga" opens up interesting possibilities for e.g. Roon when not being used for 'real' work
- Price is OK (not looking to spend $thousands)
- Can inspect in person at store (haven't done so yet)

Cons:
- Haven't found any yet

I know little about actual Windows machines, so I thought I should ask here: would anyone know of "cons" that I have missed? Alternatives?

Thank you

[Odal3]

 I got an early version of a Lenovo Yoga so it is not the same one as you are looking at.

I thought all the different modes would be very useful but it turned out I rarely use them. The one problem with the older version I have is that the power is throttled when in the tent mode. There has also been some slow down and driver issues when upgraded to windows 10. Hopefully this has now been fixed for the newer versions but you may want to check it out.

Here is for example a thread talking about some of the issues:
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-Yoga-Series-Notebooks/Yoga-2-Pro-Tablet-Mode-Extremely-Slow-on-Win-10/td-p/2136879

Other than that its been holding up OK over a few years. I really like the feel of the keyboard.

[zybar]

John,

We have 4 Yoga laptops ranging in age from 3+ years old to purchased a few months ago.

All have worked well and we haven't had any technical issues.

My wife generally uses it as a big tablet, while my sons and I mostly use it as a traditional laptop.  Use of the touch screen varies depending on application. 

I would definitely buy Lenovo again, but I don't think it would be a Yoga due to not needing the other modes. 

One last thing to really think about is the touch screen option.  How important is that to you?  It adds to the initial cost and will make fixing a cracked or broken screen much more expensive.

George

[srb]

I can't speak to the Yoga 710, but my several year old Lenovo touch laptop has left me feeling cold.

While other manufacturers readily provided Windows 10 drivers, Lenovo failed to do so and the W10 upgrade and updates installs an Intel display driver that both disables the brightness control and the sleep function.  I've already had to manually roll back the driver to the original a half dozen times until I got tired of that and had to disable all driver updates.

The backlit keyboard lets more light through the gaps between the keys than it does actually illuminating the keytops and the battery life seems to be quite a bit less compared to other 14" i5 laptops.

While all of this may be peculiar to my particular model, I've now crossed Lenovo off my buy list and in the future would buy a better designed and supported Dell or HP rather than try to save a few bucks.

Steve

[JohnR]

Thank you three for the great feedback. To be honest it would take some doing for me to buy a Dell, given my past experiences (in the corporate environment, you can call someone and get the motherboard replaced next day, not so easy for a private buyer I think).

[Odal3]

Just curious: What are you planning to use the windows machine for? Is this to compleyely replace the macs or is it only to use it for the programs you use with Wmware?

[Doublej]

Cons - It's Windows! Viruses, malware and the like are more easily caught. You'll find a dearth of applications that come with Windows. But there is plenty of freeware out there to make up for it.

The good news is you get to pretty much specify what you want (screen size, resolution, etc) and then you'll find a few to many brands and models to choose from at all different price points.

If you want three year in home service you can definitely get it in a Dell (or HP or Lenovo) You'll just need to choose a business class model and pay the extra $$ for three year in home service.

In consumer class machines I have had poor experience with HPs (motherboards tend to die after a year or two) and good experience with Dell. I've never owned an Asus but they have some intriguing models.

I have no experience with Lenovo consumer class machines but I am currently using T500 from 2008. It's been upgraded from Vista to Windows 7 to Windows 10.

When shopping pay attention to the generation of Intel processor. There are plenty of new models out there with older generation Intel chipsets. It may not matter to you. That's how some of the manufacturers keep these things so darn inexpensive. The use of relatively low resolution screens 1366x768 on these machines helps keep the price low as well.

The Dell XPS 13 is a nice machine. What about the Microsoft Surface Pro 4?

[JohnR]

Thank you for the additional suggestions. I'll be going to a store to have hands-on on some machines soon.

Just curious: What are you planning to use the windows machine for? Is this to compleyely replace the macs or is it only to use it for the programs you use with Wmware?

Just for the programs that I currently run on VMWare. Almost everything works fine on VMWare, although sometimes seems to work the CPU pretty hard. But on my laptop I'm not easily able to run Win 10 (because Win10 requires the latest version of VMWare Fusion, which won't run on OSX 10.8, which I want to leave on my laptop because one particular program I use a lot doesn't work on Yosemite - well it does but it's been completely rewritten and lost some key features ). So running Win10 means booting Yosemite off an external drive in order run Win10 in a VM. Not very convenient.

Anyway, long story short, the VMWare workaround got me a long way for many years but in terms of computer upgrades this seems at the moment the best thing to do. I don't really want a third machine but another thought is that this would be a good way for me to get to grips with Windows again rather than just using only when I have to. Because I think that perhaps I won't be buying Apple laptops in future, when this rMBP dies - turned off by non-upgradability and Apple's cost of storage. And Win10 now has a full Linux shell (haven't tried it yet....)

[JohnR]

Well, I went shopping. In two stores, amongst a plethora of boring ordinary laptops, one machine stood out from the rest... the Dell XPS 15. Suffice to say, these are not the Dells I remember And yep, over twice the price of where I started That would mean a complete switchover to Win10 for my laptop (rMBP would be sold to subsidize it), so I need to just try the Linux shell on Win10 and if that's fine then I think I can survive the change

Key specs are 3840x2160 screen, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, i7 processor. It doesn't do "yoga" but it does do touch, which I quite like at least at first blush, it seems like it's going to save some stress on right hand fingers. George I take your point about the cost of repair but I've never damaged a laptop screen (phones, yes - dropped from roof). And a local chain has it discounted right now.

Unlike many others, the screen takes up most of the space. There's still a "Dell" logo underneath - why do manufacturers do this, so annoying.

Also need to do some googling to check for reliability (maybe too early) and thermal/throttling issues.

[zybar]

John,

The Dell XPS 13 and 15 are outstanding and class leading.

Only negative is cost.

George

[JohnR]

So... following up on this after a long time, my needs for both native Windows and a portable device seem to have been met with a Microsoft Surface Pro 4

I'll start another thread in a few days with more, but so far I am really impressed. I didn't buy the MS keyboard/cover, just connected a wireless keyboard I already had via bluetooth.

[FullRangeMan]

W10 is a great system now, I suggest a desktop in case you dont need portable, your eyes have to be in pristine condition though.

[JohnR]

Hi Gustavo, thanks for the comment, I have another computer that I use on/as my desktop.

My eyes have not been pristine since a very young age. The modern age of retina screens that can be scaled to any desired resolution is a great help IMO.

[ctviggen]

I know you went to something else, but I use a Yoga as a small laptop to play movies and the like when we go on vacation.  The one I bought is a bit slow for power using (many open windows, etc.), but I rarely do that.  For serving videos, it's fine.

I also like the touchscreen, as it helps to not use the pad sometimes.